| Author | Thread |
|
|
12/15/2005 05:25:47 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by gi_joe05:
...if an image doesn't fit the challenge how can it win first place any the given challenge? |
Unless there are special rules requiring the photographer to do certain things (like the Rubber Duckie challenge), then it's the IMAGE that has to meet the challenge, not the photographer. There's no rule that says you MUST meet the challenge, so you're at the mercy of the voters in that regard. If the voters feel that the image conveys 4-5am, then it wouldn't matter if you took the shot at noon. For reference, check out this winner from the Orange challenge (the original was nearly monotone gray):
:-( |
The description on Orange doesn't say you have to take a picture of something orange, so if you legally adjust the colors in ps afterwards that meets the challenge. This challenge specified to take the picture between 4 and 5 AM.
Edited because I can't type.
Message edited by author 2005-12-15 17:26:58. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 05:26:41 PM · #27 |
"It's 4am somewhere."
What if my alarm was set to California time? FREE STUDY! lol
|
|
|
|
12/15/2005 05:27:50 PM · #28 |
I agree with many of you that this should have been a special rule...
As one who did get up before 4 am, I would feel cheated knowing the winner simply conveyed a "feeling" of that time. To me it is the same as taking a bus to the end of the marathon race. Yes, it looks just like you ran there, But the Challenge of the race ( or the early rising, in our case) was not met.
That said, I am not really a dnmc Nazi, but for me it is having integrity to play by the rules :)) |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 05:32:20 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by chaimelle:
The description on Orange doesn't say you have to take a picture of something orange |
Sure it did. The photographer did NOT compose a "shot where orange is the primary color," but he DID portray that in the entry.
Message edited by author 2005-12-15 17:32:48. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 05:34:55 PM · #30 |
| I don't understand why people become members (or users), look at a challenge topic and then try do their best to find a way to avoid meeting the challenge. To me, part of the idea of this site is to take a picture to meet a specific challenge. If it says use cheese, why not use cheese? If it says take a picture between 4 and 5 AM, why not get up and take the shot? Certainly be creative, but why not be creative within the challenge description? Yes, there are different ways to interpret things, but I am referring to the people who just don't want to be told what to take a picture of, or seem to delight in intentionally not meeting the challenge and then get upset because they get lower scores. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 05:35:18 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by gloda:
I thought that getting up at the specified time was as much part of the challenge as taking a great image. Good I had no school that morning. |
What I meant is a personal challenge. I couldn't care less what others did. It's like solving an enigma without googling up the answer. You'll feel rewarded because you know you did it.
|
|
|
|
12/15/2005 05:37:24 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by chaimelle:
The description on Orange doesn't say you have to take a picture of something orange |
Sure it did. The photographer did NOT compose a "shot where orange is the primary color," but he DID portray that in the entry. |
jejeje� We can get anal about this, and I'm sure they did on that shot, but the challenge did NOT say "shoot a picture of an orange subject", it just said to have orange the "primary color" of the shot. When you consider that one EXPECTS sunsets to go red-orange anyway, it seems to me that shot pretty well works for the challenge any way you slice it up :-)
R. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 05:38:51 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by gloda:
Originally posted by gloda:
I thought that getting up at the specified time was as much part of the challenge as taking a great image. Good I had no school that morning. |
What I meant is a personal challenge. I couldn't care less what others did. It's like solving an enigma without googling up the answer. You'll feel rewarded because you know you did it. |
Bingo! I was planning to enter this challenge actually, before I had my brilliant (but scoring 4.9) idea for "cheese"... But I liked the idea of seeing what I could find at 4 AM...
Robt. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 05:42:48 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
...the challenge did NOT say "shoot a picture of an orange subject" |
The challenge was to compose a shot where orange is the primary color. When the example I posted was composed, the primary color was gray. The point is that you have to convey meeting the challenge in the ENTRY (not necessarily the capture).
Message edited by author 2005-12-15 17:43:18. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 06:02:21 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by bear_music:
...the challenge did NOT say "shoot a picture of an orange subject" |
The challenge was to compose a shot where orange is the primary color. When the example I posted was composed, the primary color was gray. The point is that you have to convey meeting the challenge in the ENTRY (not necessarily the capture). |
What I want to know is, how can anyone "compose a shot where orange is the primary color"? It's an inherently impossible challenge: orange is not a primary color! ;-)
Originally posted by bear_music:
jejeje� We can get anal about this... |
Nordlys
Message edited by author 2005-12-15 18:03:18. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 06:30:25 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
The point is that you have to convey meeting the challenge in the ENTRY (not necessarily the capture). |
Here is where I think we all have to be creative, as long as the ENTRY suits the description it really doesn't matter what you did to the photo. DPC's scoring system is based on 2 things: The photo itself and the title... thats the only thing that matters and voters should be aware of the challenge requirements. Whenever a voter judges a photo as a valid entry, then the photo would get a good vote, else it will be hammered.
In this case I would say that taking a photo outside the timeframe specified might be a little more difficult because the photo itself has to convey the 4 - 5 AM feeling.
I don't think that having a winner that took the photo at a different time should be discouraging or considered cheating because if 200 or 300 voters thought that it might have been shot at the right time, then the ENTRY itself met the challenge and conveyed the right message.
To me photography as any other form of art is about messages and feelings. If the message and the feeling are met, it doesn't really matter if the 'manufacturing process' was actually what the viewer expected. Let's not worry about the process but about the photo itself.
Scalvert for instance has some truly great and complex processes that have only one purpose: A great photo, I know we all try to get a good shot despite the complexity of the photo. In this case a great photo should be considered as if it was taken at 4-5AM, everything else is creativity. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 06:34:01 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by chaimelle:
I don't understand why people become members (or users), look at a challenge topic and then try do their best to find a way to avoid meeting the challenge. To me, part of the idea of this site is to take a picture to meet a specific challenge. If it says use cheese, why not use cheese? If it says take a picture between 4 and 5 AM, why not get up and take the shot? Certainly be creative, but why not be creative within the challenge description? Yes, there are different ways to interpret things, but I am referring to the people who just don't want to be told what to take a picture of, or seem to delight in intentionally not meeting the challenge and then get upset because they get lower scores. |
I agree with this. The term "Thinking outside of the box" is such a played out term. While it does have it's place it's not the definition of being creative yet many people seem to think that's the definition of creativity these days. Being creative while thinking "inside" the box to me is a far more powerful asset to have and requires a lot more creativity than someone bound to little/no restrictions. In the real world there are lots of clients that won't give you that broad leeway so if this site is suppose to be a learning tool then working within restrictions should also be encouraged.
|
|
|
|
12/15/2005 06:36:23 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by patrinus:
DPC's scoring system is based on 2 things: The photo itself and the title... |
I know some might argue that the title is not an important element, others choose to ignore it on purpose and for those people the title would not be an important element... But the PHOTO itself is of course the most important thing. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 08:20:36 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by patrinus:
I think that if the photographer was able to create the 'illusion' of shooting at 4-5 AM that's it... in fact I have learned that photography is all about the looks (BIG LEARNING! haha) if some photographer is able to communicate a 4-5 feeling, ambient, or whatever then it really fits even if shot at noon. In other words, the message of the photo is more important than following the challenge description (I think this fits for every challenge, as long as the message complies with the description). It might be a little like 'thinking out of the box' and that is almost always very punished here... |
Amen |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 11:07:09 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
"It's 4am somewhere."
What if my alarm was set to California time? FREE STUDY! lol |
This is what I am thinking too. This challenge basicly equates to a free study because even if you did wake up between 4-5 am to take a picture the only thing you couldn't do is get any kind of daylight shots. There is nothing that says you couldn't get up between 4-5 and just go and do a studio shot. I think the only thing that is challenging with this one is the actual getting up that early and being able to function well enough to get a good shot within that hour time frame. I mean the challenge also says "This challenge may also be known as the "I can't believe I got up this early to take a photograph for a ^$&@*# challenge" challenge". With that and the part about setting your alarm and getting up there is nothing to imply that you should do a shot that "feels" like 4-5 am.
Personally, I don't think I am even going to vote on this challenge because I don't know how to do so fairly. |
|
|
|
12/15/2005 11:14:07 PM · #41 |
| I'm usually still up at 4am so I was just glad to have something to do. :) |
|
|
|
12/16/2005 01:08:34 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by fadedbeauty:
This is what I am thinking too. This challenge basicly equates to a free study because even if you did wake up between 4-5 am to take a picture the only thing you couldn't do is get any kind of daylight shots. There is nothing that says you couldn't get up between 4-5 and just go and do a studio shot. I think the only thing that is challenging with this one is the actual getting up that early and being able to function well enough to get a good shot within that hour time frame. I mean the challenge also says "This challenge may also be known as the "I can't believe I got up this early to take a photograph for a ^$&@*# challenge" challenge". With that and the part about setting your alarm and getting up there is nothing to imply that you should do a shot that "feels" like 4-5 am.
Personally, I don't think I am even going to vote on this challenge because I don't know how to do so fairly. |
No, it's not at all like a free study. You can't enter just anything you took during the challenge's timeframe. Your entry must convince the voters that it was taken between 4 and 5, regardless of whether it actually was. Posts right after the topic was announced pointed out that there was no mechanism of verifying when a shot was taken (no special rule) so it became evident that it was up to the voters to decide. Convince them that your shot looks like a 4-5 am image and you've met the challenge. If they are unconvinced your score will suffer, and rightfully so. IMHO, it's totally erroneous to say that the voters can't apply a standard to determine whether a shot meets the challenge. They can in every challenge that is not a free study. Indeed, the rules say they must.
On a slightly different tack, I think the people who did not get up in the wee hours to take their entry shot only cheated themselves. I think the Rosie Ruiz analogy is appropriate. And further, 4-5 am is a beautiful time of day to be up and about; primarily because the vast majority of people aren't. The photographers who didn't "Set your alarm, and take a picture between 4:00 and 5:00 AM." missed out on something wonderful that they seldom have such a good reason to experience. Please don't try to tell me about how you "think outside the box", or how creative you are, when you're too lazy and closed-minded to drag your buttocks out of the sack.
|
|
|
|
12/16/2005 01:14:03 AM · #43 |
| Maybe this would have been a good opportunity for people whose cameras have a date-stamp function to turn it on ... |
|
|
|
12/16/2005 01:26:00 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Maybe this would have been a good opportunity for people whose cameras have a date-stamp function to turn it on ... |
Another possibility would be that the Date/Time EXIF data in the jpeg entry not be stripped out as it is now. Then voters, if they wanted, could download the image and check the time for themselves, whether the camera had a date-stamp function or not.
Nordlys |
|
|
|
12/16/2005 01:31:04 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
No, it's not at all like a free study. You can't enter just anything you took during the challenge's timeframe. Your entry must convince the voters that it was taken between 4 and 5, regardless of whether it actually was. Posts right after the topic was announced pointed out that there was no mechanism of verifying when a shot was taken (no special rule) so it became evident that it was up to the voters to decide. Convince them that your shot looks like a 4-5 am image and you've met the challenge. If they are unconvinced your score will suffer, and rightfully so. IMHO, it's totally erroneous to say that the voters can't apply a standard to determine whether a shot meets the challenge. They can in every challenge that is not a free study. Indeed, the rules say they must.
On a slightly different tack, I think the people who did not get up in the wee hours to take their entry shot only cheated themselves. I think the Rosie Ruiz analogy is appropriate. And further, 4-5 am is a beautiful time of day to be up and about; primarily because the vast majority of people aren't. The photographers who didn't "Set your alarm, and take a picture between 4:00 and 5:00 AM." missed out on something wonderful that they seldom have such a good reason to experience. Please don't try to tell me about how you "think outside the box", or how creative you are, when you're too lazy and closed-minded to drag your buttocks out of the sack. |
Personally, I found 2 things, at this time of the morning my brain works differently, I did scope out the place I wanted to take a picture, or possible picture the day before and take pictures of it. But the next morning I went to the place and it had all changed, the lighting, the super clear air, after all I was functioning off a can of Mountian Dew. I personally can take pride no matter where I place I did what the challenge wanted, and I got great results. |
|
|
|
12/16/2005 01:42:48 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by MQuinn:
Personally, I found 2 things, at this time of the morning my brain works differently, I did scope out the place I wanted to take a picture, or possible picture the day before and take pictures of it. But the next morning I went to the place and it had all changed, the lighting, the super clear air, after all I was functioning off a can of Mountian Dew. I personally can take pride no matter where I place I did what the challenge wanted, and I got great results. |
Guess you could say you did the Dew dude.
I hope your integrity is rewarded with a high score.
|
|
|
|
12/16/2005 01:45:22 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Your entry must convince the voters that it was taken between 4 and 5, regardless of whether it actually was. Convince them that your shot looks like a 4-5 am image and you've met the challenge. If they are unconvinced your score will suffer, and rightfully so. |
Exactly! Now ignoring thread... |
|
|
|
12/16/2005 08:39:42 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Your entry must convince the voters that it was taken between 4 and 5, regardless of whether it actually was. Convince them that your shot looks like a 4-5 am image and you've met the challenge. If they are unconvinced your score will suffer, and rightfully so. |
and what a problem this presents for the photographer who creates the 'convincing' image...
is it better to let the viewers enjoy the image as it is, or, in the spirit of this site being an 'educational' site, is it better to do has shannon has done repeatedly, documenting how he convinced us to vote for his images? either way, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. i can hardly imagine what it was like for shannon the week of the nightbulb, the highs of getting great scores and comments, followed by weeks of unmitigated debates and complaints about how he did it.
i guess this will be no different than any other challenges; in the end, there will probably be a handful of people who are going to be upset and vocal about it, and then there will be everyone else. |
|
|
|
12/16/2005 09:10:27 AM · #49 |
Curious...I didn't think you could be selective on what EXIF data is kept with your JPG file. Isn't it either all or none? I've always seen the 'keep EXIF data' (or something similar) when saving my challenge entries using the advanced options available in PSP, but have never used it because I figured it would take away from the precious 150kb limit I need to stay within.
Originally posted by Nordlys:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Maybe this would have been a good opportunity for people whose cameras have a date-stamp function to turn it on ... |
Another possibility would be that the Date/Time EXIF data in the jpeg entry not be stripped out as it is now. Then voters, if they wanted, could download the image and check the time for themselves, whether the camera had a date-stamp function or not.
Nordlys |
|
|
|
|
12/16/2005 09:47:44 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Curious...I didn't think you could be selective on what EXIF data is kept with your JPG file. Isn't it either all or none? I've always seen the 'keep EXIF data' (or something similar) when saving my challenge entries using the advanced options available in PSP, but have never used it because I figured it would take away from the precious 150kb limit I need to stay within.
Originally posted by Nordlys:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Maybe this would have been a good opportunity for people whose cameras have a date-stamp function to turn it on ... |
Another possibility would be that the Date/Time EXIF data in the jpeg entry not be stripped out as it is now. Then voters, if they wanted, could download the image and check the time for themselves, whether the camera had a date-stamp function or not.
Nordlys |
|
I think this refers to the stripping of the EXIF data at time of upload, not at the time of saving the file on your computer. |
|
