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08/21/2005 12:47:18 AM · #26 |
Oh yeah - one point to add... I am a registered Democrat, BUT I have voted Republican when I felt that they were a better candidate in particular races (i.e., Washington DC, Philadelphia, Tennessee - all places I've resided), so for those of you out there thinking I'm just publishing a left-wing message - you're wrong.
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08/21/2005 01:07:35 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by SJCarter:
Thank you Olyuzi... To me, it is simply amazing that the population of the USA is so oblivious or simply obstinate to the facts at hand. |
The "facts at hand" are the ones fed to the majority of the US people though a corrupt and greed driven conglomerate media. New facts come to light all the time but go unreported in the mainstream. The obvious bias in the mainstream media is totally shocking, IMHO.
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08/21/2005 01:10:08 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by barndog:
Originally posted by SJCarter:
Thank you Olyuzi... To me, it is simply amazing that the population of the USA is so oblivious or simply obstinate to the facts at hand. |
The "facts at hand" are the ones fed to the majority of the US people though a corrupt and greed driven conglomerate media. New facts come to light all the time but go unreported in the mainstream. The obvious bias in the mainstream media is totally shocking, IMHO. |
You're right - it entirely depends upon where and from how many different news sources your information comes. I'm personally comfortable with mine - as I'm sure you are with yours.
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08/21/2005 02:08:11 AM · #29 |
Well, guys, let me tell you that reading a thread like this gives me HOPE!
I KNOW there are lots of smart people in the US, I know some of theM personally and they have become great friends, because they have an open mind.
I'm a Swiss native and live in Zurich. I grew up in Bern, went to school there, worked at the movies and saw an unbelievable number of films from every corner of the world. I exposed myself to ANYTHING I could lay my movie-freak eyes on. Still today, I pick the "special" film over the latest "Box Office hit" from the US. Why? Because those big budget films are all about the money, the FX. They have NO SOUL.
In April 2001, my girlfriend and I temporarily moved to NYC, I found work, government work (my Government, not yours, i.e. the Swiss representation/consulate in NYC). I started my new job on 08/20/2001. I went to Boston for the weekend of my birthday, flew back to the City on September 3.
The Tuesday of the week after KILLED MY INNOCENCE, it killed my joy, my happyness, my hopes - or so I thought.
But no, the fear that crept into my system thanks to the rhetoric of Bush, Giuliani and Pataki didn't stay. I threw it right back out the window. I saw how the City pulled itself together. I saw how suddenly even the most ruthless cabbie didn't cut you off on the crosswalk anymore, even though he could have done it just the same way he'd done it the week before.
The guys who preached fear, and still do, didn't reach those who experienced the attack on America first hand - I saw the towers burn and collapse from my office, with my very eyes. I walked miles to get home that day. I was in the subways the days after and saw blank faces, zombies, silence on the way to work, where just days before there had been conversations, giggles, smiles.
After two years in NYC, we traveled the American West for roughly 7 months - what a great time! We met a few people who were interesting to talk to. But guess what, none of them were from the heartland, none of them were republican and almost all of them were educated and most of them were Jewish. Mind you, we're not Jewish, but we're also not fundamental Christians. We are MODERATELY religious (we call it protestant over here) just like the friends we made are thinking, open minded Jews or Christians with decency, values and respect for their fellow human beings.
The rest of the population, the rednecks, heartlanders, were there too. They spent nights in the same RV parks we did. But while we drove a small, versatile, relatively economic 19 foot Dodge, a so-called van-conversion RV, without big a$$ AC, shower, TV, hot water, any of those American "bare necessities", the guys next to us, from Texas or Nebraska, ran a bath in the 35ft monster at night. They watched TV on their 50inch rear-projection TV. They didn't talk to us. We weren't interesting, I guess we were as much freaks to them as they were to us. And when we did try to strike up a conversation with them , what came back was Bush-infused bla bla, like, e.g.: we defend your freedom (YEAH, RIGHT!); our son fights for our country; my neighbors kid was killed by those fuçking Iraqis; we support our troops; Bush does things right; Bush has to pay for what he's already done wrong; we'll just have to wait for the next president to do things right again.
And while we took out our bikes, that we'd stuffed into our already confined space to have more FREEDOM on the road, the average American RVer took his Explorer or HumVee off the hook at the rear end of his MONSTROUS home on wheels and drove to the nearby beach in two minutes - the time he spent parking his impossible to navigate RV, get that accessory car ready to go and hook up the 5000 volt connection along with the fresh water and arm-thick sewer connection, we used to shower in the RV-park's perfectly nice showers, we grilled our dinner outside, sat outside in our down jackets and enjoyed the stars and the fresh air, the quiet, NATURE, while the dude next door was getting on our nerves with ESPN blasting out his RV's "Master Bedroom" window...
In me, it was screaming: NO, NO, NO, NO!
You people don't get it, was what I thought. You think the 9/11 "attacks" were attacks against your people - well, they weren't. They were just used to fuel the fear that now controls your country. The fear that allowed Bush to CHEAT himself into a second 4 year term. The lies that discredeted people like Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon, BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, for crying out loud. Republicans who had supported Bruce all through his career, who shared his view of the world and of politics, turned their backs on him because he wasn't American enough anymore. WHAT A HEAP OF CRAP!
Bush was able to pull off the ultimate stunt by discrediting Kerry, a proven "war hero" (what a fuçked up concept - what's heroic about anything in war? watch Oliver Stone's Platoon if you don't remember or have never seen it), by saying that he'd not really been near the action, that he'd come home because of a scratch or bruise, when to this day, Sen. John Kerry has shrapnel in his body while to this day, Mr. oh-so-healthy-sporty-dude-next-door GWB has a fuçked up brain from all the coke and alcohol he used when he was on the national guard - or, wait, was he???
What's my point?
Every country/population deserves the kind of culture and politicians it gets: as long as uneducated, closed minded, Bush supporting, right wing republican, fundamentally Christian Americans - and there are quite a few of those, too - keep flocking to well set-up (in terms of marketing) HOLLOW, SHALLOW and STUPID big budget films, "Hollywood" won't change. And BUSH WON'T CHANGE! Why do Christians run and see movies like Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ"? Because they think he's presenting them "the truth" - a movie like that is like a documentary to them. Exciting to watch. What Gibson doesn't get, in my opinion, is that all the violence he uses doesn't keep radical Christians away, as it should ("thou shalt not kill"), but provokes mass reactions to that kind of movie, provokes controversy and thus promotes and propells the movie to the top of the charts.
What people fail to see is that the story could be told with pictures of much less violence, harsh, gruesome, bloody "reality".
I think, and please tell me if you think I'm wrong, Gibson's intent, maybe even subconciously, was a cry for reason - he's fundamentally anti violence and thought his movie would convey that message. He saw and still sees that VIOLENCE CANNOT BE THE ANSWER. He just fails to put that message across to a brainwashed people, the American people, at least the "mass hysteria"-prone part of it.
This sums up the 2004 re-election of the Cowboy like nothing else ever did:
Succinct Summary of the 2004 Presidential Election
(From the psych-humor listserv; a Canadian's perspective):
The Democrats' mistake was in thinking that a disastrous war, national bankruptcy, erosion of liberties, corporate takeover of government, environmental destruction, squandering our economic and moral leadership in the world, and systematic Administration lying would be of concern to the electorate.
The Republicans correctly saw that the chief concern of the electorate was to keep gay couples from having an abortion.
PEACE, brothers and sisters. There's just this ONE human race, we share ONE planet, whether we want to or not.
NO NUKES!
STOP BUSH BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!
Start acting, start educating your fellow Americans, start spreading the word instead of venting, ranting and agreeing with the people who've already realized what you've realized.
IMPEACH BUSH, BECAUSE YOU CAN!!! Write to your senators and representatives, kick their a$$es all over the place until they start making sense, until they start controlling Bush lunacy with those checks and balances that HE CANNOT TAKE AWAY, because they are in the system.
NOT EVEN THE PATRIOT ACT WAS ABLE TO TAKE AWAY THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF CONGRESS AND SENATE - unfortunately, claiming the same for your people's fundamental, constitutional rights, would be way off. A government that allows torture and treatment of POW like they were DOGS - actually, if the WERE dogs, the "humane society" would protect them. But because Bush convinces you that they are "lower and lesser human beings", terrorists, "enemy combattants", he takes away their HUMAN RIGHTS.
And those HUMAN RIGHTS ARE UNIVERSAL! They may not apply to full blown idiots like the Bushs, in the minds of educated people, but they SHOULD apply to ANYONE, REGARDLESS OF ANYTHING, when it comes to people who are NOT raging lunatics.
And to even out my rant with other people's words, historic words of the pop culture of the 80s, here's something Springsteen said in 1985 (!):
"If you grew up in the 60s, you grew up with war on tv every night. A war that your friends were involved in...and I want to do this song tonight for all the young people, if you're in your teens... because I remember a lot of my friends when they we were 17 or 18, we didn't have much of a chance to think about how we felt about a lot of things. And the next time, they're gonna be looking at you, and you're gonna need a lot of information to know what you're gonna wanna do. Because in 1985, blind faith in your leaders, or in anything, will get you killed. Because what I'm talking about here is: War!
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing.... --Bruce Springsteen
And here are the lyrics of a song an Englishman named Sting wrote during the hot phase of the COLD WAR:
In Europe and America, there's a growing feeling of hysteria
Conditioned to respond to all the threats
In the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets
Mr. Krushchev said we will bury you
I don't subscribe to this point of view
It would be such an ignorant thing to do
If the Russians love their children too
How can I save my little boy from Oppenheimer's deadly toy
There is no monopoly in common sense
On either side of the political fence
We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the Russians love their children too
There is no historical precedent
To put the words in the mouth of the President
There's no such thing as a winnable war
It's a lie that we don't believe anymore
Mr. Reagan says we will protect you
I don't subscribe to this point of view
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the Russians love their children too
We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
WHAT MIGHT SAVE US, ME, AND YOU
IS THAT THE RUSSIANS (AND THE TALIBAN, AFGHANI, IRAQI, IRANI, ISRAELI, PALESTINIAN, INDIAN, CHINESE, ARAB, THE HUMAN RACE...)
LOVE THEIR CHILDREN TOO
What about the Americans though???
Why do you let those LUNATICS in Washington send your children away, to kill innocent people and BE KILLED themselves, in a WAR that makes NO SENSE AT ALL, except to Bush and his $$$$$$$$$$$$$$-allies.
WHY???
Read Springsteen's lyrics, for crying out loud, listen to those speeches he made when introducing his songs on the "Born in the USA" tour:
"I remember the drummer in my first band coming over to my house, with his marine uniform on, to say that he was going, and that he didn't know where it was. A lot of guys went, and a lot of guys didn't come back, and the lot that came back weren't the same anymore. I remember the day I got my draft notice, I hid it from my folks, and three days before my physical, me and my friends went out and we stayed up all night, and when we got on that bus to go that morning, man, we were all so scared.
And I went, and I failed. I came home (applause) It's nothing to applaud about.
But I remember coming home after I'd been gone for three days, and walking in the kitchen, and my mother and father were sitting there. My dad said 'Where you been?' I said 'I went to take my physical' he says 'what happened?' I said 'They didn't take me', and he said 'That's good'."
THERE'S HOPE - EDUCATED AMERICANS LOVE THEIR CHILDREN, TOO!
They love them enough to keep them away from the war, they may have the financial means to do it. However, what happened to affordable education for everyone? Why don't "poor" people go to State Colleges? Because the Military offers them a more expensive education IF they enrule (and potentially get shipped off to Iraq). They fail to mention to that kid at the mall in Boise, Idaho or somewhere in Montana or rural Texas, that there ARE alternatives to selling your soul to the DEVIL.
HELP POOR PEOPLE KEEP THEIR KIDS AWAY FROM THE WAR!
DON'T SUPPORT THE RE-INTRODUCTION OF THE DRAFT BECAUSE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WON'T BE ABLE TO DUCK IT WILL EITHER BE POOR, MINORITY, WITHOUT ALTERNATIVE PERSPECTIVES OR JUST PLAIN STUPID.
If Bush runs out of "material" (i.e. soldiers) who are willing to fight and die in his USELESS WAR, he'll have to change something and let's hope that won't be him turning to nukes. No, wait, he'd ruin the oil reserves with that...
FEAR can hold you PRISONER. HOPE can set you FREE!
WE'RE SAVE! ;-(
All the best to you all and please keep thinking straight and acting upon your instincts or good and true values, your integrity, your street smart, your democratic, humane notions and convictions.
STOP BUSH FROM BRAINWASHING YOUR PEOPLE.
THE PEOPLE, UNITED, CAN NEVER BE DEFEATED!
STOP VIOLENCE!
START THINKING!
ASK QUESTIONS!
INSIST ON GETTING SOUND ANSWERS!
USE YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!
PROVOKE ACTIONS FROM YOUR REPRESENTATIVES IN WASHINGTON, DC!
HELP MAKE AMERICA THE IDEALISTIC, ANYTHING GOES COUNTRY IT USED TO BE!
LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM INSTEAD OF MOURNING IT!
QUIT THAT JOB THAT DOES NOTHING BUT PAY YOUR BILLS!
GROW A CONSCIENCE AND ACT ACCORDINGLY!
STOP BLAMING OTHERS!
START WITH YOURSELF!
VOTE AGAINST BUSH AND DICK OR YOU GET FUC*ED!
GET RID OF BUSH! THE SOONER THE BETTER! AND DON'T REPLACE HIM WITH CONDY (JUST BECAUSE SHE'S BLACK AND A WOMAN DOESN'T MAKE HER PRESIDENT MATERIAL), DONALD, DICK, KARL...
SUPPORT GORE, HILLARY, ANYONE S M A R T WHO STANDS UP FOR HIS OR HER PEOPLE!
PLEASE, I BEG YOU!
Thank you, in the name of the REST OF THE WORLD.
Bruno
PS: Thanks for reading all of this, if you made it all the way... |
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08/21/2005 02:20:46 AM · #30 |
beegee, you need to choke on your spaghetti
how can you judge our country when youve only been here a little while?
and mel gibsons movie was almost 100% straight out of the Bible, he wasnt promting violence, he wasnt promoting hate, gosh how stupid do you have to be to see he was telling the story of Jesus's crucifixion?
and yes the 9/11 inncodent was intended to be on america, DUH!!!!@#!!@
who in thier own mind thinks this? "oh im gonna attack america to make everyone paranoid about terrorist so they cause thier own self destruction" nobody, nobody except you
i suggest you leave your wrong theories to yourself and quit fueling the fire
and stop posting music lyrics! no body wants to read them
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08/21/2005 02:28:14 AM · #31 |
oh and by the way
what the crap does holywood have to do with anything??????
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08/21/2005 02:39:13 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Fetor:
and stop posting music lyrics! no body wants to read them |
One type of song that has come into increasing prominence in recent months is the folk song of protest. You have to admire people who sing these songs. It takes a certain amount of courage to get up in a coffee house or a college auditorium and come out in favor of the things that everybody else in the audience is against, like peace and justice and brotherhood and so on.
--Tom Lehrer, from the introduction to The Folk Song Army, (1965) |
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08/21/2005 02:49:16 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by DanSig:
just like Iraq, they invaded Iraq to get Saddam Hussain, well they got him almost 1 year ago and they are still there.. even if nobody wants them there.. |
This is where the dilemna comes in...When is it best for the US to pull out? If they are to have a "democracy", then we can't be a part of their governing process. But if we leave too soon, a dictator/regime will most likely come into power again. So where does one draw the line? When is it best to call it quits and completely take the soliders out of Iraq?
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08/21/2005 02:49:26 AM · #34 |
Sorry, everyone, just edited for use of foul language. "stupid" and "damn" are ok, right?
Oh, and I don't mind being called a fool. At least Fetor tells me what he thinks, even though he did it in a private message, because he's soooo politically correct that he'd rather attack me personally, out of sight of the public, than publicly try to destroy my valid arguments with his...
I just got this PM from Fetor:
you are a fool you know that? you better stop where you are with your petty wrong opinions and made up facts before you get burned agian from me and other intelectual people on this site, even my democratic friends are saying your stuff is crap and you are full of twice digested pigs ovaries. and if you have any sense at all you would leave DPC all together, because sooner or later you will find you are not wanted.
- Kind reguards
A Bush Supporting American Citizen
WHAT THE F***??? Do you think you can scare me with those words??? Read the rest of this thread and you'll see that YOU got it all wrong, young man.
Fetor, how can you JUDGE THE REST OF THE WORLD WHEN YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THERE????? I lived in your great country for 31 months, you ignorant kid. When was the last time you left the State you grew up in, or even just the county? Have you ever even spent more than a few days away from home - and I'm not talking about summer camp with the boy scouts, HUH?
STOP leashing out! START THINKING, READING, UNDERSTANDING!
STAY THE HECK ALIVE YOU STUPID KID!!! DON'T LET YOURSELF BE KILLED FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS.
And read the damn lyrics, THEY SAY MORE AND ARE A THOUSAND TIMES MORE VALID THAN ANYTHING BUSH HAS TOLD YOU IN THE FIVE YEARS HE'S BEEN IN OFFICE.
DO WATCH "PLATOON" IF YOU THINK HOLLYWOOD IS OH SO RIGHT, AND CHECK OUT "BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY", TOO, WHILE YOU'RE AT IT. FOREST GUMP, THE DEER HUNTER, APOCALYPSE NOW, HEAT, THE GODFATHER, SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION.
NOT!: The rock, Gone in 60 seconds, Independence Day, Men in Black etc.
If they sell the movie because they call it a BLOCKBUSTER before it's even released, they are lying to you just like Bush is lying to you.
If a movie costs US$ 200 million to make and another US$ 100 to promote and then only makes US$ 120 at the box office, they HAVE to sell that DVD to you or they'll go BUST. That's why a DVD doesn't cost more than going to the movies with a buddy and having some popcorn. So a kid like you can afford to buy it and WILL buy it, even though it's going to be so shallow and hollow that you'll only want to watch it once and then just keep skipping to the hot chicks and the explosions if you ever pop the DVD in the player again...
Am I right or am I right???
Violence is NEVER the answer and that's why Gibson's movie is STUPID in the highest degree even IF it's straight out of the bible. And he didn't make it stupid but it was received in the wrong way. The movie was an ANTI-WAR statement, an ANTI-Violence statement, a call for TOLERANCE - did you get any of that???
No, then do yourself a favor and watch PLATOON, watch Michale Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 even if Bush and your pastor or priest or whoever told you these films and people were UNAMERICAN.
Michael Moore and Bruce Springsteen combined have more guts, integrity and true LOVE for your beautiful country than Bush and his crew ever had.
So read this and go to bed, you stupid, stay up late, write before you think, BRAT!
You weren't born stupid, you are obviously smart, but you've already heard way too much of the crap Bush and other idiots have been telling you and your future comrades in the military.
You're gonna need a lot of information, well here goes - and THIS IS NOT LEFTIST PROPAGANDA, but the truth. The timeline for Iraq starts before Communism was even invented!!!
Stop bitching around and start thinking, PLEASE!
Bruno
PS: Hollywood has everything to do with it! Did you read my whole post? Doesn't sound like it from your angry reply.
Comprehensive timelines
on 9/11: //www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline
on Iraq:
//www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq
on Bush's environmental record:
//www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=the_bush_administration_s_environmental_record
Message edited by author 2005-08-21 03:11:38. |
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08/21/2005 03:00:23 AM · #35 |
Please edit out the profanity and personal attacks (this means everyone) or your posts will be hidden, at the very least.
Please feel free to express your opinions within the constraints of the site TOS. |
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08/21/2005 03:04:51 AM · #36 |
its rather odd how i can make equally insulting post without using such naughty language. Where did i say i was judging the world eh? show me my own quote, please. its amusing that you base all your arguments on your belief that most americans are intolerent religious fanatics, and boy scouts.
And yes i get defensive about my flag, i get defensive when a prick such as yourself decides to flood forums with corrupted thoughts and insulting the most powerful man in the world. Sir you might have lived here for 31 months, but thats not near long enough to absorb the greatness of our country. try reading all the history books that are taught in our public schools. you have no idea what americans are/believe, and the only reason you can say crap about us is because your country isnt a terrorist target, people dont fly airplanes into your buildings. Watch you family burn alive in a sky scraper and then stand back and do nothing about it while other countries call you ignorent
your throwing rocks at a lion 15 feet away and stick your tounge out at it and calling it stupid, then act suprised when it eats your flesh and picks its teeth with one of your ribs
and by the way those movies "platoon" "apocalypse now" werent biographys, there fiction. also farenhieght 9/11 was a one sided documentary that was produced by sombody that isnt the voice of millions
do your homework
fool
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08/21/2005 03:06:37 AM · #37 |
It's never too early to pull out of Iraq!
You're obviously not making things better over there, so why stay and lose men and women of your armed forces, a quarter of whom get killed by either "friendly fire" or in real, "un-armed" accidents.
Why kill tens of thousands of civilians (even your government estimates that so far 25'000 people died) like you did in Vietnam?
Have you forgotten how many (actually, how few!) people died in the World Trade Center attacks? I haven't forgotten. I also haven't forgotten that right after the attacks Giuliani told the press and his fellow New Yorkers that authorities estimated that 20-30'000 people got killed at the WTC alone. And then they're telling you nobody knew about the attacks when whole firms had their offices closed for NO obvious reason that Tuesday morning, except to help spare some 10-25'000 people's lives???
Labor day was the weekend before, when I flew to Boston, the Jewish holiday Rosh HaShanah was the Monday after 9/11.
THINK ABOUT IT!
Had Giuliani known that just 3500 people were killed on 9/11, would he have scared HIS WHOLE city, the city he loves, shitless with the numbers he first put out there?
I don't think so either...
Back to pulling out of 'nam, errr, Iraq:
Do you think it helped that the US stayed in Vietnam for as long as they did?
Yeah, it helped. It helped the funeral homes back in America, it kept military hospitals afloat, it helped the paper industry (tissues for crying mothers and widows, letter paper for protesters who wrote to their political representatives), it helped Coors and Budweiser, it helped Philip Morris, it helped cocain and heroine dealers... |
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08/21/2005 03:18:18 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by Fetor:
its rather odd how i can make equally insulting post without using such naughty language. |
Not any more, apparently. Please see my earlier post -- people were having a civil discussion before you two started in on each other.
Stop now. No more warnings, from me anyway. |
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08/21/2005 03:20:20 AM · #39 |
are you forgetting the whole reason why america is in iraq?!?!?! we are there to get that country up on its feet, we are helping the citizens of that place, getting rid of the suicide bombers and terrorist that post a threat agianst american freedom. Fool it is never to early to defend freedom, sir you are seeing things all wrong. And most of the civilian casualties are caused by suicide bombers, im pretty sure youve heard at least one of the hundreds of news reports on this subject
Message edited by author 2005-08-21 03:21:20.
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08/21/2005 03:25:55 AM · #40 |
An American friend of mine just barely made it out of going to 'nam. He was in a rock band, he was about your age and he's alive to this day.
Here's how he told me his draft story:
When I was growin' up, me and my dad used to go at it all the time, over almost anything.
But uhh, I used to have really long hair, way down past my shoulders, and I was seventeen, or eighteen. Oh man, he used to hate it and we got to where we'd fight so much, that I'd spend a lot of time out of the house, and in the summertime it wasn't so bad, cause it was warm, and your friends were out.
But in the winter - I remember standing downtown, and it would get so cold, and when the wind would blow, I had this phone booth that I used to stand in, and I used to call my girl, like, for hours at a time, just talkin' to her, all night long. And finally, I'd get my nerve up to go home, and I'd stand there in the driveway, and he'd be waitin' for me in the kitchen, and I'd tuck my hair down in my collar, and I'd walk in, and he'd call me back to sit down with him. And the first thing he'd always ask me was 'What did I think I was doing with myself?' And the worst part about it was I could never explain it to him.
I remember I got in a motorcycle accident once, and I was laid up in bed, he had a barber come in, and cut my hair and man, I can remember telling him that I hated him, and that I would never ever forget it. And he used to tell me 'Man, I can't wait till the army gets you, when the army gets you, they're gonna make a man out of you, they're gonna cut all that hair off, and they'll make a man out of you' And this was in I guess, '68 when there was a lot of guys from the neighbourhood going to Vietnam.
I remember the drummer in my first band coming over to my house, with his marine uniform on, to say that he was going, and that he didn't know where it was. A lot of guys went, and a lot of guys didn't come back, and the lot that came back weren't the same anymore. I remember the day I got my draft notice, I hid it from my folks, and three days before my physical, me and my friends went out and we stayed up all night, and when we got on that bus to go that morning, man, we were all so scared.
And I went, and I failed. I came home.
I remember coming home after I'd been gone for three days, and walking in the kitchen, and my mother and father were sitting there. My dad said 'Where you been?' I said 'I went to take my physical' he says 'what happened?' I said 'They didn't take me', and he said 'That's good'.
That friend of mine, a friend of humanity, of all young people and a fighter for world peace, grew up in Freehold, New Jersey. He was born on September 23, 1949. His name is Bruce Springsteen.
Read his lyrics, save your own life and the lives of your friends.
Please. |
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08/21/2005 03:38:44 AM · #41 |
i am choosing to serve, this isnt a draft, im not being forced to do this. What you dont understand is that we native born americans take great pride in our country and i nearly break down in tears now when i see the flag, when i think of all who died for our freedom, someone had do to it, and it is my duty give back to america. You are underestimating the people in this country. Someone has to do it, why not me? and how dare you say you know how america works after spending a short window of time in it. Ive lived here for 18 years now and learn more and more every day.
My life is a life to be given not to be a consumer, i refuse to feed of the work of other americans and take for granted the hard working american soldiers defending the homeland of my future family. Sir I will die for my country if thats what is needed, and i will do it without hesitating
so dont throw anymore of your bruce springsteen lyrics at me, he doesnt rule my life and i will not base my decisions off of his testimony
Message edited by author 2005-08-21 03:38:56.
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08/21/2005 03:45:00 AM · #42 |
oh, as for the reason why the US is in Iraq:
The reason is BUSH.
The reason is OIL.
The reason is GREED.
The reason is lack of RESPECT.
The reason is INTOLLERANCE.
THOSE are the reasons why those suicide bombings are NEVER EVER GOING TO STOP IF YOU DON'T DO Y-O-U-R HOMEWORK.
Answer my questions: have you EVER been abroad? and I'm not talking about Mexico, Canada or the US-infested US Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico, I'm talking Europe, Asia, Russia, Africa?
Have you ever spent a considerable amount of time in an even slightly international, liberal place like SF, NYC, LA, Chicago, Boston, Washington D.C., Seattle, Portland (Oregon or Maine)?
If I showed you an un-labelled map of our planet, without lines that show borders, could you point out where exactly Iraq is or where Toronto or Mexico City are, for that matter?
No?
Well, that's because all those oh so great history books they use in your public schools don't ask questions. All they do is give answers, but not to the questions that should be asked. Those who give the answers take away YOUR fundamental right to develop and ask YOUR OWN questions.
What do you know about the original population of the American West? The SAVAGE, BRUTAL, RUTHLESS indians? That they killed the white man? That Buffalo Bill was a hero?
Well, let me tell you something: The white man is still there, the indians are gone. Does that make America a better place? Are the remaining indians anywhere near as happy and content as their ancestors used to be???
Let me provoke you a little more by adding this:
Indians = Iraqis
Bow & arrow = mortar granades and mines
scalping your dead enemy = suicide bombing = lack of basic human decency and respect
Bush = Buffalo Bill
That's why the rest of the world thinks, and is right about it, too, that your president is a Cowboy.
A very smart band from Belgium, yes, that's the other country in Europe that produces great chocolate that makes your hershey bars taste like crap put out these lyrics - another song, sorry and I added comments to explain what they might have meant with those words because they're rather subtle about their messages, you won't find "enemy combattants" or "Axis of Evil" or "wanted, dead or alive" in there. Smart people don't use catch phrases like that. They don't want to preach, they want to teach. They don't want to convince you, they want to get you, understand you. They don't push you, they pull you, they show you perspectives instead of not giving you any alternatives:
K'S CHOICE LYRICS
"Something's Wrong"
When your pubic hair's on fire (obvious), something's wrong
When you think you're the Messiah (BUSH???), something's wrong
When you mistake a plane for Venus (Ignorance?), something's wrong
When your girlfriend's got a penis (intolerance?)
Something's wrong...
When you like music more than life (or Photography...?), something's wrong
When you start sleeping as you drive (ignore your body's needs...), something's wrong
When you're favorite drink is thinner (alcohol can help you to relax, as long as you drink responsibly and at the age when it's legal in your state - do't get wasted though, that's not what it's meant for. And don't put too much water in your whiskey and thus dilute its taste, just drink water instead), something's wrong
When you're proud to be a sinner (you'd be proud if you killed some iraqi "dog" who was about to kill a friend, right? well what happened to all men are created equal and Thou shalt not kill???
Something's wrong...
When a canary drives a tractor (obvious), something's wrong
When your president's an actor (RIP, Ronald), something's wrong
When your jacket's plagued with dandruff (ugly), something's wrong
If you think that this song matters (or any Springsteen, Pearl Jam, REM, Sting, Aimee Mann, John Mayer, Pete Yorn song...?)
Something's wrong...
Something's wrong... ( OR NOT? ) |
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08/21/2005 03:56:31 AM · #43 |
Duh, those weren't lyrics, that was advice for young kids who don't have a clue but need to know more to keep themselves out of trouble.
I'm proud of my country, too! And I'm proud of America because I KNOW THERE ARE SMART PEOPLE OVER THERE WHO'LL RID THIS PLANET OF PRESIDENT BUSH, no later than when his 2nd term is over... Or do you think he's so good he'll convince the smart people in Senate and Congress to change the constitution to stay in office? No, my guess is, he'll try to help Condie Rice to become the first female president of the USA. And he'll be so proud because not only is she a woman, but she's also NOT white, which in Bush's simple mind is going to convince his own deceived people that she's NOT a "mini Bush" in a skirt...
Do you think an iraqi suicide bomber isn't proud of his country or his religion, his family? YES HE IS!
Does that keep him from blowing himself up and killing a few Americans while he's at it?
Does it keep you from going to Iraq that Bush is a proven idiot who's going to ruin your life if you let him??
If you're oh so free, why don't you accept the freedom that was granted to you by YOUR OWN, American constitution and SAY NO TO WAR?
SAY NO TO THROWING YOUR LIFE AWAY!
AMERICAN IDIOT - That's "Green Day", BTW
What music do you listen to, if any?
Angry music? Punk? Metal? Hip Hop? Gospel?
No matter what it is, stop, take a deep breath and start over, LISTENING TO THE LYRICS.
STUPID PEOPLE DON'T SING, DANCE, PARTY, WRITE OR TAKE PICTURES.
YOU DO, SO YOU'RE NOT AS STUPID AS THIS THREAD MAKES YOU LOOK TO YOUR FELLOW, EDUCATED AMERICANS.
Name ONE typo I've made in my posts and I'll tell you how many mistakes in grammar and spelling your first sentence of your last post contains.
I took the TOEFL and scored in the 99th percentile, I took the Cambridge Proficiency and got a straigt A.
Because I'm a native speaker? NO!
Because I have an open mind and love the English language.
Because I love talking to smart people.
Because I love to educate and communicate.
Because I'd LOVE TO HELP YOU SAVE YOUR LIFE. |
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08/21/2005 04:02:51 AM · #44 |
so whats your point Bruce? your not basing your arguments on the previous statements of my post, your method is irrelevant.
and no i havent been overseas, what point are you trying to make? are you trying to put me down because ive attended school all my life? or trying to point the fact out that im a homebody? what are you trying to accomplish? Your insults to our country are the very reason why forigners get the living snot beat out of them.
And this isnt a racial thing, im a former racist and now i see everyone is equal. What is the point of knowing the native american population? us humans are like rabbits, after a while you lose track. and what if i did? would that make me a better american? would it put me higher in rank in the "Ideal American Man"
of course not. now would you like for me to start pounding on the country of switzerland? because it seems only fair that i should, i mean look at you throwing punches at our great nation. i wont because im better than that, its much more fun to make personal attacks :P
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08/21/2005 04:08:48 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by BeeGee:
Name ONE typo I've made in my posts and I'll tell you how many mistakes in grammar and spelling your first sentence of your last post contains.
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maybe i dont like proof reading?
moron
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08/21/2005 04:13:03 AM · #46 |
Are you afraid to expose your emotions or why do you PM this stuff to
me?
Why do you cry when you see your flag???
Does pride make you cry???
You know what? If you'd like to talk to me instead of writing more, back and forth, without listening to me, PM me your phone number. It'll cost me a buck to talk with you for an hour. I'd gladly invest that buck in your mental health and in the effort to keep you from giving your live to Bush, to dying "for your country". What does it do for your country, if you die for it?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, SAY IT AGAIN:
WAR! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
This is Fetor's latest PM to me - you see, if you PM me and I think people could learn from our conversation, I'll post your stuff right here.
I am choosing to serve, this isnt a draft, im not being forced to do this. What you dont understand is that we native born americans take great pride in our country and i nearly break down in tears now when i see the flag, when i think of all who died for our freedom, someone had do to it, and it is my duty give back to america. You are underestimating the people in this country. Someone has to do it, why not me? and how dare you say you know how america works after spending a short window of time in it. Ive lived here for 18 years now and learn more and more every day.
My life is a life to be given not to be a consumer, i refuse to feed of the work of other americans and take for granted the hard working american soldiers defending the homeland of my future family. Sir I will die for my country if thats what is needed, and i will do it without hesitating
so dont throw anymore of your bruce springsteen lyrics at me, he doesnt rule my life and i will not base my decisions off of his testimony
HE DOESN'T WANT TO RULE YOUR LIFE AND NEITHER DO I.
BUT DON'T YOU SEE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT BUSH IS DOING, IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM, PATRIOTISM, PRIDE, THE FLAG, DEMOCRACY, PEACE AND LIBERATION...? HE LETS YOU STAY STUFF LIKE: I HAVE TO SERVE, I NEED TO PROTECT MY COUNTRY, I HAVE TO DIE IF THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES.
Go back to the beginning of this thread and read EVERYTHING! I only got in here when things were already pretty well laid out. And now that the two of us are fighting, mind you, nothing personal, I'm really making an effort to be nice, rational and objective, even if I come across as preachy.
You, however, come across as ignorant and stupid. The latter of which you aren't, obviously.
So, please, post publicly and give others a chance to help you, not just me. Because by now it's obvious that you just hate my un-American, fool's guts, even if I tell you a million more times that
I LOVE THE USA
I LOVE NYC
I WAS THERE ON 9/11
I SURVIVED
IT MADE ME A BETTER PERSON
IT TURNED ME INTO THIS IDEALIST WHO THINKS HE CAN SAVE A REDNECK KID'S LIFE ON A DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY FORUM
IT MAKES ME WANT TO AT LEAST TRY
AND YOU CAN CALL ME A FOOL AS OFTEN AS YOU WANT, YOU CAN DISS MY HERO, SPRINGSTEEN, AS OFTEN AS YOU LIKE, I COULDN'T CARE LESS.
Please answer all the questions I asked and think about why I may have asked them.
All those cities I've asked you about, I've been to, and many more. In Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the US - where have YOU been?
Where do you LEARN what you claim to LEARN every day? In your hometown, watching the local news and FOX? Or reading the Washington Post and watching CNN? Ranting on Forums or informing yourself from reliable sources like the world famous news service of the BBC, your ally Britain's official broadcasting company?
THINK!
How would your cat, kyebosh, feel, if you set it free in the middle of winter, somewhere in the forest, after having kept it well fed and under strict surveillance for the last 2 years?
Would it hate you? You bet it would. It wouldn't understand what's going on. If you then came back two days later, you'd get bitten and scratched, even though you were the one who set that cat free.
Fetor: this is called a metaphor. Again, something subtle that requires you to switch on your darn brain to make sense of it - just like Springsteen or any other sensitive artist's lyrics... |
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08/21/2005 04:15:49 AM · #47 |
what's with the "moron", imbecile?
When did I last go beyong calling you stupid and ignorant?
When did I EVER PISS on your country?
Check my posts
Just because I tell some sort of truth doesn't mean I hate your guts. |
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08/21/2005 04:20:05 AM · #48 |
your lack of travel experience has EVERYTHING to do with your limited horizon, your proneness to fall for Bush's simple rhetoric.
Check how often he repeats a message that he's trying to convey, in the ever same phrases.
I try to convey ONE message and I put it to you in a million different ways because I hope that one of them will sink in eventually.
If I didn't care about you, if I didn't believe in saving lost souls one redneck at a time, do you think I'd still be spending time in this thread?
Do you?
Really?
Well THEN you REALLY got me all WRONG.
THEN, I WILL give up
THEN, all HOPE for you is lost
SLEEP ON THIS
TURN OFF THAT PC, "homebody" |
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08/21/2005 04:36:02 AM · #49 |
Hello all,
Let me start off by saying im not here to pick a fight, but while everyone is voicing ther eopinions, i might as well right? :)
First off, Calling the general american public ignorant is basically pissing on america.
Aside from that, i think bush is a moron, i think the motives behind his movments into iraq arent justified, i honestly believe snack food will kill him some day.
However, there is one big thing that seems to be missconstrude here, and thats about the soldiers fighting in Iraq, I am a soldier, im not in a iraq, but will be shortly, if there are any questions about my motives for joining, or my reasons for going to Iraq, let me explain.
Soldiers are not politicians, we are not there to profit from confinscated oil, we are not there to murder civilians, shoot at insurgents, or to destroy human life, we are there to save life, while you may not agree, you are not seeing all sides of this, i go for the life of my friends, i go for the lifes of my brothers and sisters, i go to save life, if i dont go, sombody go's in my place, If they die, they die where i would have, i go to save that person, if i lose my lif ein the process so be it, they keep theres, that is a selfless act, and you should not slander it.
For us it isnt about Who did this, who started what, or who's preisdent/king/ruler/dictators toes were stepped on, its about each other, its about a family, a family every person in every country is a part of, your country, is your family.
would you send a friend off to war in your stead?
i wouldnt think so, i would think that if circumstance called for it, you would go in place of friend or family, or would you stay behind while they go of to die and protest it, protest doesnt save anyone from anything, all it does is cheapen and demean the lives given, the vietnam war wich you have mentioned a few times here is a good example. those soldiers didnt come home to warm greetings and joy, for the years of hell they just expierianced, they came home to ridicule and anger, from people that stayed back and watched it happen, doing nothing more then saying how wrong it is.
those people should have thanked those men, for going in there place, and saving them from the same fate.
Bush doesnt rule my life, the government doesnt rule my life, i do, it doesnt matter who is president, or why they are, there would have been war anyway, the assumption that the president runs this country is absurd, he is a mere puppet for the fat pockets of the world "yes dare i say it the world".
and yes, given the right circumstance pride can bring a man to tears, but this is not somthing a civilian, a normal, go to work be a jerk everyday person would understand, and i dont expect you to, i only ask that you dont presume to know the trivial matters of warfare in this country, when you are not a part of it, and you do not cheapen the sacrifices made by people, so that others dont have to.
You may argue this post all you want, it isnt going to change anyone's opinion, as im sure this post hasnt/wont change yours, but i felt the urge to say my piece, wish you all a good night and best of luck with the argument/debate or what have you. |
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08/21/2005 04:36:26 AM · #50 |
Are you calling me a redneck? far from it sir, and how would you know what a redneck is? i dont think you encountered any while spending time in New York. scroll up maggot, i posted it before you posted it agian in your post....
you know why i cry, and people who know what i mean can back me up on this, i cry because ive seen and met men who give everything so we can live here. My two best friends are in afganistan and iraq right now, thats why i cry bruce, thats why. Me like so many other americans know how hard it is to see your friend or family member go off to war, when theres a possibility where he/she may die doing what their country needed them to. i know you dont understand this feeling because switzerland is such a passive country.
and why is bush in the wrong? this is no different than when the japanese attacked us at pearl harbor during ww2. we got atacked and then defended our freedom, are you gonna say that Franklin D. Roosevelt was in the wrong? oh my how you are uninformed.
its a shame how you think the american school system is teaching nothing but rednecks, which is not the case, i frieking know what a metaphor is.
ooo sorry im not 30 years old and havent been to all 7 continents!!! i wish i would of spent less of my life on forums bickering with some fool who claimes to know american culture and pride and when hes proven wrong he has point out that all americans are rednecks.
well lucky you for getting to do that
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