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10/14/2005 06:30:49 PM · #51 |
"So you can pick mine out if you care to. Others say about the same, yet my score is continually falling from 5.5 to under 5 in the last two days. How is it possible to get so many UNDER 5 with a pic that obviously meets the challenge and is to so many a nice pic???? "
That is the rest of my complaining, I truly am sorry some of you took any of that to mean I disliked the comments I had received, it plainly asks how I get so many scores under five when so many think it is a NICE pic? That was my point entirely, I was going steadily down, meaning I was getting low scores posted, but received NO reasons why, all I was getting was good comments.
If that was truly that confusing to you all, and obviously it was or a lot of you just wanted to see me as a complete idiot, which is of course possible LOL, I will try to do a more complete job of posting from now on, instead of the way I worded it, would it have been better for you if I had said " This is not a bad comment but it may serve to be an example of the good ones I have received, showing that I have had no bad ones"? Which is about what I was trying to do. I honestly do not understand how anyone could take what I said as complaining about that comment, or the one that was partially deleted, but if that is what you got from my post, I apologize 100%, it was NOT meant that way at all!!
Jacque |
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10/14/2005 06:45:26 PM · #52 |
| Ok, after reading all of your posts here I finally understand what you were saying! Surely you can see why I was confused since you said my comment was the WORST. Sorry if I upset you, I didn't mean to, I guess I was being defensive when I thought you said my comment was the worst you had gotten. |
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10/14/2005 06:46:42 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by bucket:
Originally posted by rikki11:
This image is poorly executed. Dirt!
If you want people to be brutally frank about your images to make you improve as a photographer, I suggest not being too emotionally tied with your images. Take images because they please you. People are entitled to their own opinions and they might differ from yours.
If you ask for comments, be happy to receive them... good or bad. |
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I personally don't understand why anyone would be happy to get a poorly thought-out comment such as the one you received..i like getting comments, but am not happy good or bad. Bad comments aren't necessarily ones where the person doesn't like the shot, rather ones that have been given no real thought, or are petty...I am not hurt nor destroyed, but personally would rather not hear from or associate with people like that.
.so quite simply I don't agree. |
Comments should be constructive. If someone wants to degrade your image, I don't think you have control over that. You just ignore it and move on. |
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10/14/2005 06:52:06 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by rikki11:
Originally posted by bucket:
Originally posted by rikki11:
This image is poorly executed. Dirt!
If you want people to be brutally frank about your images to make you improve as a photographer, I suggest not being too emotionally tied with your images. Take images because they please you. People are entitled to their own opinions and they might differ from yours.
If you ask for comments, be happy to receive them... good or bad. |
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I personally don't understand why anyone would be happy to get a poorly thought-out comment such as the one you received..i like getting comments, but am not happy good or bad. Bad comments aren't necessarily ones where the person doesn't like the shot, rather ones that have been given no real thought, or are petty...I am not hurt nor destroyed, but personally would rather not hear from or associate with people like that.
.so quite simply I don't agree. |
Comments should be constructive. If someone wants to degrade your image, I don't think you have control over that. You just ignore it and move on. |
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AGREED! |
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10/14/2005 07:21:00 PM · #55 |
After receiving grief by one too many people who only want to whine and complain, I now refuse to comment on challenges. If you use the comments received as your main tool for learning then you will not improve a lot. I learn the most from tutorials and by reading the boards. I also look at the shots I admire and try and do my own version. If you want really constructive comments, try asking on the boards and offer to exchange comment for comment. You will get more constuctive critics and a lot more of them. Good luck.
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10/14/2005 07:44:43 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by rikki11:
Comments should be constructive. If someone wants to degrade your image, I don't think you have control over that. You just ignore it and move on. |
I will dissagree - comments do NOT have to be constructive.
A comment is one persons veiw of the image.
So if some one thinks the picture is poor thats great - providing they also say WHY.
IE, this is a poor image.
vs
this image is poor - it is out of focus, it has no subject, it is flat, etc. - there was no compelling reason to put this image into the challenge..
i don't think those comments are constructive - though they may be truthfull ..
if you want to couch you phrases to lessen the impact that great - but a OOF image is still OOF
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10/14/2005 07:49:44 PM · #57 |
KarenNfld, no apology is needed, but I surely accept it. To those others that were so quick on the "caught you " idea, try re reading that post where I "complained" about karen's comment, instead of looking for something bad, try thinking something like, if this is the WORST comment he got, must be the others were pretty good??? Which is exactly the way I meant it, kinda like "was mowing the yard and found a $10 bill, and that was the WORST thing that happened to me today!" That is how it was meant. I will try to be more clear in my postings, but honestly did not see how that could be taken any other way when the first word she used was NICE. Oh, well, live and hopefully learn!!
Bucket thanks for the post about not jumping to conclusions, I appreciated that.
Bucket and rikki, I tend to agree with you both on those comments.
Troberge, not the MAIN way to learn, but should be a good way. Understand how some comments may be taken 100% reverse of the way you mean them LOL, but will still try to comment on every 1 (not many of those) and 2 I vote. To my way of thinking the right to vote a one or two comes with the responsibility of telling the photographer why you voted that way.
Jacque
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10/14/2005 07:52:03 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by ralphnev:
Originally posted by rikki11:
Comments should be constructive. If someone wants to degrade your image, I don't think you have control over that. You just ignore it and move on. |
I will dissagree - comments do NOT have to be constructive.
A comment is one persons veiw of the image.
So if some one thinks the picture is poor thats great - providing they also say WHY.
IE, this is a poor image.
vs
this image is poor - it is out of focus, it has no subject, it is flat, etc. - there was no compelling reason to put this image into the challenge..
i don't think those comments are constructive - though they may be truthfull ..
if you want to couch you phrases to lessen the impact that great - but a OOF image is still OOF |
Read the third line of your response. I think you're asking for a "constructive" criticism... which exactly my point. |
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10/14/2005 08:16:58 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by rikki11:
Comments should be constructive. If someone wants to degrade your image, I don't think you have control over that. You just ignore it and move on. |
I've said it before, and i'll keep saying it as long as this kind of thread keeps cropping up:
You are submitting to a contest, you are presenting your image for judgment. You are NOT presenting it to collect empty sycophantic flattery, for that go to deviantart. If you complain about a lack of comments, you should realise it's not the commenters that are "passing you over", but your image is not inspiring comments... either that or all the threads about "if you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all" have put them off giving you their honest opinion. This is one of those threads.
In fact my point is so simple that you may have missed it, so i'll make it again. Saying "all comments should be constructive" is not compatible with saying "boo hoo i have no comments". You'll get either comments saying it sucks, and if you're lucky, why... or no comments at all. The posters of this kind of thread choose which one. The rest of us have to live with it.
I'd personally much rather have a dozen "it sucks"es and one "it sucks because" rather than a dozen people too scared to comment because of this kind of witch-hunting.
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10/14/2005 08:34:45 PM · #60 |
So where is it exactly that I disagreed to what you are saying?
Would it make you feel better if I said, "In my opinion, comments should at least be constructive?"
Your opinion about getting a dozen "sucks"es and one "it sucks because" is your own. I would much rather have people tell me what's wrong with my image. Again going back to the fact that in my opinion, comments should at least be constructive.
"This image isn't that great mainly due to the fact that..."
I don't say an image sucks. I am not a master nor have I ever said I were one.
I'm not scared about these types of threads. I'm not a baggie when I leave comments. If it doesn't work, I'll tell you. You take my comment any which way you want.
My two cents. |
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10/14/2005 08:40:49 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by riot:
Originally posted by rikki11:
Comments should be constructive. If someone wants to degrade your image, I don't think you have control over that. You just ignore it and move on. |
I've said it before, and i'll keep saying it as long as this kind of thread keeps cropping up:
You are submitting to a contest, you are presenting your image for judgment. You are NOT presenting it to collect empty sycophantic flattery, for that go to deviantart. If you complain about a lack of comments, you should realise it's not the commenters that are "passing you over", but your image is not inspiring comments... either that or all the threads about "if you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all" have put them off giving you their honest opinion. This is one of those threads.
In fact my point is so simple that you may have missed it, so i'll make it again. Saying "all comments should be constructive" is not compatible with saying "boo hoo i have no comments". You'll get either comments saying it sucks, and if you're lucky, why... or no comments at all. The posters of this kind of thread choose which one. The rest of us have to live with it.
I'd personally much rather have a dozen "it sucks"es and one "it sucks because" rather than a dozen people too scared to comment because of this kind of witch-hunting. |
Very well said I agree with this 100%
oddj you just have to look at the current home page ribbons, a total of 174 votes 4 or less, you just have to deal with it. When I check your profile you have an average vote cast of 4.77 which I would presume means you have given plenty of 4 or less vote, did you give comments to these? |
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10/14/2005 08:41:01 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by rikki11:
Would it make you feel better if I said, "In my opinion, comments should at least be constructive?"
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Maybe "it would be nice if more comments were constructive". Saying anything else is a subtle way of saying "if you don't have what i'm looking for in a comment, i don't want it and neither does anybody else". I personally would hesitate to even say anything stronger than that, because it can be taken as discouragement for people from commenting generally, for the reasons i gave.
Originally posted by rikki11:
I'm not scared about these types of threads. I'm not a baggie when I leave comments. If it doesn't work, I'll tell you. You take my comment any which way you want. |
Then yours is the "it sucks because" that i look forward to. That's good :) Now "if only more were like that" :D
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10/14/2005 08:46:15 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by riot:
Then yours is the "it sucks because" that i look forward to. That's good :) Now "if only more were like that" :D |
Nah! I don't comment like that. Like I said I don't say an image sucks. :D |
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10/14/2005 08:47:08 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by riot:
Originally posted by rikki11:
Comments should be constructive. If someone wants to degrade your image, I don't think you have control over that. You just ignore it and move on. |
I've said it before, and i'll keep saying it as long as this kind of thread keeps cropping up:
You are submitting to a contest, you are presenting your image for judgment. You are NOT presenting it to collect empty sycophantic flattery, for that go to deviantart. If you complain about a lack of comments, you should realise it's not the commenters that are "passing you over", but your image is not inspiring comments... either that or all the threads about "if you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all" have put them off giving you their honest opinion. This is one of those threads.
In fact my point is so simple that you may have missed it, so i'll make it again. Saying "all comments should be constructive" is not compatible with saying "boo hoo i have no comments". You'll get either comments saying it sucks, and if you're lucky, why... or no comments at all. The posters of this kind of thread choose which one. The rest of us have to live with it.
I'd personally much rather have a dozen "it sucks"es and one "it sucks because" rather than a dozen people too scared to comment because of this kind of witch-hunting. |
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So what is your point..you have said it before ..that is your opinion. Not a convincing argument for me, but I don't mind that you feel that way. I don't pm people, nor do I complain about my comments (other than once with regards to Critique Club). I simply don't have any respect for , nor feel a need to encourage mindless comments. Maybe you should read up on the witch hunts before you make such a comment...you only come off sounding angry. Perhaps you would prefer to silence those people who don't agree with you..it certainly sounds like that..or maybe you are frustrated with your lack of comments..
I hope you get what you want. Really..that is not a bitter statement..but please think before you label and slam people unless you really plan on having an intelligent argument. |
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10/14/2005 09:10:20 PM · #65 |
Wow Keegbow, you caught me too, I have only said votes of three's and four's have no need of comment for me a few times in these threads. But I HONESTLY used to give all 1's 2' and 3's comments, but I fudged it and now only give all the ones and twos. Course I try to leave any helpful comment I can, with out any relationship to the score I give them. I also have said that a couple times too, but makes no difference, I know. In the guidelines it states please try to leave comments on any vote 3 or under, so YEP< I do not follow the rules and you caught me!! Congratulations BTW. I left about 70 comments on this personification challenge, and no where near that many ones and twos.
Also have received emails from people I have left comments for DURING the challenge voting, SURPRISE, thought that was not done, couple were really not nice, and that detered me for a bit, but feel if I am to be a part of this, I should try to do what I really feel is right. Unlike the way some others come across here, I admit I make mistakes, am all too human, but I do honestly try to help, not hurt others. Have lived my whole adult life that way and am proud of that!! SO, feel free to post my home page, email addy, whatever else feels good for you, enjoy!!
Jacque |
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10/14/2005 09:13:36 PM · #66 |
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10/15/2005 12:19:51 AM · #67 |
olddj ... unless you comment with a bag over your head, then you haven't commented on mine. It's funny ... this is the most comments I've gotten from the "bag people" ... It's almost as if they are hiding on purpose! :)
I just can't wait for it to be over, so I can explain where my "personification" is, and then everyone will go ... "Oh ... I see it now!" LOL
Message edited by author 2005-10-15 00:22:10. |
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10/16/2005 05:09:45 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by LadeeM:
I just can't wait for it to be over, so I can explain where my "personification" is, and then everyone will go ... "Oh ... I see it now!" LOL |
Hey Tara, I'm with ya on that. |
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10/16/2005 07:52:47 AM · #69 |
Here's a good one, how about someone adding words to your entry title which changes the entire context - then commenting on how the image based on the "new" title doesn't meet the challenge. Aiy-yi-YI! ;^)
Well, at least the image gave them pause to comment...must have done something for them. He-he.
Originally posted by LadeeM:
olddj ... unless you comment with a bag over your head, then you haven't commented on mine. It's funny ... this is the most comments I've gotten from the "bag people" ... It's almost as if they are hiding on purpose! :)
I just can't wait for it to be over, so I can explain where my "personification" is, and then everyone will go ... "Oh ... I see it now!" LOL |
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10/16/2005 08:53:09 AM · #70 |
From reading the response to this thread I can see that alot of you feel the same as I do at times. I must add this little comment and try to put into words how I feel about my photography. I have won on other sites, even got a Kodak POTD, (which was exciting and rewarding). But the thing that I have enjoyed the most about my photography is the fact that I started noticing things that normally I would not have taken a second look at. Sunsets are much more beautiful now, angles are more interesting. So as for comments, all people see things differently, I cannot tell you how many times I will get a comment on a image, saying "bad angle" , then the next comment "wonderful angle", point being, alot of people on this site are amateurs as well, and do not know all there is to know about the subject. So look at your image learn from it, and comments or not, as long as you like it and enjoyed making the shot, thats what counts.
Message edited by author 2005-10-16 15:51:17. |
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10/16/2005 09:31:02 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by rikki11:
This image is poorly executed. Dirt! |
I didn't see the first part of this comment and stumbled upon only the "Dirt!" portion of the comment. Could that "Dirt!" commentary be related to the big speck of sensor dust (or smudge) that interrupts the sky in your photo? I don't think they meant your photo was dirt, it's so not so, but having been a basic editing challenge I am thinking that they were referring to your smudge.
As for the poorly executed...so not true. I didn't see that comment within your comments of this photo, admittedly I wasn't searching high & low either.
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10/16/2005 08:58:10 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by bucket:
Originally posted by riot:
If you complain about a lack of comments, you should realise it's not the commenters that are "passing you over", but your image is not inspiring comments... either that or all the threads about "if you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all" have put them off giving you their honest opinion. This is one of those threads.
I'd personally much rather have a dozen "it sucks"es and one "it sucks because" rather than a dozen people too scared to comment because of this kind of witch-hunting.
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Perhaps you would prefer to silence those people who don't agree with you..it certainly sounds like that..or maybe you are frustrated with your lack of comments |
How exactly, in my tirade against people who would silence others because they are prone to giving negative comments, did i manage to come off as wanting to silence people myself? I said i want more comments, being negative or otherwise. Accusing me of trying to silence people is pretty inappropriate :) And of course i'm frustrated by my lack of comments, isn't everyone? Or would you say "ah that's enough comments, i don't need any additional opinions, i know how great my work is by now"?
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10/16/2005 09:10:07 PM · #73 |
I think maybe I don't understand what you are trying to say.
I thought you said people who asked for comments to be constructive are on a "witch hunt".
Accusing someone of that, when what they are suggesting is keeping things positive..well I would suggest that would be trying to silence people.
I am not sure what you meant other than that..for my part, I will stand by the premise that the only comments of real value are those that are constructive..and if the idea of asking for constructive criticism is not what you were tirading against then I stand corrected.
edit:
If you want comments then why don't you start by giving more?
42 comments made in over a year, and yet you complain that you don't get enough comments.
I find I often receive comments from people i have taken the time to provide with comments.
Message edited by author 2005-10-16 21:56:40. |
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10/16/2005 10:04:35 PM · #74 |
ok i have no idea what your talking about. i dont give out 1 and 2's and i never said that i say yuck as comments. this is what i said.
"for the ones i give 5's and 6's too.... if it fits the theme, technically good but not wow, but just seems boring to me...i comment "nicely done but its an average photo, and give score" or i say "this photo needs something, give an example and score"....i try to say what i like about the photo than what i dont like, or vice versa, then it doesnt sound as harsh. but there are some photos that are all around bad, and you wanna say wtf? or why are you wasting my time? but i dont want to be that rude, so i just say nothing."
Originally posted by olddj:
LOL saintaugust!!
queanbeez, I really can understand anyone's reluctance to comment on a "bad" photo, but I honestly think we HAVE to, otherwise why try to learn here? All I ask is to be honest with your critique and tell the reason you scored it a one or two! Am sure if you think about it, you usually can find the reason and be able to express it gracefully! If not gracefully, at least without being rude. As in "YUCK" is not a critique or a viable comment, it is just being rude. However, a comment of "IMO your lighting is so bad that the photo loses all meaning to me" may seem harsh to some, it is an honest opinion and should (and would be by me and most others) be taken as such. If I was doing something on purpose with the lighting I would feel I missed getting the point across, and if it was just bad lighting, I would understand. But if, after receiving that, I still thought the lighting was okay, I have the choice of laughing at your comment and ignoring it. That to me is the primary reason for doing this. In that, I may be wrong, of course, but it IS my primary reason - to LEARN from my mistakes!!
Jacque |
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10/16/2005 10:24:56 PM · #75 |
Backtracking a little here, there's no incompatibility in my mind with 100% comments saying some variation of "nice" and a score in the low 5's. "Nice" images that meet the challenge are commonplace, and they score somewhere in the 5's. They don't excite people enough to break through to a higher level, they're just "nice". These images are hard to comment constructively on; there's nothing really wrong with them, really, they just aren't very interesting or exciting. I seem to have made something of a specialty of creating "nice" images myself.
It's when the commenters start saying "outstanding" or "excellent" or "awesome image, dude" and the score still stays in the low 5's that I get confused, actually...
Robt.
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