Rainy results - DPChallenge Forums

08/22/2005 08:51:06 PM · #26

honestly I didn't do to much dodge and burning. Just a little on the grass and the hills to give it more depth. Hardly any at all.

08/22/2005 08:52:42 PM · #27

Color version

08/22/2005 08:53:43 PM · #28

but you have to fight the force............it scares me to think people believe that a being 'liked' is that important..........that by getting a better score you have learned the 'right' things..............

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/22/2005 08:56:43 PM · #29

'sonifo' this picture has, on my monitor anyway, a strange 3D look about it........why is that? (if it is that at all!?)

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

08/22/2005 08:57:43 PM · #30

Originally posted by azoychka:

What is your point? This is a Photo contest site where the winner wins by popular vote...if that inconveniences you then move on...

08/22/2005 08:58:09 PM · #31

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by kyebosh:
dodge and burn = win.

Not always but you're right that it is an extremely popular look here. Maybe a little too popular.

...but you can't fight The Force.

"Come to the Dark Side and burn...baby...burn!!!
-Darth V

08/22/2005 09:00:51 PM · #32

because 'doctornick' you do not define this experience for all.....if that is a problem you move on..........

Tamron AF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical for Nikon

08/22/2005 09:00:56 PM · #33

Originally posted by azoychka:

'sonifo' this picture has, on my monitor anyway, a strange 3D look about it........why is that? (if it is that at all!?)

Look at my settings on the winning photo. You will see my shutterspeed was 3.2 seconds and my aperture was f/11. Made everything be in focus except for the swaying grass. It is all in the settings. :-))

vtruan

Nikon D5100

08/22/2005 09:00:57 PM · #34

My outtakes looked like the wonderful winners, I chose wrong again. When will I learn.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

08/22/2005 09:01:48 PM · #35

Originally posted by elsapo:

Originally posted by kyebosh:
depends what you think overprocessed is... These look close to the line to me at least.

i was referring to my entry cause I got lots of comments about the processing (and i admit i over did it) ;)

Heh, and you *still* came in 11th place, which tells you a lot about what the voters like. :)

pawdrix

Nikon D700

08/22/2005 09:02:04 PM · #36

Originally posted by azoychka:

It's only one of many techniques that goes into these photo's and it's not always used...quite often but not always.

DPC is an amazing place to learn good strong technique and that's the real "force" that I give into. You are either artistic or you are not but having a good strong technical foundation is where it's at. Once you have good technical skills they will take you anywhere you wish to go. Without a good foundation you really limit your ability to express yourself.

....but don't get lost and let the technique overtake you...that's the trick.

Message edited by author 2005-08-22 21:13:18.

08/22/2005 09:04:52 PM · #37

Originally posted by azoychka:

I guess it is what makes a person go "WOW" that makes a great shot..there is not right or wrong in photography. It is an art that can be used and manipulated to change the outcome of the original file. This has been going on from the beginning. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Sorry if I misunderstood what your point was. :-)

Sony DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Super Wide Angle Zoom

08/22/2005 09:07:52 PM · #38

Originally posted by azoychka:

Here, as with any other commercial venue, you learn to provide what the customer wants, or you don't make the sale or get the votes.

Yes, it sucks when your customers or voters don't like the same stuff you do (hell, I've got a lot of sympathy for that, since the shots I score highly often get buried below the 50% mark, while the majority of the top ten consists of shots I scored quite low), but you either provide what they want, find a different audience, or fail. That's just the way it works. You can't change what a given audience likes without changing the audience, and unless you're going to bring a few hundred of your friends with the same taste as you have into DPC, that's not going to happen.

JPR

Sony Alpha a55

08/22/2005 09:23:20 PM · #39

Originally posted by elsapo:

I'm in the same boat as you elsapo!

08/22/2005 09:32:38 PM · #40

Originally posted by Sonifo:

Well, there's a certain philosophy of photography that puts a premium on storytelling and emotional reaction, and less on eye candy. This shows up in my own scoring mechanism, for instance:

Relevance: A base of 1 point, 3 points, or 5 points, depending on whether you conformed well to the challenge, missed it but I can see what you were trying to do, or missed it completely. Being in a very bad mood can make me tighten this up (a huge number of shots in Time Machine got tagged 1 by this, with an additional -1 bias point that I'll explain below), but it's otherwise fairly relaxed, and only a few shots in any given challenge start with less than 5 points when I'm voting.

Technical: -2 to +1. This doesn't budge from zero much, either. Minor flaws get disregarded, and only if there are obvious or glaring focus, exposure, or postprocessing issues do points get deducted. Multiple issues get the -2. A completely flawless image will very rarely merit a +1 out of me.

Interest: -1 to +2. If it's snapshot-like, or nothing at all makes it particularly memorable, it gets +0. If it's particularly tedious, or I can't even figure out what I'm looking at, it gets -1. Pictures that make me stop for a moment to investigate get +1. Shots that make me want to stop and examine it for a while, show me somethin new, or are memorable get +2. This is the easiest way to get bonus points out of me, and a lot of images get stuck at 7 when I'm scoring here. It's often the cap on my votes on the top ten or even twenty scorers, even.

Emotion: +0 to +2. Zero points if there's no emotional connection. +1 point if the image evokes ... something. Anything. A smile, sympathy, sadness, revulsion, whatever. A lot of DPC voters score down heavily for 'negative' emotional responses, but it's not possible to get a negative out of me for this (except possibly for the bias point at the end).

Bias: -1 to +1. There's no way to get around the fact that I want to nudge an entry up or down a little for personal reasons, but I force myself to constrain it to +/- 1 point. The bonus point generally accrues on images of cats being cute, a strong sympathetic response, promoting science, catching one of my hobbies, or presenting the positive side of humanity in a way that tugs at me. Negative points accrue for gratuitous use of sex, promotion of violence or negative aspects of humanity, or a lack of reality in an image (i.e. if I can't suspend disbelief long enough to accept that if I stood where the photographer was standing, I might have seen that sight with my own two eyes, it's likely to accrue a negative bias point).

Note that even with full relevance, a technical bonus, and full interest, it's only possible to get up to a 9 from me without catching one of my specific biases -- and, perhaps oddly, I'm quite loathe to give a final bias point if the emotion score was zero. This means that it's practically impossible to get a ten out of me without telling some kind of story or having some kind of emotive connection.

It also means that I am so completely out of sync with the rest of the DPC voters that my votes sometimes even get discarded by the automatic system (at least, I suspect that's what it means when the vote results show my individual votes on the thumbnail results page, but the number doesn't show up in red on the full image page). There's a kind thought... if you disagree strongly enough with the majority, you won't even be counted.

But that's just the way it goes. I'm still here because I'm fairly certain there's a paying audience with the same tastes as DPC, and I'm going to need practice processing images for it. It also forces me to get out of the house and take pictures more often, though not so much recently since I'm so far backlogged on all the pictures I've taken in the last few months that I'm spending my time processing rather than taking more.

08/22/2005 09:34:26 PM · #41

'pawdrix' I agree...a strong foundation is important. With it you have a chance of understanding what you are doing and from there master it to serve you.........even if you abandon it for a creation. There are many reasons for what happens here, all valid and important but I hope that our minds remain open and we don't become pompous and all knowing about what is or isn't valuable......as for bringing 'a few hundred friends into DPC to chance what appeals to IT'S taste, has it ever crossed your mind that what the audience here 'likes' could be an excellent tool for someone who seeks something different? That the voting here can help you in less obvious ways..................

08/22/2005 09:37:02 PM · #42

'Zed Pobre' it is an extremely harsh method of assessment when you 'take away' marks.........

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

08/22/2005 09:40:39 PM · #43

Originally posted by azoychka:

'Zed Pobre' it is an extremely harsh method of assessment when you 'take away' marks.........

Why? I think he has a good way of voting. Everyone votes differently. I don't agree with people who give low votes and go to their profile and see their shots suck. LOL..what are they thinking?

pawdrix

Nikon D700

08/22/2005 09:41:22 PM · #44

To paraphrase or borrow from what someone said before, try to look at DPC voters like they are a client. It's an intersting way to go about shooting and if you're smart you can also be quite artistic at the same time but try to still appeal to certain moods and tastes.

That approach has been working well for me lately and is perfect for what I'm trying to accomplish and learn. I enjoy post processing but don't like to get too lost in it. If I need to apply things somewhere, when necessary, my abilities are getting better by the day...at least I think I'm getting better.

My Rain entry is the most post processed thing I've ever entered and I had a great time doing it. Playing with different filters and selective color layers was a blast. I like Street Photography and I found a new and interesting way to apply PS tricks to what I love...so there wasn't much of a compromise since I dig the results. Just another trick in the bag that I can give or take.

Message edited by author 2005-08-22 21:47:32.

08/22/2005 09:55:32 PM · #45

Originally posted by azoychka:

'Zed Pobre' it is an extremely harsh method of assessment when you 'take away' marks.........

If it makes you feel better, you can start the relevance baseline at either 1, -1, or -3 for relevance, then add a point to technical, two points to interest, and one point to bias, so they'll all end up +0 or higher. The relative weighting wouldn't change.

The point, you see, is to have a system that makes use of the entire 'dynamic range' of the available scoring sensor, without blowing the highlights of the challenge or dumping everything into the shadows. I like to do this by metering for a 5, so I don't have to compensate while I'm thinking, but if you like to start low and go with a higher scoring compensation, feel free.

(I'm aiming for a +1 emotive bonus on this post, if you couldn't tell.)

08/22/2005 09:55:51 PM · #46

'sonifo' whether their photos 'suck' or not the idea of voting very low is in itself an extremely suspect practise. Actually it is completely meaningless and with no validity other than as an expression of some frustrated miserable soul! :-) As for your support of 'Pobre's' voting system, how do you justify minus marks? Also about your photograph.....there is a 3D effect to it. I wonder why? How is that produced? It seems likely that it is more than just your settings?

08/22/2005 10:01:25 PM · #47

such as atmosphere, maybe?