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12/27/2005 09:07:54 PM · #1 |
| It's just a question I've been asking myself. My scores have been steadly going up, However I feel that it's because I've been conforming to what the voters want not what I truly enjoy. I know I have said in the past I don't shoot for scores but I think I may have sub-consciously been undermined by the vote stats. Any thoughts? |
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12/27/2005 09:13:54 PM · #2 |
| I think you answered your own question. |
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12/27/2005 09:15:49 PM · #3 |
I think some get worse.
Lemme rephrase this-- some users get new equipment and expect their scores to go higher and they don't.
I know in my case that 3 out of my top 4 images are with my old camera, including both ribbons.
I recently looked at stare_at_the_suns profile and noted his top image was with his old camera, that he now doesn't think is just a relic anymow.
And there are alot more examples of this.
It's not knocking anyone or anything, but it happens..
And before you bash me, I know that there is more to upgrading your gear than trying to achieve ribbons, I'm just giving my opinion on a "Challenge Result" Point of view..
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12/27/2005 09:18:13 PM · #4 |
| I've heard it said that you either "have the eye for photography" or you don't. I've learned that right now, I definately don't have the eye. So can it be learned or is it just something you either have or you don't? I've wondered if I'll ever start learning how to compose pictures better by seeing what others keep doing. Photography is an art and I keep thinking I can have all the equipment but that won't make me an artist. Is there hope??? |
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12/27/2005 09:18:52 PM · #5 |
I think that I personally have gotten a lot better since I joined - and I haven't changed my equipment at all (unfortunately, or fortunately - depending on your perspective!). LOL I'm still using my little P&S Gateway, and sure I'd LOVE to get a better camera, but I still have a lot to learn regardless of equipment, so I figure I'm better off working on technique, lighting, processing, and marketability first...
Just my 2 cents... :-) |
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12/27/2005 09:20:58 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by SJCarter:
I think that I personally have gotten a lot better since I joined - and I haven't changed my equipment at all (unfortunately, or fortunately - depending on your perspective!). LOL I'm still using my little P&S Gateway, and sure I'd LOVE to get a better camera, but I still have a lot to learn regardless of equipment, so I figure I'm better off working on technique, lighting, processing, and marketability first...
Just my 2 cents... :-) |
Dont ever upgrade!!
Just kidding, like I said its just a trend I see in here.. |
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12/28/2005 03:20:59 AM · #7 |
I think that dpc gets people using their cameras more in a more creative way thus you are learning all your manual settings and what to do in lots of differnt situations so I think you do get better at using your camera if nothing else...
edit any sp? in here I really can not think str8 yet so sp has gone out the window
Message edited by author 2005-12-28 03:24:20. |
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12/28/2005 03:22:16 AM · #8 |
Better to the voters or better to yourself is the main question.
In 2004, I was out to please the voters:
2nd place overall with 9 ribbons: 2004 stats
In 2005, I went out to find me and please me first:
53rd place overall with 2 ribbons: 2005 stats
New equipment and a shift in what I wanted to try had a huge effect, and am much happier on a personal level with my 2005 entries than my 2004 entries.
Don't be afraid to venture away from a winning recipe and try new things, experiment, find a niche or whatever it is that makes you happy. This all goes away when the power goes off (DPC), but you have to find what moves YOU in order to want to pick up your camera and continue developing yourself as an artist. |
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12/28/2005 03:51:16 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Better to the voters or better to yourself is the main question.
In 2004, I was out to please the voters:
2nd place overall with 9 ribbons: 2004 stats
In 2005, I went out to find me and please me first:
53rd place overall with 2 ribbons: 2005 stats
New equipment and a shift in what I wanted to try had a huge effect, and am much happier on a personal level with my 2005 entries than my 2004 entries.
Don't be afraid to venture away from a winning recipe and try new things, experiment, find a niche or whatever it is that makes you happy. This all goes away when the power goes off (DPC), but you have to find what moves YOU in order to want to pick up your camera and continue developing yourself as an artist. |
Good advice. :-) |
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12/28/2005 03:55:44 AM · #10 |
what you said is correct i am trying to implement it. My entery for oops-ii will be punished heavily and i wouldn't be surprised if i got 3.8 finally, but i am submitting it, since i like it and to me it fits the challenge.
Originally posted by BradP:
Better to the voters or better to yourself is the main question.
In 2004, I was out to please the voters:
2nd place overall with 9 ribbons: 2004 stats
In 2005, I went out to find me and please me first:
53rd place overall with 2 ribbons: 2005 stats
New equipment and a shift in what I wanted to try had a huge effect, and am much happier on a personal level with my 2005 entries than my 2004 entries.
Don't be afraid to venture away from a winning recipe and try new things, experiment, find a niche or whatever it is that makes you happy. This all goes away when the power goes off (DPC), but you have to find what moves YOU in order to want to pick up your camera and continue developing yourself as an artist. |
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12/28/2005 04:04:45 AM · #11 |
I think in the broader sense members of this site do get 'better' if it's part of their overall diet of photography information. If this was the only place you got photography info you might be prone to 'eye candy' disease.
I'd learnt some interesting tid-bits on this site since I joined, and I'd like to think my participation in the forums and comment process (should do more...) has helped some other people.
My joining this site co-incides with my decision to 'get back into' photography as my major hobby. I've improved technically (exposure, focus etc) since then as I got up to speed with digital, and then dSLR's. But I don't think I see any better. Maybe I do, but it's not leaping out at grabbing me yet.
As for my actual photography getting better? Dunno. My all time favourite photo to this day is one that is printed 30x20" and hanging on the wall which was taken in about 1993 with my trusty old OM4ti and Zeiss prime 24mm M42 lens using an external spot meter.
Thinking of that, I'll find a small print and put it in the individual photos forum and see what people think...
Cheers, Chris H. |
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12/28/2005 04:14:20 AM · #12 |
the competitiveness of the challenges does have a great bearing on ones improvement looking and analysing the entries shows how others use things like selective focus and exposure and composition to best effect.
The forums are a wealth of information to be gained
however if your like me and are a last gasp entry merchant you'll pay the price !!!!!!...LOL
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12/28/2005 04:16:01 AM · #13 |
DPC has to make you better - of that's what you're looking for. I crave reading Photographer's Comments on entries and it bugs the s__t out of me if they don't take the time to do that. It's a serious pet-peeve, it just smacks too much of me me me. Vote for me, love me, laud me, spend time with my photo, understand me, but I don't have time for you by sharing my secrets.
Anyways, back to the point of the thread. for those who love the art and want to be masters at it, they will grow in skill and execution because that's what they are soaking up. Equally, there are recreational members who like taking photos and enjoy being part of the community and they will grow too but in a different way.
So I would say, whatever you personally want out of DPC you will get.
Brett
Message edited by author 2005-12-28 04:28:25. |
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12/28/2005 04:23:38 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by kiwinick:
however if your like me and are a last gasp entry merchant you'll pay the price !!!!!!...LOL |
I'm tempted to burst into song about the three amikiwis, but that would spoil everyone's evening :)
I thought your comment was an opportune time to point out to others a weird consequence of time zones. We are 18hrs ahead of EST and so we only have 6 days instead of seven to do challenges which might explain why were are last-minute a lot of the time. The missing day does seem to make a difference.
When the Open Challenge rolls over at midnight Tuesday, it is already 6pm Wednesday here in NZ when we get to see the challenge subject. So we don't get Wednesday to shoot at the beginning.
Trouble is, we don't get the day back at the other end either. The camera date/time must not be later than midnight Tuesday so we don't get Wednesday to shoot at the end either.
Brett
Message edited by author 2005-12-28 04:26:26. |
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12/28/2005 04:58:27 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by KiwiPix:
Originally posted by kiwinick:
however if your like me and are a last gasp entry merchant you'll pay the price !!!!!!...LOL |
I'm tempted to burst into song about the three amigkiwis, but that would spoil evetone's evening :)
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Think I should change my name to kiwisue! LOL
Yep, we do get better. Where else can you enter an image and have such a widespread audience vote anonymously on it. You may not get comments, but in a way the scores are the comment. Sometimes if I want more guidance as to where I got it completely wrong I'll put my shot in the Individual critique forum.......but to be honest, generally by the end of each challenge I know what I missed! LOL
dpc for me has been a catalyst. It's made/helped me look at what I do, ask for help when I need it (and the help is always there), made me more focused as to what I want to achieve, the direction I want to go (sometimes the passion isn't enough) .....I have more confidence in myself, my work, my worth. I have a long way to go, but I'm beginning to see where that might be.
dpc inspires me....the images we see everyday in the challenges are incredible! Not just the winning entries, but sit back one day and go through the pages in a challenge and really look at the shots. Imaginative and creative....there are so many that are fantastic!! If you need more inspiration head over and browse some of the ports.
dpc is an international community, people of all ages, levels of talents, equipment, philosophical beliefs. We get to meet (virtually), make friends, have roaring debates, raging arguements, support each other in times of joy....in need.
sue
ps Brett. With challenge entries the SC takes into account the different time zones of users. We can take shots up to the rollover. I checked it out when I first joined.
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12/28/2005 04:58:33 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by KiwiPix:
Trouble is, we don't get the day back at the other end either. The camera date/time must not be later than midnight Tuesday so we don't get Wednesday to shoot at the end either.
Brett |
yet another kiwi here :)
you can shoot right up till 6pm New Zealand time (don't forget to allow posting time) as allowances are made for time zones... you have till the server time as showen at the bottom of every page rolls over to photograph/submit to challenges
just say your shot was made the day before on the upload page
I have been validated doing this
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12/28/2005 05:25:29 AM · #17 |
This site definitetly makes people better. Look at goodman for an example, sorry to pick on you Lesley but yours stood out recently to me after your recent ribbons. Personally I have improved heaps whether my scores show it or not. Lately I've gotten a small amount of comments on my shots but it only takes one comment (usually bad) to get what you need to improve on your next shot and the anonymous system here gives that better than anything else. I have done shots that I was planning on doing later but wouldn't have gotten around to much later and shots that I would have never done otherwise. I am now paying heaps more attention to detail (focus, backgroung clutter as well as composition) which I wouldn't have put so much effort into otherwise. I've also went to other sites to learn more as well as from books in order to get the blue. It's not the ribbon that counts, but it is a measure of your improvement and I've been having heaps of fun trying to get there.
Message edited by author 2005-12-28 05:34:02. |
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12/28/2005 05:41:53 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Firsty & Sue:
you can shoot right up till 6pm New Zealand time ... you have till the server time as showen at the bottom of every page rolls over to photograph/submit to challenges
Just say your shot was made the day before on the upload page
I have been validated doing this |
I used to think that we could not shoot on the Wednesday (of rollover our time). I think Sue is saying that we can, Firsty is saying we can't?
I'm confuzzled :)
Brett |
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12/28/2005 05:44:41 AM · #19 |
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12/28/2005 05:49:57 AM · #20 |
Anything that gets you out there shooting will make you better. The trick is not to get caught up in that eye candy state of mind. Or at least to not let it bleed over to the rest of your photography. I see a lot of NI shots make it to the top here, and some of them look very good at 640x640, but many would fail if the same editing techniques were used for say a large print or a magazine spread where crisp takes preference.
When I was a Lit student I remember hearing from my professors on numerous occasions "write for your audience" or "know your audience" and that is a s true for good photography as it is for good writing.
So has participating on DP improved my work? My technique to my knowledge can't have changed much, but being exposed to the work of the many talented members of this site has definitely been a positive influence. So yes.
Message edited by author 2005-12-28 05:50:36.
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12/28/2005 06:01:07 AM · #21 |
But i think for the people of our zone, the challenge is announced equally late. For example the challenge which has to end on 27th, ends here on 28th, so i guess total time for challenge for everybuddy is same.
Originally posted by KiwiPix:
Originally posted by Firsty & Sue:
you can shoot right up till 6pm New Zealand time ... you have till the server time as showen at the bottom of every page rolls over to photograph/submit to challenges
Just say your shot was made the day before on the upload page
I have been validated doing this |
I used to think that we could not shoot on the Wednesday (of rollover our time). I think Sue is saying that we can, Firsty is saying we can't?
I'm confuzzled :)
Brett |
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12/28/2005 06:33:15 AM · #22 |
yes, you can get better!
dpc offers you a number of ways to improve. one way is to vote and comment as much as possible; by learning to critique other's works, you should also be learning to turn that critical eye on your own work. the key is not to gauge your improvement by measuring your scores and comments, but how you feel about how your work stacks up against others.
another way is to participate in as many challenges as you can--without simply throwing in a piece of crap just to have an update button. the more you honestly practice the craft, the better you will get.
and lastly, take advantage of the galleries. spend time looking for the images that move you, then set out to try to replicate them. find a photographer whose work inspires you, and try to figure out why it does. then go out and shoot as if you were that person. |
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12/28/2005 06:43:36 AM · #23 |
Ever since I discovered dpchallenge my photography has improved.
This is not necessarily confirmed by my challenge scores but comments by my friends, family and website visitors do confirm improvement.
I also find myself thinking about possible shots, subjects, locations, composition, exposure, special effects etc.. more than I did before. Even when I'm not carrying a camera.
Because I'm only a registered member, I often find myself thinking in terms of 'basic rules', even when I'm not shooting for a challenge.
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12/28/2005 06:48:49 AM · #24 |
| I have been on DPC just about as long as anyone (Member since 8/2002) so I feel I could be a good example for the question of "Do DPC'ers get better. When I first began I was a novice like many who join. Take a look at some of my earlier pictures and then compare them to some more recent ones. Disregarding the fact that I have 4 ribbons this year alone compared to a total of 3 ribbons prior, I thinks one would agree that the overall photographic quality of my pictures has generally improved. I feel I owe this to a very large extent to what DPC has to offer to the individual who wishes to improve. Even after over 270 submissions I am still learning and I hope still improving. I am constantly seeing how I could have improved each one of the pictures I have submitted. I hope DPC will be around for a long time. |
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12/28/2005 08:59:06 AM · #25 |
[quote=KiwiPix] DPC has to make you better - of that's what you're looking for. I crave reading Photographer's Comments on entries and it bugs the s__t out of me if they don't take the time to do that. It's a serious pet-peeve, it just smacks too much of me me me. Vote for me, love me, laud me, spend time with my photo, understand me, but I don't have time for you by sharing my secrets.
I admit I don't make as many comments as I should. I haven't even entered or voted for nearly two months, because I wanted to take time to see what it was I was trying to do. Anyway, I do like looking at others portfolios and my main pet peeve is the same as yours, they don't share their secrets and techniques. I know people are looking at mine and since I write a lot of editing manuevers on my images, I do see people applying them to their images. I would like to see a lot more info on the images, because there are techniques I want to learn. Another thing is sharing something as simple as how you saved an image (display, 150dpi,resolution, etc.)
As to whether I have gotten better, don't know. I find frustration more than not, because I can't do alot of the things I see from the artists here. My scores seem to be better, and my percentage placement is generally higher, so I guess I have improved. However, I am having so much fun applying fine art techniques to my images that I am finding a whole nother style which I never fully explored. For me, the fine art applications to my photos make them much better than keeping them as pictures.
Message edited by author 2005-12-28 09:25:01. |
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