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07/26/2002 03:53:27 PM · #26 |
| I don't know about the rest of you but my only idea for the corporate challenge goes out the door when I leave work today (literally). Since I don't have my camera with me I won't be able to take the picture. I'm guessing if we don't get in a bunch of submissions tonight, then we may have the smallest challenge we have had in months. |
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07/26/2002 04:24:37 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by shortredneck:
[i]What's wrong with the current system? Drew and Langdon took off the minimum required votes and comments. What more could we want?
I like the current system, too. Actually, I didn't mind the minimum requirements either. Yea, two weeks with over 200 pictures could be taxing, but I don't think that is the rule, YET. Friday afternoon, and there is 34 so far.
[/i]
I like the current set up as well, but it could be cumbersome when it grows to 400 or 500 pictures. (and they have made this a fun place, so it will) - If Dropping photos in the lower range is in the works, it will need to be done after reaching a certian number of votes - not Tue, Wed Thurs. -
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07/26/2002 04:26:58 PM · #28 |
| i still think we should try and find a solution that doesn't require dropping submission. anyone who goes through the effort to take and submit a photo for a challenge (no matter how good or bad i think that photo is) deserves the curtesy of staying in the challenge and receiving votes and feedback. |
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07/26/2002 04:34:32 PM · #29 |
I don't know whether I like the idea of dropping photos or not.
When we get over 200 photos what are the odds that the bottom photos of the over 200 will get any comments or enough to make it worthwhile to stay in the voting. Maybe there are some statistics Drew and Langdon could refer to in order to determine this.
Maybe if we get over 200 photos the bottom scoring photos (Not scoring in the top 200) by Wednesday are dropped.
By Friday the next 100 are dropped so that the weekend voting is restricted to the top 100 photos.
The dropped photos are moved over to another pile for commenting and stuff but not part of the vote any longer.
This all doesn't affect me that much. I have a fast cable connect and I will take the time to vote on 500 photos if needed. I may not comment on more than 20 or 30 but I have no trouble leaving a vote. |
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07/26/2002 04:49:53 PM · #30 |
Two suggestions (similar to 2ndgear above):
1) Randomize the submissions into two (or more) groups, with say a minimum of 65 and a maximum of 130 (OK, 129). Each voter is also randomized into one of the groups, but may also vote on the others if they want. As the number of submissions grows, the number of groups may increase, but the voting burden should remain relatively constant.
2) If you submit to a challenge, you must vote on all (or some high percentage) of the photos in the "your" group or your photo will drop into an "unranked" pool at the end of the results and be eliminated from awards consideration. This means the final score will disappear, but the comments will remain. Or leave the scores, but make the photo ineligble for a "prize."
This will put a cap on the maximum "required" number of votes without eliminating any photo from consideration/comments. Having the "vote to submit" requirement for the curent challenge instead of the previous ones should eliminate most of the "vacation" concerns, and (as was pointed out by gr8photos) doesn't require voting on a challenge the photographer isn't interested in (think of your votes as the "entry fee" for that challenge).
I can't see any fair way to eliminate any photos from the competition -- I think it's important for those (of us) spending a LOT of time here to remember that other "serious" participants may only have one or two days during the week to participate, like maybe Saturday.
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07/26/2002 04:50:55 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Gotcha:
If Dropping photos in the lower range is in the works, it will need to be done after reaching a certian number of votes - not Tue, Wed Thurs. -
[/i]
Excellent solution Gotcha
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07/26/2002 04:53:37 PM · #32 |
| gr8photos, Im not suggesting remove them from comments remove them from HAVING to vote on them. Bottom line with the challenge is if your score is in the lower % anyway. You havent got a shot at a ribbon if your photo is in or out of the running. |
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07/26/2002 04:54:02 PM · #33 |
| Hokie forgive me but what you just suggested sounded like voting three times? or else you are saying late votes should let other's decide what's worth voting on? hmmm aelith |
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07/26/2002 05:00:13 PM · #34 |
mags ... you don't 'have' to vote on anything. there's no minimum requirement anymore.
Originally posted by MagsCoyote:
gr8photos, Im not suggesting remove them from comments remove them from HAVING to vote on them. Bottom line with the challenge is if your score is in the lower % anyway. You havent got a shot at a ribbon if your photo is in or out of the running.
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07/26/2002 05:18:33 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by aelith:
Hokie forgive me but what you just suggested sounded like voting three times? or else you are saying late votes should let other's decide what's worth voting on? hmmm aelith
I was just saying that if by wednsday you are below the top 200 scoring photos you get moved out of the voting pile and into "comments only pile" or whatever.
The scoring continues with no "new" votes and then Friday midnight the top 100 move on to the weekend.
No new votes..just the current voting.
Folks..I know people want to stay optimistic but I have never seen more than a full point change and most of the time its more like a half a point change after about tuesday or the first 150 votes.
If you are averaging about a 5 you are out of the running for a ribbon by wednesday anyway.
I have had a couple score below a 5 and I would sorta like to end the pain myself by wednesday anyway. All I am looking for after that is a comment and I can get that without being in the active voting section.
I am one of the people that say "Let it ride" but I have a blazing internet connect (2megs a sec) time to vote when I want and a willingness to vote on photos but I must admit..I lose enthusiasm at about 250 photos and would rather be working on my next photo than wading through a pile of photos.
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07/26/2002 06:11:12 PM · #36 |
Yes Hokie you are right about the score not changing much by mid week. Four entries and my only 5 came after the final adjustment. But I would find what you proposal very discouraging especially as there is not much time for feedback and corrections after the contest.
And someone has to still give that initial ranking vote to all the pictures before you can start droping pics so I don't see how this helps the big numbers problem. aelith
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07/26/2002 06:25:23 PM · #37 |
As I said, I'm not a big fan of dropping photos and since we don't require a minimum number of photos you must vote on anymore who cares if we have 5,000 photos..just vote on what you can.
Although I suspect if we get much over 300 photos there are going to be a lot more photos who dont get a vote
than we have seen in the past so dropping photos in the mid-week may be a necessity.
I can't say...I think large numbers of photos tend to get tedious to many. I know I really don't pay attention to the photos like I did when the numbers were at 100 entries.
Every competition I know of weeds out the participants in steps..I think people here would not notice anything that isn't already going on everywhere else in the world of competition.
Unfortnately, the learning aspect diminishes the more photos we have..sorta like having 500 students in a classroom versus 50 :-) I think that analogy we can all relate to.
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07/26/2002 06:39:38 PM · #38 |
| I hope in the next challenge only one person votes on my photo and gives me a 10,.. ill be sure to win (evil laugh....hahahha) |
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07/26/2002 06:41:50 PM · #39 |
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07/26/2002 07:12:34 PM · #40 |
| If this happens, I hope someone starts a site for the little folks to learn on. I doubt many people kicked out on Wendsday would ever submit again. |
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07/27/2002 04:49:16 AM · #41 |
| You're missing the point. Those people would NOT get kicked out. They would simply be moved to a non-challenge voting section or something like that. |
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07/27/2002 04:54:08 AM · #42 |
| Just as the voting for each voter is random. Make each voter have a random set of pictures (approx 100) that they vote on. When they vote in their group, the winner gets posted with other winners of the other groups. The final procedure would be everyone gets to vote on the finalists. |
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07/27/2002 07:49:10 AM · #43 |
i am opposed to picture dropped from the challenge.
from the thumbnail view of the pictures (vote.asp), one can design it in such a way that he can pick candidate pictures, somehow group pictures to his/her liking. This way he can maybe ignore the pictures he/she did not select in his first round(fetch). If he has the time he can fetch some more candidate pictures then. This way everyone has a chance to rise-up. |
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07/27/2002 09:37:56 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by gja2600:
Just as the voting for each voter is random. Make each voter have a random set of pictures (approx 100) that they vote on. When they vote in their group, the winner gets posted with other winners of the other groups. The final procedure would be everyone gets to vote on the finalists.
Would you still vote if you were cut from the final group?
Autool |
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07/27/2002 10:07:50 AM · #45 |
Say what you want about not wanting this to change or that to change and predicting doom if you drop photos or whatever but when the challenge gets 300+ photos on a regular basis people will be BEGGING for a change.
I will probably be one of the last people asking for a change. I just cannot imagine the time it will take for over 300 photos and a 56k connect. My connection is 40 times faster but my daughter has her own 56k connect at ..what is it..5.2k per second!!!
By the way..Why would someone not participate again if they were dropped or whatever. Seems to me that it would encourage them to be a better photographer.
My take on the drops is the challenge would turn into a challenge within a challenge.
Make a photo good enough to last past wednesday (or whatever initial marker) then a photo good enough to get to the weekend. Goals within a goal.
In golf, tennis, hell..even cheerleading has rounds of cuts. I just cannot see the big difference here. Its competition first and foremost...the learning aspect goes out the window when we get so many photos.
Now its a matter of being the most effecient way of handling a COMPETITION.
If someone wants (really wants to learn..not just lip service) they will participate in the forums and other opportunities here beyond the vote. Thats where the ideas are really tested and discussed. |
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07/27/2002 10:13:06 AM · #46 |
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but here's a totally unprocessed idea--fresh off the top of my head. What if we locked down those eligible to submit/photographers now. People could 'apply' to become submitters but would have to wait (1st come 1st serve) for an opening before they got in. Openings would be made when an already existing submitter fails to submit to a challenge for 3 weeks in a row (they'd be tossed and have to go through the waiting list to get back on/in).
Pro: # of submissions won't get out of control.
Pro: a smaller community is (imo) nice
Con: sure would bite if you got booted
Con: we'd become semi-elitest
Con: would probably also limit any income d&l want to bring in from this site.
That said, I'm not sure what d&l have in mind for this site...it may totally conflict with their vision.
Putting on my nomex (flame retardent jumper)...comments?
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07/27/2002 10:23:08 AM · #47 |
Lisa..all comments are good...just thank god for those willing to talk about it :-)
Heres how stuff everywhere works. You set up a program and people play until it ain't fun anymore.
I think the site is still fun. so do lots of others or we wouldn't be growing.
BUT...when the grumblings start as they have its usually a very good idea to brainstorm in the open and see where the general trend of thinking goes.
Personally, I see most people willing to set limits of some kind. That seems to be a common theme but the SPECIFICS differ.
Some people (like myself for instance) say let everybdoy submit on sunday (however many it is) and start to weed the numbers out as the week goes on. That way we let everybody fight it out at the start like the Boston Marathon does and we start to weed out the slower runners.
Some people want to have divisions. Divisions based on skill, or topic or whatever.
Some people want to have memberships.
Some want to have lottery drawings.
But the common theme is limits. So it seems inevitable that we will have some limit plan or whatever coming soon I would predict.
My vote just goes to keeping everybody in the same pool idea for as long as we can. Whatever plan accomplishes this I would lean toward. I don't like dividing people up or limiting submissions. |
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07/27/2002 10:40:32 AM · #48 |
My issues with dropping photos from the vote:
1. If we drop photos from voting and put them in a non-vote area...say what you will, they will not get very much feedback because people aren't forced to look at them and no-one likes to comment on the low-ends anyway.
2. I don't think the scores early in the week reflect the same thing the scores at the end of the week reflect. I'm guessing it's primarily the non-photog's that vote late in the week because they aren't camping out here to watch there scores from 11pm Sunday night. I personally want the non-photog pov included in my score...they're opinion matters to me. My scores have changed 'significantly' (up to 3/10's I think) towards the end of of the week...sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. That 3/10's does make quite a difference in where you rank.
I don't think I'm making much sense so I'll end it there. |
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07/27/2002 10:58:45 AM · #49 |
I am just one lone opinion. :-)
I don't care where I rank specifically. I care generally.
Meaning if I get lucky and hit a winning photo..cool.
If I get a top 10..cool.
If I get in top 25%..cool
If I get bottom 25%..not so cool but that's life :-(
But I don't care if if get 99th or 80th which is a 2/10th of a point difference. Small variations like that are just blips in the stats and mean nothing to me.
My point is (once again..just my one person out of a million opinion) If I get dropped so what? I still participate in the forums, I still take photos for the next challenge, I still talk about photography stuff. I am not concerned about the 1/10th of a point variations or whether I finish 102nd or 167th or whatever. Thats not photography for me.
Not to say other folks don't have a different desire at this site. They probably do. I'm not going to be able to relate to their opinions and they maybe won't relate to mine and thats about all you can say :-)
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07/27/2002 11:28:51 AM · #50 |
No.
We must get more rigid with the contest aspect of this site.
Therefore I propose the following:
The winner is given rulership of a small island in the Caribbean.
The top 3 get mansions.
The top 50% get top of the line cameras.
On the other side of the scale --
The bottom 50% get their usernames changed to doodoo.
The bottom 10% are exiled to a place with no cameras.
The bottom ten rankers are put to death.
;) |
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