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07/19/2002 01:47:33 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]Originally posted by hokie:
[i]
And if that is the case, isn't comparing here just as valid ..in a way?
Not really... But then again, critiquing a photo *is*, as you say, comparing against your knowledge and experiences with photography for sure. I'm speaking more specifically about the photos within a specific challenge... not photos in general over my brief history with this hobby.[/i]
You see, I think this is where we differ.
You will agree that your opnion is biased by your past experiences. Which is logical because we all know that to be true..whether we can admit that is another thing entirely.
I say that if that is true, then a comparison here is just as valid. Maybe even fairer in a way because I am not holding the photos up to my ideal as much as I did when I first started voting 3 months ago.
My bottom line, I won't fool myself into thinking I am totally unbiased. I know this to be false. So I sorta limit my bias to what I see here..after all..this is a contest first and foremost and we are competing against what is here in the immediate challenge.
[/i]
What criteria do you use to compare photos in the current challenge? I think my own comparison would have to be subjectivity and image quality... |
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07/19/2002 02:13:46 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
What criteria do you use to compare photos in the current challenge? I think my own comparison would have to be subjectivity and image quality...
I think I may have mentioned this before in another thread ( we seem to talk a lot about voting methods here :-)
I don''t have a written way of doing things and the best way for me to describe how I compare is just tell you how I vote.
I go through all 175 photos (or whatever) in one sitting.
I don''t start voting unless I can do it in one shot. I have very fast cable and I can download faster than I can vote. No need to sit aside a 4 hour block of time:-)
I get my first "hit" of a photo this way. I have a 21" color calibrated Sony monitor that I sit about 2 feet from and the photos "jump" off at me. I vote from the hip...4 boom..6..boom..etc...
That is my first impression look. If a photo has immediate power it gets me right there.
Then I take a day or two off and come back to the group to look at stuff I thought was interesting. Most of the time that is when I will move photos up in the voting. I never give a photo a 10 first time around...NEVER. You earn a 10 from me after I take time to really look at it. I may give a 7 or 8 but hardly ever a 9 and NEVER a 10 first time out.
I always..ALWAYS look at the whole group again and again and again. I never ignore my low votes. I have moved 4''s up to as high as 8 or 9 later in the week.
My photo comparison usually happens later in the week when I am trying to see just how good something is. If I see a lot of 10''s I give a lot of 10''s. I have given as many as 8-10''s and as few as none.
My statement about comparing photos is an honest attempt to say that the photo''s I look at every week and their qualities affect me.
I know many folks will disagree with me till the end of time but I have been trained to know that association has a large effect on perception. I just try to go with the flow and don''t sweat it. :-)
I didn''t come up with this, this is a known psychological effect that if you really give a rats a$$ about knowing more about(which I doubt because it is boring shite!!) I might be able to dig up some of my university stuff I had to study..but however true it is it is boring stuff to say the least. :-)
But I do not give a 10 to who I think will win, a 9 to second, etc,,etc,,,but I do have suspicions of where photos will place..ala my vote.
PS..
Technical plays a large part on basic stuff like focus, contrast and compositional.
I will say this, if I voted on subject matter alone I probably would vote some photos a lot lower because I have stuff I prefer. I try to put that aside. for instance I don''t like bug photos....they bore me..BUT..I will vote bug photos high if they are well done.
Models bore me to a degree but for some reason Magnetic finds some interesting subjects that make me break with tradition :-)
So..yeah..subjectivity and technique do affect me.
* This message has been edited by the author on 7/19/2002 2:33:44 PM. |
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07/19/2002 03:05:48 PM · #53 |
| I'm new to this site, my first entry was the free study. I got a very wide range of comments, from constructive critisism to near adoration! The comments, good and bad, were of the same aspect of my picture. I really do need the constructive critisism, I'm new at the photography thing. I've taken a class on digital photography....but it was really more about the digital stuff than the actual art of photography. So I welcome all comments. Plus my camera is really basic (point & shoot)....so some of my pictures are total accidents, like the fuzziness of my free study picture, but the more I looked at it the more I liked it that way. I thought it added a mysteriousness to it. And some people thought the same way I did and some people said it was fuzzy... But I'm having a GREAT time! |
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07/19/2002 03:34:07 PM · #54 |
I *try* to vote each pic on its own merits. whether that's "right" or "wrong", I really don't care; it just seems fair to me : )
those 'merits' themselves are probably about 50% subjective - "do I like this? does this speak to me? does it give me a warm fuzzy feeling? does it make me say wow?"
maybe the other 50% are attempting to be objective: "is it in focus where it needs to be, is it lit where it needs to be, cropping, framing, etc."
I can appreciate a picture that has technical or artistic merit even if the subject isnt my cup of tea
and that's it |
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07/19/2002 03:39:43 PM · #55 |
hey thanks for the encouragement, hokie
getting those models to come down is often like pulling teeth. for every one that does show up, i've corresponded unsuccessfully with like 100.
in that regard it's alot like putting a band together: a lot of people are out there talking the talk, but when it comes down to brass tacks, it's often noncommittal at best : P
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07/19/2002 05:16:35 PM · #56 |
This may be a strange request/idea but I am going to shoot it out here anyway since it is connected to the way I vote.
Would it be possible (would people think it a good idea) to have two different voting ranks? Something purely voluntary mind you. That way for those people without as much technical knowledge about photographs could choose to have their votes be averaged in as counting as half as much as other votes? |
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07/19/2002 05:31:03 PM · #57 |
| I love abstract!!! That fact will inevitably show in most of my submissions.....The comments I've received also range from "Boring," "Why Bother," "Nice," "Great Job" and one comment I truly appreciate "I love the abstract of this picture!" Hooray, someone out there got it! To everyone: I greatly appreciate those technical comments and suggestions. Keep them coming. |
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07/19/2002 05:31:52 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
I *try* to vote each pic on its own merits. whether that's "right" or "wrong", I really don't care; it just seems fair to me : )
those 'merits' themselves are probably about 50% subjective - "do I like this? does this speak to me? does it give me a warm fuzzy feeling? does it make me say wow?"
maybe the other 50% are attempting to be objective: "is it in focus where it needs to be, is it lit where it needs to be, cropping, framing, etc."
I can appreciate a picture that has technical or artistic merit even if the subject isnt my cup of tea
and that's it
And its pretty much that simple for most folks and me too.
My long response above was more a trained reflex from my work..sorry to make something fun seem too tedious :-)
When I used to do more government spec advertising/marketing work about 10 years ago you would be frightened by the sociological/phsychological mumbo jumbo we would have to endure and submit people to. If you couldn't go toe to toe with those ghosts you didn't get the job.
I think that crap has hung with me too long >:-/
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07/20/2002 03:50:48 AM · #59 |
i can see the potential of an idea like this, depending on how it was set up.
but i have to wonder if anyone would voluntarily agree to have their opinion count *less*... ?
just thinking out loud ...
Originally posted by Agamemnon:
This may be a strange request/idea but I am going to shoot it out here anyway since it is connected to the way I vote.
Would it be possible (would people think it a good idea) to have two different voting ranks? Something purely voluntary mind you. That way for those people without as much technical knowledge about photographs could choose to have their votes be averaged in as counting as half as much as other votes?
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07/20/2002 04:57:30 AM · #60 |
Originally posted by Agamemnon:
This may be a strange request/idea but I am going to shoot it out here anyway since it is connected to the way I vote.
Would it be possible (would people think it a good idea) to have two different voting ranks? Something purely voluntary mind you. That way for those people without as much technical knowledge about photographs could choose to have their votes be averaged in as counting as half as much as other votes?
I've got 2 cents burning a hole in my pocket:
(1) As much technical knowledge as who?
(2) Personally, the only votes I think should be considered to 'count half as much' would be users without cameras (I like to see the way they vote, but perhaps their votes don't have to be mixed in with the others at the end of the challenge? - just a side thought)and 'hackers' that make it a point to drive the rest of us crazy with their methods of voting. ~:'O
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07/20/2002 08:53:32 AM · #61 |
| This is just a guess, but I would expect most users without digital cameras have SLRs and an interest in photography. If they are voting on people each week for an hour or so. |
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07/20/2002 10:52:06 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
[i]
My long response above was more a trained reflex from my work..sorry to make something fun seem too tedious :-)
not at all.. i think that you put a lot of good detail into your methodology, which really sounds pretty similar yo what I do :) |
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07/20/2002 11:29:53 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by Agamemnon:
This is just a guess, but I would expect most users without digital cameras have SLRs and an interest in photography. If they are voting on people each week for an hour or so.
This very well could be true, I have no reason to think other wise, I was leaning more towards the peoples votes that they have to throw out every week - who may have an interest in photography but just don't give a hoot, the ones that take minutes to vote on, not an hour or so. Which is probly why they do the votes the way they do ;) Let 'em all vote, then throw out the repetive garbage. Works for me ;) |
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07/20/2002 12:14:59 PM · #64 |
Also, you gotta remember, your vote will only be one out of 200 or 300 (or more). I''m no mathematician or statitician (sp?), but that tells me that though I may have a teeny, weeny, itsy-bitsy effect, it isn''t really that much. I think someone figured that if there were 200 voters, and you voted a 10, it might change the vote by 0.044 or something like that. Numbers confuse me. I like words. Actually, I like pictures.:-)
* This message has been edited by the author on 7/20/2002 12:15:16 PM. |
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