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09/21/2005 12:33:56 PM · #26 |
Rikki, thanks for a most interesting lesson on perspectives and vanishing points! Learnt something new!
*a newbie* |
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09/21/2005 12:38:24 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I would say tha Bear's point about the duck shot being a bit flat is the over riding reason the entry fared poorly since a strong use of perspective did not seem to be a priorty for most votes, at least as expressed by the blue and yellow ribbon winner,s. Beautifull shots with interesting lines, but no use of perspective at all, as I understand it. |
i would contend that your understanding is flawed, atleast with respect to the yellow ribbon (mine)
perspective thru (and on) the glass ball is very fluid - and changes as you move around it (as it should when looking through a lens),
I.E. at the point where the image was taken, some of the complimentry lines align on the top of the ball, the view from within the ball is nearly a 120deg view, though the camera FOV only captured a ~30deg view, and the reflectons on the ball show lines that are beside the camera to the point of them blending in withthe rest of the image ...
i believe the image has a great deal of perspective .. and it is pretty too ;)
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09/21/2005 12:43:01 PM · #28 |
Yeah, I guess I stretched my interpretation a bit too much for this one.
Thanks alot for your input guys. :)
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09/21/2005 12:45:59 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by ralphnev:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I would say tha Bear's point about the duck shot being a bit flat is the over riding reason the entry fared poorly since a strong use of perspective did not seem to be a priorty for most votes, at least as expressed by the blue and yellow ribbon winner,s. Beautifull shots with interesting lines, but no use of perspective at all, as I understand it. |
i would contend that your understanding is flawed, atleast with respect to the yellow ribbon (mine)
perspective thru (and on) the glass ball is very fluid - and changes as you move around it (as it should when looking through a lens),
I.E. at the point where the image was taken, some of the complimentry lines align on the top of the ball, the view from within the ball is nearly a 120deg view, though the camera FOV only captured a ~30deg view, and the reflectons on the ball show lines that are beside the camera to the point of them blending in withthe rest of the image ...
i believe the image has a great deal of perspective .. and it is pretty too ;) |
I quite agree; Ralph's shot plays with our perceptions of "perspective" in a very original, or creative, way. it's all about perspective.
I'm not sure why anyone would think the blue ribbon does not "user perspective to create imapct"; the shape of the boat is wildly exaggerated by the use of a wide angle lens, and this greatly exaggerated perspective is key to the beauty of the image.
R.
Message edited by author 2005-09-21 12:48:20.
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09/21/2005 01:44:09 PM · #30 |
I would contend that if you asked a random person to write a one hundred word essay describing either of the the two lovely images I mentioned, that the word perspective would not be used. I mentioned the light challenge before, and how central light was to the higher scoring entries. I think that was not the case in this challenge.
I think Ralph's shot is wildly creative, and flawlessly executed. However, would not a good waterdrop shot make the same use of "prespective"? The thread was started by asking how any shot would not qualify in this challenge, and I think that the voting answered that.
Perhaps my understanding is flawed, I studied Architecture at U.C. Berkeley and came to have a certain understanding of the use of perspective. Perhaps the study of the field within the confines of the built environment has twisted my understanding so the word means something different to me than to the majority of the population.
The top scoring shots are lovely, but they are a very diverse group of images, and I belive that the lack of cohesiveness in the group has to do with a flawed understanding of perspective. I would hold that perspective is not synonymous with point of view, optical distotion, or fish eye lens use.
I realise that this is not the majority view, and I don't want to appear to be attacking the most successful shots, they are beautifull photographs and I will leave it at that. |
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09/21/2005 01:56:53 PM · #31 |
Well, perspective is visual representation of 3D object in 2D...then I got lost with POV.
My understanding as an engineering draughtsman was always that perspective is as above, and POV is the angle you are viewing at...its the same thing. To illustrate an object using perspective, you have to have a POV...the angle you are viewing it, your positioning. I think people are making too much of the challenge definitions.
My entry:
Got a massive 4.8, it has different examples of perspective and even had a comment asking 'perspective??' Go figure, if the people voting don't know what they are voting on or what it means...why do we bother to submit?
Steve |
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09/21/2005 01:59:58 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
...The top scoring shots are lovely, but they are a very diverse group of images, and I belive that the lack of cohesiveness in the group has to do with a flawed understanding of perspective. |
You mean like this? I thought a different perspective on this red pepper would be fun...instead of standing it up I laid it on it's side and facing towards the viewer. Didn't work. ;^(
edit to add, I did get some giggles out of the kids on this one. ;^)
Message edited by author 2005-09-21 14:01:58.
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09/21/2005 03:03:25 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
...The top scoring shots are lovely, but they are a very diverse group of images, and I belive that the lack of cohesiveness in the group has to do with a flawed understanding of perspective. |
You mean like this? I thought a different perspective on this red pepper would be fun...instead of standing it up I laid it on it's side and facing towards the viewer. Didn't work. ;^(
edit to add, I did get some giggles out of the kids on this one. ;^) |
looked like bums to me .. i liked it ;) |
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09/21/2005 03:03:27 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
...The top scoring shots are lovely, but they are a very diverse group of images, and I belive that the lack of cohesiveness in the group has to do with a flawed understanding of perspective. |
You mean like this? I thought a different perspective on this red pepper would be fun...instead of standing it up I laid it on it's side and facing towards the viewer. Didn't work. ;^(
edit to add, I did get some giggles out of the kids on this one. ;^) |
This shot is more of a POV IMHO. |
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09/21/2005 03:10:50 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by ralphnev:
looked like bums to me .. i liked it ;) |
Me too - therefore the title. BTW, how many 'bums' do you see? ;^)
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09/21/2005 03:13:20 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by ralphnev:
looked like bums to me .. i liked it ;) |
Me too - therefore the title. BTW, how many 'bums' do you see? ;^) |
minimumly 2 ..
though i can't look at bums .. i'm at work ....
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09/21/2005 03:37:03 PM · #37 |
My Perspective II entry has been my highest rated photo to date... A 5.799 isn't glamourous, but I'm proud of it.
I still haven't broken 6... or had somebody choose one of my photos as one of their favorites... So I guess those can still be goals for the future... |
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09/21/2005 06:44:20 PM · #38 |
Ralph - It's more than two, and it should be safe to look at while working; I kept it out of the Nude category. ;^)
Originally posted by ralphnev:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by ralphnev:
looked like bums to me .. i liked it ;) |
Me too - therefore the title. BTW, how many 'bums' do you see? ;^) |
minimumly 2 ..
though i can't look at bums .. i'm at work .... |
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09/21/2005 07:22:22 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Ralph - It's more than two, and it should be safe to look at while working; I kept it out of the Nude category. ;^)
Originally posted by ralphnev:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by ralphnev:
looked like bums to me .. i liked it ;) |
Me too - therefore the title. BTW, how many 'bums' do you see? ;^) |
minimumly 2 ..
though i can't look at bums .. i'm at work .... |
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ok ok 4 maybe 5 or 6 if you really think about ugly but^h^H^H^H peppers
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09/21/2005 07:56:14 PM · #40 |
To bring back to topic, in photograpy and art perspective is to make a 2d image look 3d, this usually entails vanishing points or lines, another important factor..to me.. is DOF of the dof is shor then the lines/ponts become blurry and therefore dont vanish and give the 3d feel. I think the challange was written well to get people to use a prespective tech to their image but to many people took it as sides of an object or POV, some even tried to do a pov but taking the shot of a subject and from the subject pov. Unfortunatly many Good prespective shots got ignored or not voted high because they were not as Pretty as others that didnt meet the criteria as it "should have been" by an art stand point, which is sad.
Not to be mean but the 3rd place and 4th place shots really arent great Perspective shots as the DOF is very limited while the are wonderful images they dont have the 3rd deminsion feel for very far and thus has a 3d portion in a 2d shot.
And dont think that by me saying this means I am an expert or think I should have placed higher, but I will suggest that on future challanges the rules could be made clearer or to have links defineing the technical ins and outs to a thechnical theam. |
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09/21/2005 08:11:52 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by nemesise1977:
To bring back to topic, in photograpy and art perspective is to make a 2d image look 3d... |
This looks 3D, doesn't it? Sure looks like a fanny to me! Even well-rounded 3D. ;^)
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09/21/2005 08:30:36 PM · #42 |
if you observe closely there are 3 or more vanising points on the sphere - they just ain't linear
as far as vanishing points go .. they are interesting..
but it is not the only way to make a "perspective" nor is having a infinite DOF necessary
i mean if i look at the laptop infront of me & observe _without looking directly at_ the scene beyond the laptop it is OOF - in the image above the focus point were the lines in the ball, all else is roughly as seen (in real life)
as far as mre narrow rules or more specific challenges - who wants to be bored ??
more rubberduckys, blue backgrounds & grapes ? aaaghh.... |
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09/21/2005 08:59:35 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Perhaps my understanding is flawed, I studied Architecture at U.C. Berkeley and came to have a certain understanding of the use of perspective. Perhaps the study of the field within the confines of the built environment has twisted my understanding so the word means something different to me than to the majority of the population.
The top scoring shots are lovely, but they are a very diverse group of images, and I belive that the lack of cohesiveness in the group has to do with a flawed understanding of perspective. I would hold that perspective is not synonymous with point of view, optical distotion, or fish eye lens use.
I realise that this is not the majority view, and I don't want to appear to be attacking the most successful shots, they are beautifull photographs and I will leave it at that. |
I agree. I guess my years in school (at two different Universities nonetheless) has proven my understanding greatly flawed.
By the way, I guess the new challenge of taking a perspective from the ground up would be too boring for most people since it's a little more specific. More tall buildings, more feet stomping, yet more flagpoles, etc. My two cents. Take it as it is.
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09/22/2005 02:32:46 AM · #44 |
Ok, here's my new perspective on all this...
In my entry, I used 3 views of a duck to show perspective. Hey, in the broadest sense of the word, it works. But this is photography, and if I were to apply the correct definition as it applies to photography, it quite literally falls flat. There's no 3d feel nor is there any direction to it.
Words can have different meanings for different applications. When I started this thread I had no idea how the word prospective applied to photography. Perspective can mean several things, but from a photography standpoint, it's much more specific.
So for future challenges, I'll be sure to look up the word in a photography dictionary before I enter it! :)
Thanks again gents :)
George
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