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12/09/2002 01:08:41 AM · #1 |
nm
Message edited by author 2002-12-09 23:12:04. |
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12/09/2002 01:17:53 AM · #2 |
Comments are just that. Comments. Even if the person fully doesn't understand DOF, they may fully understand that they do, or don't like the way it looks. If they see it, and think that it would look good with the whole pic in focus, I think it's important to recognize that. If you were going to sell your shots, they would be up in front of a general audience. Professionals aren't the only ones that buy posters, or post cards. And professionals aren't the only ones that are allowed to say "hey, I really like that" or "eek!! what is THAT?" It's you and me, and joe schmoe over there hanging out at the comic book stand. Truth is, not a lot of people DO understand DOF, so probably not a lot of people are going to appreciate it as much as someone who does understand it. I don't think though that it means that their opinions are any less important.
The "that's crap" kind of comments though, really stink, and if a person regularily makes these kinds of comments, I do believe that drew and lang look into it. Keep your chin up, and take the comments with a grain of salt. You'll get the feel for the people around here, and see who are the "good guys" and who are the ones you'd rather not deal with.
~Heather~
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12/09/2002 01:53:07 AM · #3 |
I did not refer to DOF but I did talk about the focus. What you had in focus was beautiful and I wanted to see the whole flower in focus rather than one or two stems. As it was it was not interesting to me at all. But I did take the time to look at it carefully and liked what I saw but did not like what I did not see. What is wrong with that. Do you decide what everyone else has a right to like and dislike? Just like who are you to intimidate the new ones from commenting by shouting in capitals If you don't know much about photography>>>don't judge. That is not what this sight is all about. I am not a newby to photography - got my first camera 48 years ago and by now have about 300. That is not someone new to photography. But I still didn't like your pentagon. Some of the ones I absolutely loved came in down close to 200, but that doesn't change my mind. I still love them and added them to my favorites. I don't see anyone venting anger but you. And I don't understand why you are so upset. Opinion are just opinions. Likes and likes are just likes and dislikes. There is nothing personal about the voting. We don't even know whose photo we are voting on, so how could we possible be taking our anger out on anyone. I have not seen any inappropriate commenting on photos. Maybe some where they didn't quite know how to express what they were thinking, but none inappropriate. There were some that maybe could have been said a little nicer, but overlook them. Maybe it was a bad day for them. Ever have one of those? Seems you are today. Be assured if there is anything wrong with the commenting on photos, and in the forums also, it will be handled by the administrators. I realize you tried hard and put a lot of work into your shot, but you should be relaxing and enjoying it more. Tomorrow you will feel better and things will look differently. Supprising what a good nights sleep will do for you. I do wish you the best in the future. Your other shots I liked, just not this one.
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12/09/2002 02:25:16 AM · #4 |
I know I've said this before in other threads, but i think it needs to be repeated... Don't complain about getting comments!!! If you don't want anyone else's opinion, then Don't Ask For IT!!! When you submit an entry here, you are basically asking for other people to tell you what they think about it. If all you want to hear is "Great Job!" or "This is wonderful!" then I suggest you show them to your family.
All of this sniping at the people who comment will make them not want to comment anymore. Then the same folks that are saying "Who are you to criticize ME?" will have to change to "Why doesn't anyone leave comments?" If you don't agree with someone's assessment of your work, ignore it and move on. Please remember, when someone here gives you their opinion, it is because You Asked For IT!!!
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12/09/2002 03:02:09 AM · #5 |
i thought the dof worked nicely.
the composition was a little lacking, but setzler commented on that beforehand when you posted it to the forums. either way, that's a matter of personal opinion. it was still a rather good photo. i think i gave it a 7.
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12/09/2002 04:11:19 AM · #6 |
Having looked through your comments seemed to be more positive "I like your DOF" comments than those saying they didn't. Most of the negative comments were more of the form "I would have liked this more if...". Personally I get more value of out comments which tell me how I could make a photograph better than ones that simply massage my ego.
Originally posted by a1leyez0nm3:
I ALWAYS see comments about the DOF or Focus that are inappropriate..... |
That's just crazy talk! Are you genuinely suggesting that if you submitted an out-of-focus picture you'd feel it "inappropriate" for people to mention it? As mysql says, you are putting your pictures here for people to evaluate them - it's unlikely that the entire world will find all your pictures perfect, and frankly if you never want to read a negative comment that how are you going to learn and improve as a photographer? Or are you already perfect?
For the record, I actually would have preferred your picture with a little more DOF. But that would be an inappropriate comment I suppose..
Message edited by author 2002-12-09 04:12:00. |
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12/09/2002 04:57:04 AM · #7 |
i don't think i've ever commented negatively about depth of field. it's a concious choice on the part of the photographer almost 100% of the time, and it USUALLY works. the only negative things i could say about dof in a shot is when it could have been more shallow (ie: to blur the fence out from in front the tiger)
i commented once on the focus in an image in a negative way, but it was because there was text that should have been a little more crisp.
but... it should be noted: not everyone here has a top of the line camera. sometimes things like depth of field, focus, exposure, etc can't be controlled.
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12/09/2002 06:35:46 AM · #8 |
While I think that the very shallow DOF made your photo really interesting, I totally agree with myqyl. By participating to the challenge you asked for comments. If someone feels that the DOF is wrong, then this is his/her opinion. You can disagree with that but you really should not tell them to go away. You can't select what type of comments you get.
But I understand your frustration and I think the only way is to get even more comments. That way you also get more comments by professionals (or what you think professionals are) and more comments you may find useful.
I suggest that you join the Critique Club to help on this matter.
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12/09/2002 07:10:29 AM · #9 |
In art communities, there are those who DO and DARE, fail or succeed, and those who DON’T. Among the later category, there are those who thrive on technicalities, rules, hierarchies, bringing finally a little sense in this flaky world of esthetics and emotions.
About a contestant’s picture this week (bamaster’s “bowling glory”) I read this:
“Not even a good motion shot. In that everything except the motion is to be in focus. Here there is nothing in focus. Which I do realize you know and intended. But it's just not appealing at all to the average person though, especially to me. Sorry. PTL 1”
Help! If DOF, sharpness and rules of 1/3 were not enough, now, out of god knows where, we have the “rule of motion”.
The above-mentioned “average persons” gave this image a 5 and our talented critic a 1. Hope this person will think twice before including most of us in her divagations.
I don’t mind “nose pickers” as long as they are pleasant, discrete and have a minimum of education in the field they have decided to dispend their expertise.
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12/09/2002 09:17:10 AM · #10 |
jjbeguin, I really want you to understand this... Please keep an open mind as you read this and be assured I mean this constructively...
PTL has been here since October 15th and she has left 1217 comments...
You have been here since August 28th and you have left 60 comments...
You say there are those that DO and DARE, and those that DON'T... PLEASE do not berate the folks that are DO comment and DARE to express their opinion... I have not always agreed with PTL's comments, but I am THRILLED that she gives them. When I get a comment from her that I disagree with, I have the option to ignore it. When you leave no comment whatsoever, what option are you giving people?
I don't say this as an attack on your commenting habits... You are entitled to participate as you please. But PLEASE stop trying to get the people that are actually leaving comments to stop! Most folks that submit here WANT to get comments, even ones that tell us what someone thinks is wrong... If what you want is a pat on the back and a 'good job', I've seen sites that have already browbeat commenters into leaving nothing but compliments... Email if you need a list of them :)
Message edited by author 2002-12-09 09:42:25.
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12/09/2002 09:37:21 AM · #11 |
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12/09/2002 09:44:09 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by a1leyez0nm3:
and I had a narrow DOF for a purpose, to draw your attention away from the background (white and green {couldnt get rid of it no matter the angle}), but some people gave me the "where is the DOF?" wording.... |
And you complain about the knowledge about photography of some people.
While "where is the dof" isn't a very useful comment I don't think it was inappropriate to discuss it or to say that you (the commentator) would like to see more DOF.
Creating more DOF to get more of the flower in the field of focus with a smaller aperture was possible and you could still have a blurred background. They were not asking for an F11/22 foreground to background in focus non-blurred picture, only for an inch or two more unblurred flower. And I have to agree, it wouldn't have hurt the picture to use a 1/3th to 1 2/3 stop smaller aperture.
I'll get back on that and more, because your pic has been assigned to me for a critique club critique. That critique will not be to kick you into the dirt, but it is a comment on all the good sides of the picture and things that could be better or different.
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12/09/2002 06:07:21 PM · #13 |
a1ketezOnm3
You are talking about the "newbies to photography or this site, you are but a "newby to life" at the tender age of 16. I find it hard to believe that you can get this much rage pent up in these few years. Be careful or you will have a heart attack before you are 30 if you can't learn to take constructive criticism - and that is all that these comments are. This is genuine concern for you, I'm not being facitious or insincere. Maybe you don't think they are constructive, but you haven't been around long yet either. As for the "inappropriate commenting on photos" - the only thing inappropriate according to the rules are blantant instances of slander, profanity, vulgarity, and personal attacks. I do believe I have received a personal attack or two since I've been on here. But that doesn't bother me because everyone is entitled to their personal opinion, and that is all that ii is - "Personal Opinions". Shouting, IN CAPS IN TYPING, by a less than adult at adults is considered bad mannered, rude, crude, and very disrespectful in just about all circles of the world.
As others have said when you post your picture you are asking for comments - from all who participate. If you were to ask the "professionals only" to comment you might receive worse comments than you are getting. No one is a professional unless they get money for their photography. Guess what - I am a professional. Sorry about that, but I don't see myself as professional. I will be an amateur until I die. Cause I will always be learning. And I've looked at all you have submitted. They are not bad but you are not a professional either. You better learn that now or you have a long hard road ahead of you. And who are you to say who is a professional or not? What is your standard to judge them by? I pray you learn to relax more and enjoy photography.
jibequin
I have not just made a new "law of motion" and never did I state it was a law. Come on, be sensible. Do you not think something should be in focus in a good photograph? If not they why bother to invest all this money in these fancy cameras? Mine wasn't cheap. I did it to get good photographs, unually done on automatic setting. Who am I to think I am smarter that the "professionals" who put their technology into the camera? Also I have never called myself "a talented critic. I do think twice, and most of the times more than twice before making a comment. Which ovbiously you haven't done with your "rant" about me, the so call "nose pickers".. Do you think that is really adult and intelligent. I'd rather have people think me dumb than open my mouth and remove all doubt.
I believe I am pleasant, discrete and I DO have a minimus of education in the field. But I don't have to prove myself to anyone. Obviously you aren't and don't because you don't leave many comments. I really feel sorry for you to have to go to such lengths as to attack someone you don't even know.
myqyl
Thank you. And these people are driving away people who do care and do comment. I've thought many times of quiting and may just do that now. I've had it with all this complaining. This was supposed to be fun.
All the others
I have had many private e-mail from people about my comments on their pictures, good and bad. Sometimes they've said "thank you for the helpful comments" or I appreciate this kind of comment, it is helpful. I've even had them write and say "thanks. I tried that and it worked or yes, I tried that and i'm sending you the photo to show you how it came out. What do you think. There are a lot of really good, nice people on this site, but there are some really sad people here too. This is just how the world is. I take the good with the bad, and enjoy all that I do, inspite of people. You all need to do likewise.
Sorry to be so long, but I wanted to respond to each one. I printed out the forum so I could be sure of what was said. I wish each and every one of you a very enjoyable day and challenge.
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12/09/2002 07:17:53 PM · #14 |
nm
Message edited by author 2002-12-09 23:12:43. |
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12/09/2002 07:50:31 PM · #15 |
i'm going to cause some more waves here.
i entirely agree with the state about "those who DO and DARE." i always have. you can learn about art out of a book, but you can't be an artist that way. art is not technical. if art were purely technical, and mechanical, the human would be obsolete in it. we could have machines take pictures, paint paintings, compose sonnets, and play rachmaninoff.
what makes things truly beautiful is the human aspect in them. art is human. you can play a piano piece prefectly, with no emotion, and it's terrible. you can screw up a thousand times, and have it still be one of the most amaginly moving performances anyone'll ever hear.
the worth of a piece of art is not judged on it's technical merit. while it IS an aspect of said expression, it is by far NOT the most important one. at all.
ptl: i don't mean to start a disagreement with you here, as your comments on my pictures were pretty well thought out, and respectful that the things you didn't like were in fact my artistic decisions, that your opinion was just that, and mine was my own... but...
AGE means nothing.
you can be 6000 years old, and still take terrible pictures, or 6 and be the world's best photographer. mozart wrote some of his best stuff before he hit puberty. a1leyez0nm3's worth as a photographer should not be based on his age. having actually looked at his photography, i think he's actually rather good. he's got some good ideas about composition (not the best i've seen, but better than a lot of people), light and dark, flow of lines, etc. he more or less knows what he's doing. don't treat him like a child just because you think he is one. he's already apologized for his outburst, which is totally understandable. this place can be frustrating sometimes.
i'm not complaining, btw. i'm also not here for the competition. i know i won't place well. i'm here for the feedback, and occasionally, i get some that's interesting and helpful. i also enjoy hearing people tell me they DON'T like my art.
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12/09/2002 08:06:30 PM · #16 |
nm
Message edited by author 2002-12-09 23:13:21. |
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12/09/2002 08:12:24 PM · #17 |
One of the main arguments here is that a lot of people come here to learn and improve on their photography. I'm sure that for the most part it is true but I doubt that's always the case.
DpChallenge is, in essence, a competition. I'm sure the challenges have produced more than their share of bruised egos. I'm sure there's a number of people that submit to win, pure and simple (nothing wrong with that), and are upset when they see something they created and are attached to (their photo) do badly.
And that's a very natural human reaction.
So, whats important is that the competition remains fun and respectful. Yes, I agree that everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion and should leave plenty of comments as possible, but there is always a way to phrase a comment in a very good manner that prevents people from being frustrated.
For instance, no matter how bad a picture is, I think there's always something positive that can be said about any particular image, or something encouraging, even the ones that come in dead last - and that's what I've tried to do in my comments.
I think we would see a decrease in the number of rants if we remain constructive, respectful, and always try to point out the positive.
Just a suggestion,
Dave |
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12/09/2002 08:13:22 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by a1leyez0nm3:
maybe i do really suck at photography. maybe i should just give up now. sigh... |
i wouldn't say that.
don't believe everything you hear on here. you have to learn to accept little facts like "4 is average" and that people have their own opinions, which, in the long run don't matter in the slightest.
in fact, sometimes the measure of good art is how much other people hate it.
Message edited by author 2002-12-09 20:14:57.
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12/09/2002 08:24:42 PM · #19 |
nm
Message edited by author 2002-12-09 23:13:51. |
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12/09/2002 10:35:59 PM · #20 |
there's nothing to be sorry about?
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12/09/2002 10:47:25 PM · #21 |
Arachnophilia
I'm gong to cause the waves. You either did not read the original Thread that he posted, which you did respond to, or you have forgotten what he said. After reading yours I went back to the start and was shocked to see a totally new comment up there. Then I read his apology right above your post. I had left my home after posting my long comment at 7:17 pm, he apologized at almost 7:19pm, after I left, then you posted yours at 7:50pm. (If you would like to know what he said in the original I will let you know. I had printed it out before I replied so I could be sure and reply accurately.)
As far as referring to his age - it had nothing to do with his photography abilities. If you will re-read my comment, I referred to him being new to life - only 16 years old with a lot of pent up rage for so young, these just being personal opinions, and his disrespectfulness for his elders. I went on to suggest he had a lot to learn. I sure have learned a lot since 16. How about you? If we hadn't we would be in bad shape by now. He has all the learning about life that we have learned since we were 16. That's all. Don't read anything else into what I am saying. And yes he did apologize, a very nice apology and one I accept. I believe he has grown some from all this and I believe we all will if we will get an attitude adjustment and take the opinions and thoughts for what they are - personal opinions and thoughts, nothing more. Doesn't matter whether the person is a professional, a homeless person, a blue color worker, or a white color worker, or even president of a company. At least they cared enough to take time to look and to write a comment.
We all need to get off the ranting and spend our time really looking at the submissions and making the best constructive comments and suggestions we are capable of at this time in our life. And get back to enjoying what we are doing.
God bless all.
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12/09/2002 11:15:05 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by PTLParsons:
Arachnophilia
I'm gong to cause the waves.. |
Word of advice: dont cause waves. it is likely to stir up anger. take it from me personally |
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12/10/2002 02:05:39 AM · #23 |
sorry for misinterpretting you there. plt.
lets just move on and get back to voting and stuff.
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12/10/2002 02:07:19 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by a1leyez0nm3:
Word of advice: dont cause waves. it is likely to stir up anger. take it from me personally |
my goal in life is to not cause waves.
but my goal in art is.
sorry if i mix them up a little now and then.
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