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08/31/2005 09:32:54 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by hopper:
The challenge topic itself was just crying out for repetition. Every one of the top 10 shots has been done at least a zillion times... |
I dunno... I thought #7 was kind of original. ;-P |
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08/31/2005 09:38:35 AM · #52 |
:)
an excellent spin on spilled milk ... but if i singled you out while making my point, people would have thought i was kissin' your butt.
... which i'll gladly do if there are ribbons in it for me.
:p
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by hopper:
The challenge topic itself was just crying out for repetition. Every one of the top 10 shots has been done at least a zillion times... |
I dunno... I thought #7 was kind of original. ;-P |
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08/31/2005 09:43:56 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
So if you're feeling a little disappointed in the results, remember who the audience is. If they like strawberry splashes, well let them! It's obviously the majority that feel this way. If you disagree, that's fine too but DPC is 1/2 a test of how well you know your audience and 1/2 a test of actual photography. You need to know how to fulfill both to do well in challenges. |
Well said.
It's not clear to me why we have a thread like this after every single challenge. If I'm trying to sell something then it's my job to make sure I create a product that people actually want to buy. It's not the customers' job to change their needs and views just so that I can feel good about my product.
The voters here are the customers. If my objective is to score high, then it's my job, and my job alone, to create something that will appeal not the customers' job to try to understand me. If I don't like these customers , then I should go somewhere else.
I have only participated in a few challenges and have not done well. But I hope to participate in more (the narrow shooting time window is the problem for me) not because I hope to win or in order to change my style to score higher (as if I could!) but because I find the many comments I get on this site to be invaluable as an aid to understanding how other people see my pictures.
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08/31/2005 09:57:45 AM · #54 |
as one of the splash photos, i'm not offended by the thread... am i disapointed three of the top five were almost exactly alike? not really... they were all really well done and i now know just how hard photographing a splash is (this was my first attempt)
am i disapointed i was beat out by a cow? yeah, a little, but at least it wasn't the photo of the bull... and i beat the cat, which is good cause i'm an anti-cat person ;)
as this was only my 4th entry, i'm thrilled to death to get a top 10 finish... thanks for all the comments everyone... |
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08/31/2005 10:05:57 AM · #55 |
Someone will always moan.
The pics on the front page deserved to be there, they were good shots showing lots of skill, perseverence, creativity and that small slice of luck that comes with loads of practice.
It can be frustrating getting comments which seem to be aimed at you but think of it as jealousy and smile. |
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08/31/2005 10:09:04 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by joezl:
The voters here are the customers. If my objective is to score high, then it's my job, and my job alone, to create something that will appeal not the customers' job to try to understand me. If I don't like these customers , then I should go somewhere else. |
I feel very sad FOR your use of the concept of a job as a metaphor for DPC. While a high score is a nice thing to have, I do think there are other goals here for different people. I was happy to have read that you're finding the learning experience here a valuable one.
When started this thread, my intent was to engage in a conversation about why certain scenes/ideas, no matter how many times it'd been done before, continues to score well with a general population. I still feel that question is a valid one for us to explore, and I'm glad to have read on a number of people's takes on this.
To play a bit of a role, I'll stipulate that the search for something new, something innovative, something that's rarely (or never) been seen before, is an integral part of business and jobs, as well. The vast majority of workers do the same thing, day in - day out. They might do that same thing well, and that's great for them. But there are some other workers who innovate, and once in a while surprise themselves and the consumers with their products. In the attempt to create this novelty, they might have flopped in the past, but the search and the exploration is a part of their process. Although the end goal remains the attainment of a good product that consumers can appreciate, there's a BUZZ on the way there.
I'm interested in seeing, within DPC, more of this latter type of a process. To get a bit cheesy on this, maybe I'm questioning why in addition to aiming for something creative or something that's technically well done, we shouldn't also strive for something with a "soul."
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 10:10:21.
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08/31/2005 10:13:33 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by kudzu:
am i disapointed i was beat out by a cow? yeah, a little... |
Hey...don't knock the cow. It was a superb specimen shot with a superb lens by a superb photographer, who happens to live in a photographically superb country, utilizing superb compositional elements.
;-)
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08/31/2005 10:19:15 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by rgo:
we shouldn't also strive for something with a "soul." |
keep in mind ... we're talking about pictures of milk |
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08/31/2005 10:30:28 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by joezl:
The voters here are the customers. If my objective is to score high, then it's my job, and my job alone, to create something that will appeal not the customers' job to try to understand me. If I don't like these customers , then I should go somewhere else.
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And the customer is always right? What if they start yelling at you because you asked what they were looking for? Or what if they hit you in the head for no reason. Will they still be right?
Originally posted by hopper:
keep in mind ... we're talking about pictures of milk |
And some cows, as well as a few naked chicks.
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08/31/2005 10:36:19 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by rgo:
[quote=joezl] TTo get a bit cheesy on this, maybe I'm questioning why in addition to aiming for something creative or something that's technically well done, we shouldn't also strive for something with a "soul." |
I agree with all your comments. And this is a good thing for us individually to strive for if that's what we want to do and what gives us satisfaction. The reality though is that out of the box may give us a lot of personal satisfaction but, for better or for worse, it does have a high chance of failure - here as well as in the general marketplace. So we should all try to innovate away - just not be surprised if 9 times of of 10 it falls flat with the customers.
My only complaint is about comments that keep harping on that the voters are "wrong" in what they voted up or down.
Now - on re-reading your original post, I note that you didn't actually do that and you were just trying to stimulate a discussion on WHY some things score high and others not. So apologies for mis-reading your comment in haste - and having been conditioned by several other comments in the past.
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08/31/2005 10:42:38 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by Ennil:
And the customer is always right? What if they start yelling at you because you asked what they were looking for? Or what if they hit you in the head for no reason. Will they still be right?
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My only point is that it's the customer's choice to buy or not buy your product. It's pointless to call customers stupid because they have chosen to buy someone else's product instead.
I'm not sure whether your 'hitting you in the head' comment is a metaphor for some of the comments from DPCers. If so it's a good metaphor and, in this context, I really don't mind a few knocks on the head if it helps me improve. If I don't like the knocks, then I should maybe put a comment with my entries saying "nice comments only please".
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08/31/2005 11:19:27 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by joezl:
My only point is that it's the customer's choice to buy or not buy your product. It's pointless to call customers stupid because they have chosen to buy someone else's product instead.
I'm not sure whether your 'hitting you in the head' comment is a metaphor for some of the comments from DPCers. If so it's a good metaphor and, in this context, I really don't mind a few knocks on the head if it helps me improve. If I don't like the knocks, then I should maybe put a comment with my entries saying "nice comments only please". |
Actually no it wasn't a metaphor :P Just something I've always wondered about. Critiszim is a crucial part of the art world and something we need a lot more in here in DPC, just so everyone could improove.
It's also wrong to compare a viewer to a customer, unless we're talking about a high profile designer, because dude a sweater is not art.
I'm not blaming the voters for anything, of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am sure not blaming the photographers for producing that image, because now it's a hard image to produce. It just gets to see the same images in each challenge. All these challenges are created so we can be challenged to make something new, original that would fit the challenge. But somehow the same ideas are just used over and over again.
I was actually waiting for a lot of "Got milk?" and well that was my initial idea to began with but I just passed that, just thinking about all the portraits with the milk moustache. And I would have loved to send that in actually.
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08/31/2005 12:22:36 PM · #63 |
Thanks to Scuds for identifying my dairy entry as one of the "out of the boxers."
I had a very strong sense that it wouldn't do well but I loved the image then (which is why I used it) and I love it even more now. Thanks to everyone for their comments and to the three who selected me as a fave during the challenge.
I'm going to keep thinking out of the box. Hope you do too.
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 12:23:11. |
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08/31/2005 12:40:55 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by rgo:
Hey typo,
I hope the frankness during the challenge (re my comment on your shot) wasn't misconstrued. I wasn't trying to be wicked or patronizing, but simply voicing a "gut instinct" response to the various shots I saw. I left similar comments on a few other strawberry-milk splash shots, and then after a while just gave up each time I saw another.
I suppose you're right on in saying that commonplace is a subjective perspective. I'm glad for you that you had fun doing the shot. It's the primary reason we're here, I guess. :)
-Rob |
Hey Rob,
I was really sleepy last night so my previous response here was a bit too brief :)
No hard feelings at all about your sentiments. I really did expect it. I expected it to be reflected more in the voting during the challenge as well (i.e., voter: ANOTHER splash shot? score: 1). I'm just as surprised as everyone else at the number of strawberry splashes in the top 10. Like I said in my notes that I added after the challenge ended, I went ahead and entered this because I was curious as to whether shots like this still had appeal. I've stopped trying to figure out the voters a long time ago - every entry is like an experiment for me.
I'm conflicted because on one hand I have the natural drive to want to score well here.. this is a competition site after all.. but on the other hand I have mixed feelings with getting back into the top 5 with the splash idea. I worked on some other ideas before deciding on entering this and I just know I wouldn't have scored as high with those... makes me wonder.
Bella |
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08/31/2005 01:00:45 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by strangeghost:
Thanks to Scuds for identifying my dairy entry as one of the "out of the boxers."
I'm going to keep thinking out of the box. Hope you do too. |
Gave you an 8. As my comments says, I couldn't tell it was milk, if the challenge wasn't about dairy stuff, but then, the challenge was all about this stuff. But it still is a great image. I would love to see it on the "high contrast challenge", I'm sure it would score a whole lot better! But then, again, the ordinary things, once more, beat up the original, the unique, something you don't see on a daily basis!
Bring on the bugs, the water drops, the flowers, the splash shots! I've already tried a splash shot once, wasn't very succesfull, and for that I'll really keep thinking outside the "square thing". the heck with that, most of my challenge entries are 'weird things', which I consider not to be that ordinary! Take a look at it for urself if u want!
Most of those "ordinary" shots really are gorgeous images, but can't we think differently from time to time?
My best guess is that, we need another deja-vu challenge, in order bring on all those "xerox" type of shots!
In scuds' personal contest, you're a top 10 for sure!!!!!
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 13:07:37.
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08/31/2005 04:22:27 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by joezl:
It's not clear to me why we have a thread like this after every single challenge. |
Because we are a site of artists. And artists will always have angst. Especially when they feel they have to "sell out" (play to an audience) in order for thier art to get attention.
What harm does it do to bitch a little over milk splashes - better than going on a killing spree at the post office ;) |
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08/31/2005 04:32:22 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by mesmeraj:
Originally posted by joezl:
It's not clear to me why we have a thread like this after every single challenge. |
Because we are a site of artists. And artists will always have angst. Especially when they feel they have to "sell out" (play to an audience) in order for thier art to get attention.
What harm does it do to bitch a little over milk splashes - better than going on a killing spree at the post office ;) |
I would actually call it a debate rather than angst, sounds more artsy. But ayy... you hit it right on the spot.
Just can't keep your mouth shot can you? :P You just blew the whole thing out for me anyway.
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 16:34:01.
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08/31/2005 04:32:39 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by mesmeraj:
Originally posted by joezl:
It's not clear to me why we have a thread like this after every single challenge. |
Because we are a site of artists. And artists will always have angst. Especially when they feel they have to "sell out" (play to an audience) in order for thier art to get attention.
What harm does it do to bitch a little over milk splashes - better than going on a killing spree at the post office ;) |
I would actually call it a debate rather than angst, sounds more artsy. But ayy... you hit right on the spot.
Just can't keep your mouth shot can you? :P You just blew the whole thing out for me anyway.
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08/31/2005 04:35:59 PM · #69 |
| youre not old enough for angst yet Ennil, give it a couple more years and you'll get bitter enough hahaha. |
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08/31/2005 04:41:17 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Ennil:
I'm not blaming the voters for anything, of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am sure not blaming the photographers for producing that image, because now it's a hard image to produce. It just gets to see the same images in each challenge. All these challenges are created so we can be challenged to make something new, original that would fit the challenge. But somehow the same ideas are just used over and over again.
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The biggest problem with any challenge is that everyone who submits a photograph, thinks theirs is original and that no-one else will do the same thing. I don't think it is a case of copying a winning idea that creates duplicate entries, but people thinking along the same lines.
The same thing is going to happen in the Branch challenge, loads of tree branches, bank signs etc. All will think they have chosen that one special, different shot...when in truth there will be a number of similar shots. It is not a lack of creativity or orginality...just a case of 300+ minds thinking along the same lines, hence duplicates.
Thats my take on it.
Steve |
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08/31/2005 04:48:43 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by mesmeraj:
youre not old enough for angst yet Ennil, give it a couple more years and you'll get bitter enough hahaha. |
Inconceivable! Now I'm angry!
I thought angst was only with teenagers :/ That still means I have time right?
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08/31/2005 04:50:47 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by Ennil:
Originally posted by mesmeraj:
youre not old enough for angst yet Ennil, give it a couple more years and you'll get bitter enough hahaha. |
Inconceivable! Now I'm angry!
I thought angst was only with teenagers :/ That still means I have time right? |
Nah, thats moping - you get angst when your parents stop paying for things for you lol. |
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08/31/2005 04:56:25 PM · #73 |
Well rgo, I had a look at your entries and I saw absolutely nothing NEW there. Every shot was a variation of something I have seen before. So, have you nothing new to contribute here?
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08/31/2005 05:05:54 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Well rgo, I had a look at your entries and I saw absolutely nothing NEW there. Every shot was a variation of something I have seen before. So, have you nothing new to contribute here? |
Oh that was really uncalled for, bad and really not debaty. And this is kind of a personal attack that could get way out of hand.
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 17:06:46.
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08/31/2005 05:27:30 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by Ennil:
Originally posted by David Ey:
Well rgo, I had a look at your entries and I saw absolutely nothing NEW there. Every shot was a variation of something I have seen before. So, have you nothing new to contribute here? |
Oh that was really uncalled for, bad and really not debaty. And this is kind of a personal attack that could get way out of hand. |
Wouldn't worry, that's just the kind of crap i'd have expected this thread to spawn. And since when are we here to "contribute" something? This is a contest site, not a cooperative community of some kind. Although given even that i'm not sure what business any of us have judging how much someone else "contributes" here.
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