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11/07/2005 07:55:06 AM · #26 |
I realy was too affraid to enter my entry. I was thinking it was to dark and moody.
Not a ëveryday DPC" entry.
Now I shake my head and ask myself why I didn't enter it... |
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11/07/2005 08:02:55 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by shabbychic:
I agree with ELSAPO- happy thoughts are becoming a fleeting memory on this sight. It's starting to get me really turned out from great, moody art because I'm being overwhelmed with it here, which means that this challenge- filled plenty with dark and depressing photos- is making me kind of sick. |
I'm with you also.
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11/07/2005 08:07:56 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by keegbow:
... Now we are seeing more challenges with the photographer saying this is how I see the challenge opposed to the voter saying this is how I see the challenge therefor I will vote you down.
In the past far too much emphasis has been spent on the voters interpretation of the challenge description rather then how the photographer interprets the challenge.
I didn't enter this challenge but really the challenge title to me could mean all types of things......street dead ends as well as all those dark and morbid ideas. ... |
Striking a balance between the voter's interpretation and the entering photographer's interpretation is fine with me. It tilts differently in each challenge depending on the wording of the details. And we have a guideline in the rules.
My thrust in earlier posts of this thread was intended to discourage introducing another interpretation, that of a forum poster, into the equation.
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11/07/2005 08:11:58 AM · #29 |
well, my life is dark, and I'm moody from the drink.
alot of the pix I related to, and been there, except the dead ones, but almost been there too.
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11/07/2005 11:08:23 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
My thrust in earlier posts of this thread was intended to discourage introducing another interpretation, that of a forum poster, into the equation. |
This forum poster's "opinion" was summed up in his initial post as "THIS is a challenge to be savored, and voted on. Don't miss it!"
Then somebody said "But it's all so dark and moody (paraphrase)" and I responded with the statement that NO, it's not, there's a good split. I added to that: "And the technical aspect of it is fun to look at regardless; there's a LOT of interesting lighting, processing, composition, you name it, in this challenge."
I fail to see how I'm "influencing" anyone's vote by jumping up and saying "This challenge is worth taking a look at!"
I have not offered my own "interpretation" at all. It's a "get out the vote!" post...
Robt.
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11/07/2005 07:28:00 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by shabbychic:
I agree with ELSAPO- happy thoughts are becoming a fleeting memory on this sight. It's starting to get me really turned out from great, moody art because I'm being overwhelmed with it here, which means that this challenge- filled plenty with dark and depressing photos- is making me kind of sick. |
Yes, there are many images in this competition that one might term "disturbing". But let's not lose sight of the fact that one of the primary driving forces of ANY artform is to MOVE people (in one way or another). I would much rather be reviled by an image than to have no real reaction. We, as a society and as a species, in general, have become so desensitized that it's a wonder (and a BLESSING) there still ARE things that move us, even if we may not always like the way or the direction in which they move us. The choice is always there - turn it off, turn it down, look away.
All that said, I have to add that what I've actually found to be more of a downer about this contest is the number of photographs that appear to bear no relation, whatever, to the theme. To those who have made a sincere effort to address the challenge as stated (and there are MANY really *GOOD* entries), cheers!
<>
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11/08/2005 06:52:15 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
I just posted this snippet on the Dead End scoring thread, and it's gonna get lost, so here it is:
I'm a third of the way through the first pass on the entries now, and I have to say there are a LOT of exceptionally interesting and/or lovely and especially "artistically processed" images in this challenge. There seems to be a spillover from "grain", with many excellent examples of textural processing. All sorts of cool images. I'm impressed!
I have screened them all now, and I'm still impressed. THIS is a challenge to be savored, and voted on. Don't miss it!
Robt.
_______________________________________________
This forum poster's "opinion" was summed up in his initial post as "THIS is a challenge to be savored, and voted on. Don't miss it!"
........
I fail to see how I'm "influencing" anyone's vote by jumping up and saying "This challenge is worth taking a look at!"
I have not offered my own "interpretation" at all. It's a "get out the vote!" post...
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I may be reading you wrong Robert, but it seems to me that your first post, the one that you put into two different threads, is lauding the challenge, and encouraging people to vote upon it, because it contains images that are of a certain style.
I think you said more than "This challenge is worth taking a look at!". I think what you really said is This challenge is worth taking a look at because it has a lot of exceptionally interesting and/or lovely and especially artistically processed images and many excellent examples of textural processing.
I thought a GOTV campaign was supposed to scrupulously avoid being identfied with any to the candidates. What if one of the candidates meets the challenge topic very well, shows no technical flaws, and has a little of the ephemeral WOW factor, but is not especially artistically processed and doesn't have a noticeable amount of grainy texture?
Anyone who follows these forums knows that you favor the artistic, and that you aren't shy of processing. We all knew that before you made the posts about Dead End. And the repeated mention of your name in John's thread Who's The Best? - Experiment proves that you have a following here, in case there was any doubt. But the style that has you excited about the Dead End challenge is not the only one used by entrants in the challenge. I suspect it is evident in only a minority of them. It would give the rest of the entrants a fairer chance to appeal to the voters if your characterizations of why the challenge is exceptional were held until after the voting is finished.
Over time and with prodding our politicians have learned how to GOTV, to energize voters, without appearing to endorse any particular type of candidate(s). I wish people here would make a little more effort to do the same thing in regards to our challenges.
I have an entry in Dead End, and I have not yet started to vote the challenge.
Message edited by author 2005-11-08 07:04:50.
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11/08/2005 07:43:11 AM · #33 |
Let's see...we already know we can't talk about current entries in a challenge, and it seems now not only can we not look at outtakes during a challenge, we can't even encourage others to vote on a challenge OR voice our excitement when we see a challenge chock full of excellent images that meet the challenge... so in a perfect world, I suppose that people submit an entry and no one does anything or says anything until voting is finished.
What on earth would be the fun in that? Why in the world even participate in an open forum such as this? What is the point? If some people want to have complete silence during the voting, by all means, let's suck all the life out of this site and create a rather dull existence.
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11/08/2005 08:26:10 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
... so in a perfect world, I suppose that people submit an entry and no one does anything or says anything until voting is finished. |
I'm not sure if it would make the world perfect but I am positive that it would make the competitions here more fair to all.
Originally posted by laurielblack:
What on earth would be the fun in that? Why in the world even participate in an open forum such as this? What is the point? If some people want to have complete silence during the voting, by all means, let's suck all the life out of this site and create a rather dull existence. |
It anyone thinks the "life of the site" lies in lobbying for or against differing styles while they are competing in a challenge, or in the chit-chat about how well your entry is doing with the voters, I'd have to say that they have missed the point; or forgotten it. Education is often thought of as rather dull, but in the long run it is far more important than having fun.
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11/08/2005 08:29:43 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by quark314:
Originally posted by shabbychic:
I agree with ELSAPO- happy thoughts are becoming a fleeting memory on this sight. It's starting to get me really turned out from great, moody art because I'm being overwhelmed with it here, which means that this challenge- filled plenty with dark and depressing photos- is making me kind of sick. |
Yes, there are many images in this competition that one might term "disturbing". But let's not lose sight of the fact that one of the primary driving forces of ANY artform is to MOVE people (in one way or another). I would much rather be reviled by an image than to have no real reaction. |
Watch the news, read the newspaper - you will find enough images to move you in a reviling way. There's so much garbage out there already, it's a shame that people want to make more dark disturbing images available. Photos depicting drug use or suicide are not art - they're disgusting. Obviously, IMO.
Originally posted by quark314:
We, as a society and as a species, in general, have become so desensitized that it's a wonder (and a BLESSING) there still ARE things that move us, even if we may not always like the way or the direction in which they move us. The choice is always there - turn it off, turn it down, look away. |
How does one become desensitized? Overexposure. As for turning it off, etc...it's getting harder all the time to "look away", especially when you need your eyes open to see where you are going. Be moved by things that make you feel GOOD, not sick and demented!
Originally posted by quark314:
All that said, I have to add that what I've actually found to be more of a downer about this contest is the number of photographs that appear to bear no relation, whatever, to the theme. To those who have made a sincere effort to address the challenge as stated (and there are MANY really *GOOD* entries), cheers!
<> |
The challenge description left this wide open for many interpretations - but you must be able to see good, positive ways to visualize a dead end...they are not always dark.
"Creatively photograph a dead end. It can be a dead end street, hall, maze, or a metaphoric dead end -- you decide."
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11/08/2005 08:35:43 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by laurielblack:
What on earth would be the fun in that? Why in the world even participate in an open forum such as this? What is the point? If some people want to have complete silence during the voting, by all means, let's suck all the life out of this site and create a rather dull existence. |
... Education is often thought of as rather dull, but in the long run it is far more important than having fun. |
Sorry, but I joined for fun AND education. I think there is room for both. Sometimes you have to state your opinion when you see things you disagree with - hopefully others will see your point and make there own educated decisions (in or out of your camp). To stifle the forums and eliminate point/counter-points isn't the answer.
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11/08/2005 08:47:35 AM · #37 |
Being Election Day I have this observation: candidates cannot campaign within so many feet of a voting place. I really think it would be better here if we applied an adaptation of that.
Yes, this site is for fun and learning, but I do feel that all the talk about/outtakes etc. during the voting period does have a negative impact. Some people who would normally vote towards the end of the week may not vote if all they hear is how bad or disturbing a challenge is as a whole. If I had known before I voted that there were going to be so many morbid interpretations I probably would have held off as well. I agree with whoever above said that the disturbing images are not art - they are gross. I used to live in Washington DC and everyday was appalled at the junkies on 14/15 streets in the alleys shooting up. Or coming to work and seeing the pile of needles laying by the entrance or the daily ambulances taking stark white bodies from apartments and trying to revive them - not a pretty sight since they really hurt the individual to try and shock the body into a reaction. To come here and see needles in someones arm, in my opinoin, is absolutley disgusting and if people knew more about it, they probalby wouldn't glorify it just to try and win a ribbon. Suicide is not pretty either. Who wants to see it protrayed in a competition where creativity is supposed to be key? It is not creative, it is tasteless.
Just my opinion. I usually get slammed here for having/expressing my opinion. But I really feel that the 'creativity' portion was left out of a good percentage of the shots in this challenge along with the originality. |
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11/08/2005 09:00:31 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
....I do feel that all the talk about/outtakes etc. during the voting period does have a negative impact. |
I have yet to see any evidence of that. If seeing another set of images or talking about photos really had that much influence, then we should only have one challenge at a time and lock the forums, lest some similar Free Study or Landscape entry should overwhelm the voters' feeble minds. Forget repeating challenge topics, too, because Macro I-IV will unfairly taint your vote on Macro IX. Oh, and lock yourself in an empty room until you've finished voting because you might see an image or style during the course of the day that sways your perception of 200 diverse images. Sheesh!
EDIT- I'm not singling you out Alienyst, just the concept in general. As others have said, it's all been done before, so what difference does it make if we see it again?
Message edited by author 2005-11-08 09:02:14. |
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11/08/2005 09:10:00 AM · #39 |
| here is an example of the negative impact: I voted on the images and afterwards I saw this thread and read through it. When I went back to bump, I bumped more images down than any other challenge before. Why? Because this thread made me think about how I had voted and how I felt about the images in general. |
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11/08/2005 09:19:14 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Alienyst:
....I do feel that all the talk about/outtakes etc. during the voting period does have a negative impact. |
I have yet to see any evidence of that. If seeing another set of images or talking about photos really had that much influence, then we should only have one challenge at a time and lock the forums, lest some similar Free Study or Landscape entry should overwhelm the voters' feeble minds. Forget repeating challenge topics, too, because Macro I-IV will unfairly taint your vote on Macro IX. Oh, and lock yourself in an empty room until you've finished voting because you might see an image or style during the course of the day that sways your perception of 200 diverse images. Sheesh!
EDIT- I'm not singling you out Alienyst, just the concept in general. As others have said, it's all been done before, so what difference does it make if we see it again? |
There may be no evidence that the posting of outtakes, or discussion of them, has any effect but you only have to go back to kpriest's post in this thread --
Originally posted by kpriest:
For what it's worth, I'm with coolhar on this - mainly because I am probably his case in point. I didn't enter and was not going to vote on it - at least not tonight - then I saw this thread, took a glance, thought the thumbs page did look like an impressive group and started voting. After about 35%, I started to realize my scoring was a bit higher than normal. I went back and had to adjust some down because I felt like I didn't know what I was thinking.
I'm not knocking bear or others for posting here - just pointing out the effect it seemed to have on me before coolhar even posted. Maybe it's just me. |
-- to see evidence of forum postings having an effect on voter's behavior. That is undeniable.
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11/08/2005 09:24:49 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by Alienyst:
...this thread made me think |
So what's wrong with that? ANYTHING could cause you to change how you feel about the photos- a bad day, a personal experience, etc. Most people would love for you to reconsider their images and spend a little more time on them. Someone else might look at this thread and bump the scores up after reading the same discussion. My likes and dislikes aren't going to change because of what someone else writes, but I might spend more time in my evaluations. This is a Good Thingâ„¢. |
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11/08/2005 09:31:52 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by kpriest:
I didn't enter and was not going to vote on it - at least not tonight - then I saw this thread, took a glance, thought the thumbs page did look like an impressive group and started voting. After about 35%, I started to realize my scoring was a bit higher than normal. I went back and had to adjust some down because I felt like I didn't know what I was thinking.
...just pointing out the effect it seemed to have on me before coolhar even posted. |
The effect was to cause him to vote on a challenge that he might have otherwise ignored. Gasp! I've sometimes noticed that I'm voting higher or lower than normal, but not because of somebody else's comments. If Ken is saying that the thread caused him to be a little more enthusiastic and then he went back and changed his votes to what he would have "normally" given, then what's the big deal?
Message edited by author 2005-11-08 09:32:10. |
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11/08/2005 09:36:52 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
-- to see evidence of forum postings having an effect on voter's behavior. That is undeniable. |
With all due respect Harvey, what difference does it make where the image or comment is posted?
For example, what if I post an image in a forum thread under the 'Individual Photograph Discussion' heading and it's a great shot of a glass of water with a slice of lime in it. I'm SO excited about the way my experiment came out that I've posted the image, and the discussion picks up from other members of DPC.
Now it just so happens that at the same time a challenge called 'Transparency' is going on. Could the image I posted and the forum thread not inspire others to try the same experiment. Perhaps in doing so the people that have tried creating the same shot realize how basically simple the process is to get a true white background, etc... that when they are voting on the 'Transparency' challenge entries they think to themselves - "Ah, that's how they did it. Not so tough. It's nice - vote them a 6.". Without this personal experience they made have said "Wow! Amazing! 10". BTW, who's to say whether my 'experiment' was an outtake or not?
Point I'm trying to make is that this is a site about photography and trying to do better. To learn and compete against others to sharpen your photography skills.
What difference does it make if someone learns it from a thread called "outtakes" vs one I've labeled "My fun experiment"?
Influence and knowledge are going to take place here...and thankfully so.
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11/08/2005 09:44:30 AM · #44 |
Nothing that I have posted in this thread is intended to be about the posting of outtakes or discussion of them. That is an entirely separate issue than the one I am trying to address here.
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11/08/2005 09:53:07 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by kpriest:
I didn't enter and was not going to vote on it - at least not tonight - then I saw this thread, took a glance, thought the thumbs page did look like an impressive group and started voting. After about 35%, I started to realize my scoring was a bit higher than normal. I went back and had to adjust some down because I felt like I didn't know what I was thinking.
...just pointing out the effect it seemed to have on me before coolhar even posted. |
The effect was to cause him to vote on a challenge that he might have otherwise ignored. Gasp! I've sometimes noticed that I'm voting higher or lower than normal, but not because of somebody else's comments. If Ken is saying that the thread caused him to be a little more enthusiastic and then he went back and changed his votes to what he would have "normally" given, then what's the big deal? |
The big deal is that voters are being influenced to change their voting patterns so that they are no longer based on their own impression of the entry, but now incorporate the views of forum posters. If you cannot see that this has a negative effect on the overall fairness of the challenge, well, maybe you need to make a visit to the White House for those ethics refreshers.
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11/08/2005 09:56:00 AM · #46 |
Where's that damned dead horse smiley when I need it???
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11/08/2005 10:03:53 AM · #47 |
It's all in the same context. You're talking about being being influenced as to how they vote. I'm saying that there are many avenues that people on this site are influenced (outtakes, individual photo's, out and abouts, etc...). Your comment that I was replying to was this:
Originally posted by coolhar:
-- to see evidence of forum postings having an effect on voter's behavior. That is undeniable. |
You were generalizing 'forum postings' and that's a pretty wide area of coverage. People are going to be influenced period.
Originally posted by coolhar:
Nothing that I have posted in this thread is intended to be about the posting of outtakes or discussion of them. That is an entirely separate issue than the one I am trying to address here. |
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11/08/2005 10:04:15 AM · #48 |
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I'm telling!!!! You said a bad word!!!! You said ..... you said ... OMG I cant beleive yousaid ...
HORSE!!!!
Originally posted by laurielblack:
Where's that damned dead horse smiley when I need it??? |
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11/08/2005 10:06:08 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
Where's that damned dead horse smiley when I need it??? |
In Texas?
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11/08/2005 10:15:15 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Alienyst:
....I do feel that all the talk about/outtakes etc. during the voting period does have a negative impact. |
I have yet to see any evidence of that. If seeing another set of images or talking about photos really had that much influence, then we should only have one challenge at a time and lock the forums, lest some similar Free Study or Landscape entry should overwhelm the voters' feeble minds. Forget repeating challenge topics, too, because Macro I-IV will unfairly taint your vote on Macro IX. Oh, and lock yourself in an empty room until you've finished voting because you might see an image or style during the course of the day that sways your perception of 200 diverse images. Sheesh! |
Scalvert-I would have to disagree that SOME peoples words here have little effect on DPCers in regards to the voting or the site in general. Not a bad thing...not a good thing, mind you but I did see a few times when you or other well respected DPC members gave praise to individual photographers, that these people starting showing up on the popular lists everywhere and given very serious attention after the fact and at times in my opinion given crazy praise for mediocre work or credit for photographic styles that have been around for years and years and years. Shot right to the top without question.
That's not to say that they don't deserve praise or accolades for their great work but that these statements do carry a good deal of weight with some members. I should add that many people go unseen on this site who consistently deliver beautiful images and if you or someone else of stature pointed them out...they too would immediately wind up at the top of the DPC food chain. (btw that was a sleazy plea on my part to have you mention me sometime...somewhere....ANYWHERE...please!)
There are maybe ten or more members (that come to mind)who's words carry a real punch. Not always or in every situation but it should be acknowledged to some degree.
Having said all that, I have no real issue with this thread...it's wording (lovely and especially "artistically processed" images)but I'd bet the bank that enough voters do get led or swayed one way, or the next, that make a difference. Even if slight...still a difference.
It's all good. It's how the playing field is laid out. People can accept it or not and discussing it is healthy just as well.
One more thing. Suicide whether it bothers you or not, is a very real part of life and should be dealt with for it exists and can most certainly be dealt with artistically. Get your head out of the sand. Life is not all, puppies and ice cream. Problems like that partially exist because people choose or try to bury them and not deal with them head on. IMHO?
Message edited by author 2005-11-08 10:20:21. |
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