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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> To whoever is in charge of validating my Picture
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 156, (reverse)
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 05/13/2005 01:19:41 PM · #26
Originally posted by theSaj:
So do this. Take a screen shot of the challenge winners and your photo's scores (I did this for you in case they're gone). And realize that you did it!

If you know it's true, and most of us believe you. And it's a simple technicality. Don't forget that YOU got a WINNING photo!!!! Even if you don't get the ribbon. It was well ranked!

Just wanted to encourage you NOT to forget that...


I think that's perhaps the best approach one can take in this situation. I also shoot mostly in RAW (Nikon D70) but also, when shooting for a challenge, shoot at least a couple of shots as jpeg Fine just to be safe and will, if possible use one of THOSE files for my submission.

You can take away from this a deeper understanding of what could lead to a DQ and keep taking ribbon-worthy photos.

To members of the SC -- is there a list somewhere of which programs and editors it's reasonable to expect SC members to have access to so submitted files can be assured of viewability?
 05/13/2005 01:22:03 PM · #27
Well, I got like 10 untouched pictures of that tree with the same clouds...
 05/13/2005 01:23:20 PM · #28
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
I converted it back to it's original aspect


Therein lies the problem. Converting to the original specs is not the same as having never tampered with the file to begin with. Even if everything is exactly the same, the EXIF data will show that the file was modified. This is one of those welcome rules that isn't subject to SC opinion, and it doesn't mean that anyone thinks you cheated. The data either shows that the file is unmodified or it doesn't, and unmodified EXIF data is a requirement.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but... if the tool grandmarginal is using allows her to select from a drop down to switch between original settings and new settings the original settings are not being overwritten. Can the SC not find a tool that will allow them to access the original settings which are clearly still stored within the raw file?
 05/13/2005 01:25:53 PM · #29
That's what great about RAW files... Everytime you save it, you keep all the info (including the original). It can't be altered...
 05/13/2005 01:26:55 PM · #30
It's pretty reasonable to assume that whatever camera you are shooting with, at least some of us will be able to open the file. Where problems come in is when software like Picture Project is used to move files, and changes are made to the EXIF data on the way. In these cases, there is literally no way for us to validate that the file is an original.
As TheSaj posted, the best practice is to copy the originals to an archive directory using the operating system (in widnows, open both directories in separate windows, highlight the files, copy, paste). Then make "working copies" of the files you want to edit. Now only work on the "working copies" and you never have to worry about the validity of an original.
 05/13/2005 01:27:43 PM · #31
Not positive on how all the RAW editors record their info, but all the editors i have toyed with all do the same thing - as soon as youtry to aveit, even if you did no editing or changes of any kind, it cahnges teh EXIF to show it has been in/thru an editor.

I know in DPP I can adjust the RAW file settings (WB, exposure, etc) and my changes are 'saved' so the next time i open it the 'corrected' image is what is shown, and the 'as taken/shot/recorded' settings are there as well. BUT as soon as you save the file, the EXIF will be modified and NOT the original the SC is looking for.

The only safe way is probably to copy the RAW file before opening it and work on that copy. I shoot JPG 99% of the time and always do a Save As so the original file may have been opened, but not saved so the EXIF data is still virgin.
 05/13/2005 01:28:41 PM · #32
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
That's what great about RAW files... Everytime you save it, you keep all the info (including the original). It can't be altered...


You're confusing the image data with the EXIF data. The EXIF data is just additional information written within the file that tells about the image and the camera settings. It's the EXIF that is getting modified, not the photo.
 05/13/2005 01:31:01 PM · #33
Do you only shoot NEF or NEF + basic jpeg?
 05/13/2005 01:32:01 PM · #34
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
That's what great about RAW files... Everytime you save it, you keep all the info (including the original). It can't be altered...


You're confusing the image data with the EXIF data. The EXIF data is just additional information written within the file that tells about the image and the camera settings. It's the EXIF that is getting modified, not the photo.


But you have the date of shot in the EXIF and the possibility to see the original file... What more proof do you need? You have all the data, I just hope someone will actually make the effort to look into it.
 05/13/2005 01:32:36 PM · #35
I want to know if SC will be willing to revise their rules on this one. It does not seem unreasonable. When I was shooting jpegs for challenges (not that was I ever in danger of having to have them validated), I followed the suggestions of saving a copy off somewhere before ever touching it with PS. With RAW files (that I use these days), I open the raw file with PS, apply basic conversion (if needed, usually only adjust exposure & WB) and save the jpeg to disk. I'm not sure if anything gets written to the raw file, but something must be since PS remembers what the WB settings were when I open the file again in PS.

I want to point out that the settings in the RAW file may get altered, but the image data does not. Wouldn't this be enough for validation reasons?

Are we (DPC, SC, Admins) supposed to validate that illegal elements were not added to the image? Or are we only concerned with the 512 bytes or so of EXIF information being intact? I'd be concerned if the EXIF is the only thing you care about, because that is the easiest thing to edit in the file...
 05/13/2005 01:32:53 PM · #36
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Do you only shoot NEF or NEF + basic jpeg?


Only NEF
 05/13/2005 01:34:38 PM · #37
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
That's what great about RAW files... Everytime you save it, you keep all the info (including the original). It can't be altered...


You're confusing the image data with the EXIF data. The EXIF data is just additional information written within the file that tells about the image and the camera settings. It's the EXIF that is getting modified, not the photo.


But you have the date of shot in the EXIF (and that can't be changed) and the possibility to see the original file... What more proof do you need? You have all the data, I just hope someone will actually make the effort to look into it.
05/13/2005 01:35:15 PM · #38
if I can present a modified exif as proof of an original capture how can you, or anyone, know what modifications have taken place?

As of today, perhaps there is no way to add image data to a RAW file. that may change tomorrow.
 05/13/2005 01:35:41 PM · #39
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Do you only shoot NEF or NEF + basic jpeg?


Only NEF


Perhaps you can try to retrieve the original from the memorycard with some data recovery software. If it has not been fully overwritten since the day you loaded them to your HD there might be a small chance to find it back.
Sure someone over here can give a link to such a program (I have no experience with them)?
 05/13/2005 01:36:39 PM · #40
So far all the RAW editors I've used, Breezebrowser, Bibble, Adobe CS and RSE don't modify the RAW file at all, including EXIF, but keep separate settings files or a centralized database/file.

I'd still be curious to know which ones "DO" alter the EXIF so I can avoid them!
 05/13/2005 01:36:56 PM · #41
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
But you have the date of shot in the EXIF and the possibility to see the original file...


The EXIF data also shows the date modified. If the date modified is not the same as the date of shot, then it's not the original file. Even if the only thing modified was the EXIF data itself, the file has still been modified.

Message edited by author 2005-05-13 13:38:18.
 05/13/2005 01:36:56 PM · #42
Originally posted by grandmarginal:


But you have the date of shot in the EXIF (and that can't be changed) and the possibility to see the original file... What more proof do you need? You have all the data, I just hope someone will actually make the effort to look into it.
[/quote]

//www.robophoto.com/exif.html will change it.
 05/13/2005 01:37:48 PM · #43
Was recommended to me a couple of days ago... didn't get to use it yet.

go to //www.snapfiles.com

click freeware and look on the right for Data Recovery Tool. Find the one called "PC Inspector Smart Recovery" maybe you can get them back.

05/13/2005 01:38:05 PM · #44
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
What more proof do you need?


They need the same thing that they get from EVERY single other validated photo on this site ... the original photo with unaltered exif data.

Why should you get special consideration, the rules are very clear?
 05/13/2005 01:38:41 PM · #45
Originally posted by hopper:
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
What more proof do you need?


They need the same thing that they get from EVERY single other validated photo on this site ... the original photo with unaltered exif data.

Why should you get special consideration, the rules are very clear?


And they have it in the file!
 05/13/2005 01:38:53 PM · #46
Originally posted by grandmarginal:

But you have the date of shot in the EXIF (and that can't be changed) and the possibility to see the original file... What more proof do you need? You have all the data, I just hope someone will actually make the effort to look into it.


But your EXIF says "Modification Date", which is not the same as the date you took the photo, which means that it's NOT the original.
 05/13/2005 01:40:49 PM · #47
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
Originally posted by grandmarginal:

But you have the date of shot in the EXIF (and that can't be changed) and the possibility to see the original file... What more proof do you need? You have all the data, I just hope someone will actually make the effort to look into it.


But your EXIF says "Modification Date", which is not the same as the date you took the photo, which means that it's NOT the original.


The exif data has the date of shot... You can retrieve the original within the same file... It's all there.

Anyways... You guys do what you have to do but the proofs are there.
 05/13/2005 01:42:35 PM · #48
Originally posted by hopper:
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
What more proof do you need?


They need the same thing that they get from EVERY single other validated photo on this site ... the original photo with unaltered exif data.

Why should you get special consideration, the rules are very clear?


This is my thread buddy to solve my problem, if you ever have a problem with SC I'll let you deal with it how you want and I won't butt in...
 05/13/2005 01:45:24 PM · #49
you only want people who are going to back you up to butt in?

(it could have been very easy for you to contact the SC in private, you made this a public discussion, not me)

Originally posted by grandmarginal:
Originally posted by hopper:
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
What more proof do you need?


They need the same thing that they get from EVERY single other validated photo on this site ... the original photo with unaltered exif data.

Why should you get special consideration, the rules are very clear?


This is my thread buddy to solve my problem, if you ever have a problem with SC I'll let you deal with it how you want and I won't butt in...


Message edited by author 2005-05-13 13:46:21.
 05/13/2005 01:45:34 PM · #50
The rules clearly state that, "This original photograph must contain valid, unaltered EXIF data."

The EXIF data in your submitted file is altered. Whether or not it shows the date of shot or you have outtakes from the same day is irrelevant. The EXIF data must be unaltered, and everyone is held to the same requirement.
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