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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> level the playing field
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Showing posts 1 - 25 of 28, (reverse)
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 12/08/2005 07:15:35 PM · #1
Since there are many people here that do not have SLR's, or have cameras that dont have manual settings (or dont know how to use them) we should try out an auto setting challenge. Just good ol' point and shoot.
 12/08/2005 07:16:31 PM · #2
Will never happen. The playing field is already pretty level IMO
 12/08/2005 07:22:13 PM · #3
Having the same thought I suggested a $15 Camera Challenge a little while back HERE

Don't know how many people wanna give up there dSLR's for a challenge and put everyone back to basics, but some thought it was a good idea.

Edit: PS, I thought about doing it just for kicks on a regular challenge and just see how well I could do with it.

Message edited by author 2005-12-08 19:23:46.
 12/08/2005 07:25:59 PM · #4
Originally posted by rex:
Will never happen. The playing field is already pretty level IMO


I agree with the level playing field part, but not sure it willnever happen. It actually might be interesting to suspend all rules for a change and say "Out of camera" only.
 12/08/2005 07:35:27 PM · #5
This one is gonna be like my cheap camera challenge, no one is willing to give up thier high end techniques or cameras. I don't know if it's fear, or what?

Edit : typos

Message edited by author 2005-12-08 19:35:58.
 12/08/2005 07:37:51 PM · #6
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
This one is gonna be like my cheap camera challenge, no one is willing to give up thier high end techniques or cameras. I don't know if it's fear, or what?

Edit : typos


Find Kevin Riggs or someone with a 1DMKII and tell them they can't edit their shots. See what they say. I bought a DSLR because I liked shooting with one. I don't care to take a photo with my P&S anymore.

Message edited by author 2005-12-08 19:38:19.
 12/08/2005 07:39:01 PM · #7
It wouldn't bother me to give up my 300 for a shoot. I learned on a point & shoot first :)

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
This one is gonna be like my cheap camera challenge, no one is willing to give up thier high end techniques or cameras. I don't know if it's fear, or what?

Edit : typos
12/08/2005 07:51:38 PM · #8
Regardless of how you frame it, it would be good for the community if once in a while we had a challenge that was specifically aimed at our less experienced users.
12/08/2005 07:56:05 PM · #9
Originally posted by coolhar:
Regardless of how you frame it, it would be good for the community if once in a while we had a challenge that was specifically aimed at our less experienced users.


I agree completely ... as well as for those here who have children they may want to get involved.
 12/08/2005 07:58:42 PM · #10
i happen to like competing against people with dslrs (esp when i beat them).
Not having a dslr hasn't stopped Joey from ribboning more than once. Shouldn't stop anyone else either.
 12/08/2005 08:11:03 PM · #11
I don't think P&S users are suddenly going to win challenges just because dSLR users switch back to basics. It's not the camera making great photos. It's first and foremost the photographer knowing what to do with it. I don't think a P&S challenge would be the handicap you'd like it to be.
 12/08/2005 08:14:01 PM · #12
Originally posted by Elemmennope:
I don't think P&S users are suddenly going to win challenges just because dSLR users switch back to basics. It's not the camera making great photos. It's first and foremost the photographer knowing what to do with it. I don't think a P&S challenge would be the handicap you'd like it to be.


That, plus I would wager the analysis that leads to the exposure decision the camera makes in auto mode is probably a bit more advanced or "smarter", if you will, in the majority of SLRs.
 12/08/2005 08:28:15 PM · #13
Originally posted by kearock:
That, plus I would wager the analysis that leads to the exposure decision the camera makes in auto mode is probably a bit more advanced or "smarter", if you will, in the majority of SLRs.


That's why I suggested a really cheap camera challenge. A toy camera or camera phone would definitely level the playing field.
 12/08/2005 09:00:47 PM · #14
Originally posted by mesmeraj:
i happen to like competing against people with dslrs (esp when i beat them).
Not having a dslr hasn't stopped Joey from ribboning more than once. Shouldn't stop anyone else either.


That's true, but if you study Joey's portfolio, there is a conspicuous change in his photos (including more subtle and natural editting) since he got a better camera.
 12/08/2005 10:53:04 PM · #15
in my personal oppinion there is a natural tendancy to just take a better picture when using an slr. If i try to take a shot on my p&s and try to take the same shot on my slr, the slr just always looks better ( I have tried this out actually)
 12/08/2005 11:27:42 PM · #16
To me, the point of this type of a challenge is not so much to make it possible for the people with lesser cameras to have a chance to score as well as the ones who have the most expensive ones. That's not going to happen. And the point is not to try to make it easier for newbies to get ribbons either. The benefit would be something that I am beginning to think most of us have forgotten about, or never experienced to begin with. I remember when I was a newbie here. I was also a newbie to digital, and returning to photography after an absence of more than 30 years. When you don't know nearly as much about the medium as the people you are competeing it is kinda scary. People who were already accomplished photographers when they signed up never went thru it so no wonder they are not sympathetic to the idea. Perhaps it is foolish to feel that way but it's normal and natural for the challenges to be quite intimidating for some of the newcomers to this site. These are the people who have the most to gain from the site; and in a few years they will have a lot to give back to another generation of dpc'ers. We should be listening carefully when they express their needs and desires. It doesn't really matter if it's a P&S challenge or a no-editing challenge, or some other format, but I think it would be beneficial to have a challenge where the beginners will feel more comfortable about entering. So what if Joey wins another blue? If a dozen or two newbies find it less foreboding and take the plunge .... that's a good thing.
12/08/2005 11:28:47 PM · #17
Not having a good camera can sometimes handicap you. I felt in the challenge i enter this time. I wanted to keep the background blurred to give subject more focus, but just can not do it with point and shoot (automatic), it keeps every thing into focus. My image in challenge 'too late' is at around 5.75 now and i know had i been able to shoot as i wanted, it would be another 0.5 points higher that this. Anyway i am happy the comments for the picture represents that i am able to do what i wished to do. So i am happy.

Originally posted by Elemmennope:
I don't think P&S users are suddenly going to win challenges just because dSLR users switch back to basics. It's not the camera making great photos. It's first and foremost the photographer knowing what to do with it. I don't think a P&S challenge would be the handicap you'd like it to be.
12/08/2005 11:32:46 PM · #18
i feel there should be some junior challenge, where the newbies can compete, for example you can only enter the challenge if you have entered less than 10 challenges. It will cut the competition with experienced.

Originally posted by coolhar:
To me, the point of this type of a challenge is not so much to make it possible for the people with lesser cameras to have a chance to score as well as the ones who have the most expensive ones. That's not going to happen. And the point is not to try to make it easier for newbies to get ribbons either. The benefit would be something that I am beginning to think most of us have forgotten about, or never experienced to begin with. I remember when I was a newbie here. I was also a newbie to digital, and returning to photography after an absence of more than 30 years. When you don't know nearly as much about the medium as the people you are competeing it is kinda scary. People who were already accomplished photographers when they signed up never went thru it so no wonder they are not sympathetic to the idea. Perhaps it is foolish to feel that way but it's normal and natural for the challenges to be quite intimidating for some of the newcomers to this site. These are the people who have the most to gain from the site; and in a few years they will have a lot to give back to another generation of dpc'ers. We should be listening carefully when they express their needs and desires. It doesn't really matter if it's a P&S challenge or a no-editing challenge, or some other format, but I think it would be beneficial to have a challenge where the beginners will feel more comfortable about entering. So what if Joey wins another blue? If a dozen or two newbies find it less foreboding and take the plunge .... that's a good thing.
12/08/2005 11:38:47 PM · #19
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 12/08/2005 11:39:02 PM · #20
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:
Originally posted by mesmeraj:
i happen to like competing against people with dslrs (esp when i beat them).
Not having a dslr hasn't stopped Joey from ribboning more than once. Shouldn't stop anyone else either.


That's true, but if you study Joey's portfolio, there is a conspicuous change in his photos (including more subtle and natural editting) since he got a better camera.


Go study mine too then and tell where i changed camera :)
 12/09/2005 12:08:33 AM · #21
Originally posted by rex:
Find Kevin Riggs or someone with a 1DMKII and tell them they can't edit their shots


ROFL, James. It is true that shots out of some DSLRs with no editing are at a disadvantage but I'd never use that as an excuse for my performace on DPChallenge. I just don't shoot what appeals here or perhaps I haven't learned or demonstrated the skills that people find compelling for ribbons. Now there are probably many, many photogs on this site who would find that being unable to edit their images straight out of the camera would stand in the way of their winning a ribbon; I just happen to be a poor example. ;)
 12/09/2005 12:15:59 AM · #22
Originally posted by Elemmennope:
dSLR users switch back to basics.


Not picking on your post its just one I noticed.

I frankly don't care one way or another as I doubt this would have any impact on my scoring for the few challenges I enter but some cameras don't have "Auto" or "Basic" settings. I can't speak to the 1D series of bodies or the D2X but the 1Ds requires that I make some choice or at least that I understand how the camera is going to interpret the settings I've chosen when I use the "P" mode. Regardless of the settings the images will come out muddier and looking worse than you might imagine. Again, I couldn't care less I'm just posting this for anyone who hasn't had an opportunity to shoot with one of these cameras and thinks that they must automatically perform some cool edits on photos.

Heck, I think it would be a cool challenge. If I was concerned I'd just use a different camera. You know, this thread pops up a couple of times a year. I would be interested in the results. Maybe the SC will choose this as a challenge in '06. It isn't as if there are enough challenges where people get to incorporate their digital editing skills.

Kev
 12/09/2005 12:37:44 AM · #23
Originally posted by karmat:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


That's what I was thinking Karmat...Already been done. Been there done that.
 12/09/2005 02:04:11 AM · #24
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
This one is gonna be like my cheap camera challenge, no one is willing to give up thier high end techniques or cameras. I don't know if it's fear, or what?

Edit : typos


It's not fear. It's simply a waste of time. Why would anyone want to limit themselves to producing a competition piece that isn't as good as it could be? I don't wanna hear rambling about how good photographers can get more out of their gear than poor ones can.

Lots of photographers, including myself, simply aren't interested in producing and showing work that would be considered unfinished. Every now and then, we do get images right out of the camera that require no post processing of any kind, but it IS RARE.



No Post Processing other than resize/border - third place finish



No Post Processing other than resize/border - first place finish

I consider some of the images that come out of my camera to be OK as is, but I also like to inject a bit of 'myself' into them in one way or another. There are certain things I like to see in my photos that simply can't happen in camera, no matter what camera is being used.
 12/09/2005 08:05:03 AM · #25
Originally posted by jmsetzler:


It's not fear. It's simply a waste of time. Why would anyone want to limit themselves to producing a competition piece that isn't as good as it could be?


Thats just it, those limitations are the challenge. Every one of these challanges has some limitations on them in one way or another. Being able to work within those limitation and still produce a great schot is the challange. Im not thinking of this strictly as a way for newbys to do well. As it was said before its more than the equipment that makes a good shot. But just for exapmle when I was taking shots for candel ligth I kept trying to fake a B-setting type shot on my hp 850 it will only work to a point but i just cant have my shutter opened as long as i needed. Where as if i had a DSLR that wouldnt have been a problem.
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