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08/31/2005 11:06:46 AM · #26 |
Just reported on Fox.
The Army core of engineers said if the main levee breach is not plugged today the complete city of New Orleans will be under a minimum of 15 feet of water. |
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08/31/2005 11:11:19 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Also, these levees I think are earthen dams - piles of dirt. If you let both sides soak in water, does not that then saturate the levee and make it a pile of mud, that will easily collapse? |
True, especially when it has been dry for a long while. Small cracks allow a lot of water in. In Holland we had some dikes collapsing lately after they became saturated. Fortunately those were river dikes, those can dry out. The others at sea and lakes take some strenght from being wet I believe.
I'm no expert, but the rebuilding of 'levees' or dikes and the pumping out of all that water is not a matter of weeks. It will be many months and perhaps up to many years depending on plans to perhaps strengthen the sea defence systems. Excluding the spoiled ground (salt, oil, chemicals, heavy metals etc etc).
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08/31/2005 11:13:30 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
New Orleans
Why such a disaster? In part, there is much question toward the state and local governments as to why none of the known issues were addressed:
1) Levee's - why were these at what was known to be too low of a level? why were these still made of dirt?
These should have been upgraded. They have been stating the known inadequacy of the dikes and levees for a couple decades. Now it's much too late.
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'people' are very shortsighted. We know that oil is not being made anymore, and it will run out. but people buy SUVs, drive needlessly, have 400+ hp cars...this is shortsighted thinking also.
Originally posted by theSaj:
2) Pumping stations....why were these structures NOT elevated. Had the pumping structures and related generators been on simple steel/cement framed structures to elevate them they would still be pumping out water as we speak.
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It would do no good. They pump the water from the low city to the...lake that is now flowing into the city over the broken levees. Until the inflow is stopped it is rather pointless.
Originally posted by theSaj:
3) Electrical systems - why are their live power lines. Why do we not have the ability to "turn off" the power grid during such situations in a controlled and safe manner. Live electrical wires has cause much difficulty for rescuers.
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Good question.
Originally posted by theSaj:
In truth, the statement that they will likely NOT rebuild New Orleans is probably accurate. There is just too much devestation. My likely guess is that they'll try to preserve some of the oldest historic areas such as the French quarter as best they can. The rest of the city they will fill in with landfill, essentially raising the sea level by some 10-20ft. (If this sounds crazy to you, it's actually a quite common practice. It was done in San Franscisco and even my small city of New Haven has an immense area that is built on what was in fact fill. |
I bet they rebuild. The difference between genious and stupidity is that stupidity knows no limits. All along the eastern coast teh population continues to grow...and hurricanes continue to wreak havok. if 'people' had brains, they'd NOT build and live where such disasters happen. Insurance or not, I chose not to live where natural disasters are likely to happen. Smart? nah, common sense!
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08/31/2005 11:13:32 AM · #29 |
Another issue is bio-contaminatin. As I understand it, most of New Orleans "dead" were buried in above ground cemetaries. That means they will likely all begin to re-hydrate and rot.
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08/31/2005 11:15:34 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
...but this disaster was bound to happen. Just a matter of time. You can't expect a city below sea level to remain intact. The city, it's officials and residentrs were lucky to get away with it for as long as they did. |
We built an entire country under the sea level. :)
A history full of disasters and continuous updates to the sea defence systems. It can be done but it will cost a *load of money.
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08/31/2005 11:21:00 AM · #31 |
edit - removed post...
This is a human suffering issue.
Sorry to derail.
:-(
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 13:17:18.
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08/31/2005 11:24:09 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by theSaj:
New Orleans
1) Levee's - why were these at what was known to be too low of a level? why were these still made of dirt?
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Because a concrete system might cost about the same, if not more than the damage that is done now. We did a part of the Dutch coast and it costs were several billion dollars with a timespan of about thirty years.
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08/31/2005 11:28:04 AM · #33 |
Here's my insight on rebuilding, based on what has happened here in Florida:
Resources were already strained before the massive damage that just occurred.
It takes as long as 6 months to get an insurance adjuster to look at your damage. It can take as long as a year to get a settlement (which is inevitably about 1/3 of actual repair cost).
Finding a contractor is like finding a needle in a haystack. Finding a good contractor who is willing to haggle with Ins. Companies and drop their profit margin from 50% down to 20% is like finding a diamond in your backyard.
Many crucial building materials are already tapped out. Concrete is being rationed and plywood is almost worth it's weight in gold. People are waiting as long as a year for a roof, because of the shortage of asphalt and concrete shingles. Steel roofs are also extremely costly.
Almost all of those homes in NO are so damaged that they will be considered a complete loss. The homes that remain will be uninhabitable, due to mold. This means razing virtually everything and starting from scratch.
They are not being truthful when they project things "getting back to normal" in 12 weeks.
These people cannot "go home" because there is not going to be a home to go to.
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08/31/2005 11:30:20 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Found this, posted by a friend of mine, on another forum... Unbelievable!!! >:-(
Yahoo clears up the difference for us when it comes to looting and finding.
If you're black it's called Looting.
If you're white it's called Finding. |
No bias there what-so-ever ;p
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08/31/2005 11:32:54 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Found this, posted by a friend of mine, on another forum... Unbelievable!!! >:-(
Yahoo clears up the difference for us when it comes to looting and finding.
Edited
Edited |
I think this is taken out of context. Different reporters, different reports. Unfortunately they used two different words to describe the situation. I think many of us would have a hard time finding the right (or politically correct) words to describe what we would be seeing.
Would this post of even been posted if it was switched around? Lets not make this a race issue. This is a Human suffering issue of all race. And be the person black, white, purple or green. If it takes looting or finding (however you wish to phrase it) of food, water, or medical supplies to survive then let them.
If they (referring to all people) are taking TV's, Computer, etc - things that don't pertain to maintaining life then its a crime.
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 14:00:19. |
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08/31/2005 11:47:18 AM · #36 |
the little bit i saw on the news of looters, it was clothing and small appliane type things they were taking. while wading in 3' deep water...that was rising.
Really stupid behavior, really stupid people. perhaps they will drown, or get shot.
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08/31/2005 11:49:57 AM · #37 |
It's interesting to note that the photo of the young black man carrying the bag was not identified as looting on the BBC or MSNBC (I think those were the two websites I saw that picture on)...this discussion is going on in another forum I belong to so I did a little digging on how 'grocery getters' were being identified:
BBC - black people - identified as looters
CNN - black man - "a young man drags groceries..."
Reuters - white couple - "A man, dragging a woman on a floating door with supplies..."
CBS - black man - "A man carries a bucket of beer..."
CBS - unidentifiable - "Looters make their way into and out of a grocery store.."
CBS - black woman - "A woman walks through chest-deep water as she heads to a grocery store..."
MSNBC - Hispanic man - "New Orleans police flush out suspected looters..."
MSNBC - black man - "A young man wades away..." |
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08/31/2005 11:59:38 AM · #38 |
um...the woman in the "Finding" pic is also black.
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08/31/2005 12:03:20 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by sher9204:
um...the woman in the "Finding" pic is also black. |
Then I really need to have my monitor calibrated. |
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08/31/2005 12:04:20 PM · #40 |
Yeah enough with trying to find people who aren't being PC and turing everything into an issue. If people, black or white were running into stores trying to get food or water or something necessary to survive, I don't think I could hold that against them at all.
If they are running in and stealing a new television or computer....then they are just souless assholes, black or white.
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 12:04:51. |
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08/31/2005 12:08:58 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by rscorp:
Yeah enough with trying to find people who aren't being PC and turing everything into an issue. If people, black or white were running into stores trying to get food or water or something necessary to survive, I don't think I could hold that against them at all.
If they are running in and stealing a new television or computer....then they are just souless assholes, black or white. |
I totally agree with that. |
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08/31/2005 12:14:56 PM · #42 |
I think it was a simple error on the part of the editor to ensure consistency...most of the other news networks had no such problems with consistency.
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08/31/2005 12:18:40 PM · #43 |
Has anyone heard from Julia Bailey?
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08/31/2005 12:19:42 PM · #44 |
| She has posted that she had safely left the city a couple days ago, but she must be devastated at this point. |
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08/31/2005 12:19:48 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by rscorp:
Yeah enough with trying to find people who aren't being PC and turing everything into an issue. If people, black or white were running into stores trying to get food or water or something necessary to survive, I don't think I could hold that against them at all.
If they are running in and stealing a new television or computer....then they are just souless assholes, black or white. |
exactly right! the LA government officials have stated that they perfectly understand people taking food and water to take care of their families. looting stores for material goods is just stealing, plain and simple.
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08/31/2005 12:24:16 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by sher9204:
um...the woman in the "Finding" pic is also black. |
Please recallibrate your monitor before you vote on my shoes pleeeeeese!!!!!
:)
(she definitely is white and has a tatoo on her arm)
:)
P
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08/31/2005 12:36:24 PM · #47 |
Looting theives is what they were, all running around the grocery store, like it was party time, kicking in doors that they "FOUND", looked like all the necessities were STOLEN first, cigaretts, liquor... Oh my favorite was the cool brothas pushing a dumpster they "FOUND" full of beer , looked like about 60 boxes of Nikes, and Bread, time for them fried bologna samichez.
It takes an Idiot to ignore the types of people thast were observed LOOTING, do the math 99% WHO?
Message edited by author 2005-08-31 12:37:24. |
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08/31/2005 12:43:28 PM · #48 |
Regardless of what you call it or who is doing it; none of that would be happening if the evcacuation orders had been heeded. I imagine this will cause city officials to reconsider how they enforce evacuations in the future.
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08/31/2005 12:43:33 PM · #49 |
| Lets put this in perspective. All of New Orleans will be evacuated. All of New Orleans will go under 23 feet of water. Everyone in New Orleans will lose everything they own, their homes, their city, their jobs, their neighborhoods. As the water is rising, everything in those stores will be underwater soon anyways. Sure it is looting but under the circumstanses beer, cigarettes and liquor probably are necessities. |
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08/31/2005 12:53:06 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by gusto:
It takes an Idiot to ignore the types of people thast were observed LOOTING, do the math 99% WHO? |
careful. you're teetering on a ToS violation with that one. |
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