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07/09/2005 03:44:09 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by hyperfocal:
Especially as photographers, we should respect intellectual property of others. We should not use any photographs without the written permission of the photographer, and I see no advantage for any known pro to participate.
That being said I seriously doubt that the "ringer" photograph would score well here. It is like Kubrick & movies. He was considered THE master of his craft and is idolized by filmmakers and those of us who have passionately studied film, but he received harsh critics from critics and a luck warm reception from the general public. |
Regarding the "usefulness" of such entries, that's of course open to debate. But "fair use" under the copyright laws allows educational display of images, especially for limited periods of time. This was already discussed by the higher-ups and determined to be so when we made the Ansel Challenge and stuck one of his in. So I don't think there's any disrespect there, rather it's an homage.
Robt.
Message edited by author 2005-07-09 16:38:58.
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07/09/2005 04:14:48 PM · #27 |
Sounds like a great twist to me! Very good idea.
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07/09/2005 04:44:37 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
Regarding the "usefulness" of such entries, that's of course open to debate. But "fair use" under the copyright laws allows educational display of images, especially for limited periods of time. This was already discussed by the higher-ups and determined to be so when we made the Ansel Challenge and stuck one of his in. So I don't think there's any disrespect there, rather it's an homage.
Robt. |
Wow--I totally missed that and any discussion of that; Like many recent challenges, I only rated part of the challenge--there were just too many. Is the image still there? I just looked at the end of the challenge, it's not there. I presume it's been removed. Which image was it?
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07/09/2005 04:48:55 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Originally posted by bear_music:
Regarding the "usefulness" of such entries, that's of course open to debate. But "fair use" under the copyright laws allows educational display of images, especially for limited periods of time. This was already discussed by the higher-ups and determined to be so when we made the Ansel Challenge and stuck one of his in. So I don't think there's any disrespect there, rather it's an homage.
Robt. |
Wow--I totally missed that and any discussion of that; Like many recent challenges, I only rated part of the challenge--there were just too many. Is the image still there? I just looked at the end of the challenge, it's not there. I presume it's been removed. Which image was it? |
One of his shots of the Adobe church in Santa Fe or thereabouts. Through the doorway into the courtyard. Google ansel in google images and it'll show up on first or second page. He made the top 10 btw. jejejeâ„¢
R.
Message edited by author 2005-07-09 16:49:18.
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07/09/2005 06:28:25 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
But "fair use" under the copyright laws allows educational display of images, especially for limited periods of time. This was already discussed by the higher-ups and determined to be so when we made the Ansel Challenge and stuck one of his in. So I don't think there's any disrespect there, rather it's an homage.
Robt. |
I don't understand, are you suggesting that the DPC is an educational site? I would totally disagree with that assessment. I think it would easily fall within the realm of entertainment. My wife is a former professional educator, and it reminds me of a time that a fellow teacher tried to show Harry Potter as an educational film.
And even if under the most generous interpretation of the copyright laws it would be considered “educational” photographers should err on the side of protecting imaging rights.
Intent is irrelevant, homage to the photographer or not, the DPC would be using a photographer’s intellectual property without the photographer’s permission (if we were to actually get a accomplished photographer to participate I would be for it).
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07/09/2005 06:52:32 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I think it would be fun to have the following hidden egg feature in the site--though there's probably no way to legally do it.
"Hidden Egg" Feature. In every challenge, a respected professional photograph that the SC (or person suggesting the challenge) thinks meets the challenge is inserted into the voting pool. At the end of the challenge, it appears in the results, so you can see how voters rated it and the comments for improvement it received. It is of course credited to the real photographer, but doesn't really count in the rankings (e.g., it can't win a ribbon).
I just think it would be interesting and entertaining to see, for a given challenge topic, how the community votes and comments on an image which is obviously "successful" and considered a good photograph by the photography or publishing community.
Brings a little extra fun to the challenge results. Extra fun results: some will post comments that they recognize the photo. It will be even more fun when they think your shot is the hidden egg and leave that as a coment! |
Yes, I remember the Ansel Adams challenge and I was one of those who commented on the 'entry' by Ansel Adams. To be blunt about it, when it was first revealed what had been done and I was identified in the follow-up thread as one of the commenters, my first reaction was to feel that, in some way, someone had set out to make people here feel small by fooling them (please note that, before the challenge, I was aware of Ansel Adams and that he worked mainly in black and white and knew nothing more about him. I did some brief research before shooting my entry). I understand that there really was no intention to catch anyone out, but can only recall my indignation at that time.
To sum up, I'm not sure about the real usefulness of this. I wonder whether it would just deteriorate into a contest whereby everyone is trying to spot the 'hidden egg' entry and being fearful of posting a potentially embarrassing critique in a comment, in case they are accused of not spotting it.
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07/09/2005 07:06:49 PM · #32 |
The Ansell Adams photograph produced one of the funniest comments I have read for a long time. It comes frome a little known rule. i think it's in the fine print.
"Dead people can't submit to challenges. Please review the challenge submission rules."
I hope this doesn't rule some of us out of future challenges :)
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07/09/2005 07:09:37 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by hyperfocal:
...I don't understand, are you suggesting that the DPC is an educational site? I would totally disagree with that assessment. I think it would easily fall within the realm of entertainment. ...
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Can something not be educational and entertaining at the same time? I seem to recall reading in another thread that DPC was created as a way for a group of photographers to learn from each other with the challenges serving as the vehicle of that learning. If learning is not education, what is?
I personally do not believe that "education" must be carried out through the 'one teacher-many students' idea that pervades the current educational system in the US. If education can be gained in an informal, friendly, and , yes, entertaining fashion, then so much the better, as it will appeal to more people and perhaps even be remembered better.
Whether or not this would pass muster when dealing with the copyright laws (and a simple letter to the copyright holder should answer those questions) is not for me to say. But I find it amazing that anyone would make such a sweeping statement as to imply that there is only entertainment value to this site.
Think what you will, but I do get an education here. Perhaps you have progressed to the point where you don't?
Sara
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07/09/2005 07:12:11 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by hyperfocal:
Originally posted by bear_music:
But "fair use" under the copyright laws allows educational display of images, especially for limited periods of time. This was already discussed by the higher-ups and determined to be so when we made the Ansel Challenge and stuck one of his in. So I don't think there's any disrespect there, rather it's an homage.
Robt. |
I don't understand, are you suggesting that the DPC is an educational site? I would totally disagree with that assessment. I think it would easily fall within the realm of entertainment. My wife is a former professional educator, and it reminds me of a time that a fellow teacher tried to show Harry Potter as an educational film.
And even if under the most generous interpretation of the copyright laws it would be considered “educational” photographers should err on the side of protecting imaging rights.
Intent is irrelevant, homage to the photographer or not, the DPC would be using a photographer’s intellectual property without the photographer’s permission (if we were to actually get a accomplished photographer to participate I would be for it). |
I'm not the attorney here, that's for sure. But as I understand it, it's permissible to reference copyrighted works under certain conditions, and "workshops" are one of those conditions. I know it's been exhaustively researched in the poetry site I frequent; we can post for discussion copyrighted poems in the workshop environment as long as we do not archive them. That's basically what we do here.
Robt.
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07/09/2005 07:42:59 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by 3DsArcher:
The Ansell Adams photograph produced one of the funniest comments I have read for a long time. It comes frome a little known rule. i think it's in the fine print.
"Dead people can't submit to challenges. Please review the challenge submission rules."
I hope this doesn't rule some of us out of future challenges :) |
Can you still see the comments for it? I'd love to see them! |
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07/09/2005 09:02:38 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Originally posted by 3DsArcher:
The Ansell Adams photograph produced one of the funniest comments I have read for a long time. It comes frome a little known rule. i think it's in the fine print.
"Dead people can't submit to challenges. Please review the challenge submission rules."
I hope this doesn't rule some of us out of future challenges :) |
Can you still see the comments for it? I'd love to see them! |
It's at the end of the challenge in the DQ section. The dead people quote is from the DQ reason.
Message edited by author 2005-07-09 21:03:08.
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07/09/2005 11:49:54 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Originally posted by 3DsArcher:
The Ansell Adams photograph produced one of the funniest comments I have read for a long time. It comes frome a little known rule. i think it's in the fine print.
"Dead people can't submit to challenges. Please review the challenge submission rules."
I hope this doesn't rule some of us out of future challenges :) |
Can you still see the comments for it? I'd love to see them! |
It's at the end of the challenge in the DQ section. The dead people quote is from the DQ reason. |
Thanks Colette! I had looked there but was looking at the names, and saw "Advertising" as the screen name, whereas I was expecting to see Ansel Adams or something like that. |
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