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04/06/2005 03:07:45 PM · #1 |
Still trying to get the balance right with the sharpening. Normally when I sharpen my images I use a very low setting in order to try to avoid artifacts (generally I am sharpening so they don̢۪t look sharpened in prints).
My current procedure is to sharpen the full sized image after all other post processing is done. Once the image has been sharpened I scale it down to web size and save it. I have a photo in one of the current challenges and the score isn̢۪t so hot and the only comment I have gotten is, "needs more focus."
The commenter could have meant that the composition doesn̢۪t have a strong subject (could possibly be the case) but I think what he meant was that the picture looked soft. This brings me to my dilemma. If I sharpen and scale down the pictures don̢۪t look super sharp and if I scale down then sharpen they seem too sharpened to me by the time I can actually see benefits from the sharpening.
How do you folks go about sharpening your images when you are getting an image ready for a challenge?
Thanks,
Tom
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04/06/2005 03:10:56 PM · #2 |
| I don't apply any sharpening until I am at the final image size. I generally use lower settings on entry-sized images than print images. |
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04/06/2005 03:16:01 PM · #3 |
For this image:
I tried using the history brush in Photoshop for the first time. I sharpened to the point where the internals all looked nice and crisp, but there was severe haloing everywhere the subject met the sky. I simply used the history brush and "painted out" the worst of the halos.
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04/06/2005 03:18:02 PM · #4 |
For challenge shots, I do all my adjustments on the full-size image, then after resizing, convert to Lab Color, slect the lightness channel, apply Unsharp masking at 50, 0.3, 0 once, sometimes a second pass is needed, then convert back to RGB, Save for Web to largest file size under the 150K limit.
Applying USM in light passes seems to be a bit friendlier and won't generate as much of the ghosting so often associated with over-sharpening.
Message edited by author 2005-10-18 15:41:40. |
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04/06/2005 03:18:37 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by ovenbird:
How do you folks go about sharpening your images when you are getting an image ready for a challenge? |
sharepening is the last step when you prepare your photos for a challenge. size them to web viewable size and then apply USM
try this tutorial |
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04/06/2005 03:37:19 PM · #6 |
This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.
Thanks very much, that works MUCH better.
Tom
Originally posted by BradP:
For challenge shots, I do all my adjustments on the full-size image, then after resizing, convert to Lab Color, slect the lightness channel, apply Unsharp masking at 50, 0.3, 0 once, sometimes a second pass is needed, then convert back to RGB, Save for Web to largest file size under the 150K limit.
Applying USM in light passes seems to be a bit friendlier and won't generate as much of the ghosting so often associated with over-sharpening. |
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04/06/2005 03:42:11 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by BradP:
For challenge shots, I do all my adjustments on the full-size image, then after resizing, convert to Lab Color, slect the lightness channel, apply Unsharp masking at 50, 0.3, 0 once, sometimes a second pass is needed, then convert back to RGB, Save for Web to largest file size under the 150K limit.
Applying USM in light passes seems to be a bit friendlier and won't generate as much of the ghosting so often associated with over-sharpening. |
This is what I do as well, although I usually just do it in one pass.
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04/06/2005 03:48:26 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by BikeRacer:
For this image:
I tried using the history brush in Photoshop for the first time. I sharpened to the point where the internals all looked nice and crisp, but there was severe haloing everywhere the subject met the sky. I simply used the history brush and "painted out" the worst of the halos. |
wouldn't the sharpen brush do the same for u in this case? Instead of "undoing" USM on the rest of the image.? |
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04/06/2005 05:13:13 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by scuds:
Originally posted by BikeRacer:
For this image:
I tried using the history brush in Photoshop for the first time. I sharpened to the point where the internals all looked nice and crisp, but there was severe haloing everywhere the subject met the sky. I simply used the history brush and "painted out" the worst of the halos. |
wouldn't the sharpen brush do the same for u in this case? Instead of "undoing" USM on the rest of the image.? |
I've tried the sharpen brush, and I found I couldn't get the results I wanted. It got too sharp and grainy too quickly, and I couldn't find any way to adjust the radius or threshold settings.
I'm playing with BradP's method right now, and it seems to work very nicely.
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04/06/2005 05:21:26 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by BikeRacer:
I'm playing with BradP's method right now, and it seems to work very nicely. |
Just so long as it's only my method you play with...
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04/06/2005 06:00:55 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by BradP:
For challenge shots, I do all my adjustments on the full-size image, then after resizing, convert to Lab Color, slect the lightness channel, apply Unsharp masking at 50, 0.3, 0 once, sometimes a second pass is needed, then convert back to RGB, Save for Web to largest file size under the 150K limit.
Applying USM in light passes seems to be a bit friendlier and won't generate as much of the ghosting so often associated with over-sharpening. |
Dear BradP,
This piece of advice will be your ultimiate undoing! I used your method just now on my submission for Abandonned Buildings and it looks 100% better. Now I will get the Blue Ribbon for sure! Hoist by your own pitar, as it were, Mr. P! Don't worry, I won't forget what it was like to be a member of the newbie dregs, I will toss out some crumbs every now and then. |
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04/06/2005 06:07:05 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Dear BradP,
This piece of advice will be your ultimiate undoing! I used your method just now on my submission for Abandonned Buildings and it looks 100% better. Now I will get the Blue Ribbon for sure! Hoist by your own pitar, as it were, Mr. P! Don't worry, I won't forget what it was like to be a member of the newbie dregs, I will toss out some crumbs every now and then. |
LOL
Actually it is from this site I learned this method.
Returning back to the network in exchange for lessons learned really is what this place is all about.
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04/06/2005 06:11:09 PM · #13 |
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04/06/2005 06:16:37 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by BradP:
LOL
Actually it is from this site I learned this method.
Returning back to the network in exchange for lessons learned really is what this place is all about. |
You're right -- thanks! Additionally, most of the How-To articles and Tutorials (under the Learn menu) have been written by site members.
Maybe you could write something on (or link to one of the threads on) contrast-enhancing USM. |
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04/06/2005 06:22:36 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by BradP:
LOL
Actually it is from this site I learned this method.
Returning back to the network in exchange for lessons learned really is what this place is all about. |
You're right -- thanks! Additionally, most of the How-To articles and Tutorials (under the Learn menu) have been written by site members.
Maybe you could write something on (or link to one of the threads on) contrast-enhancing USM. |
Good idea, this is a handy thing to know and helped me a lot. Maybe it isn't verbose enough to require a tutorial, but certainly worth having on a "Tips" page, which would fit nicely under the Learn link... |
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04/06/2005 06:29:50 PM · #16 |
For those of you using Photoshop and USM, bear in mind that immediately after you apply an effect you can go to the edit menu and "fade" that effect. When I do my dinal sharpening work at the 640 size, I always overdo it slightly, then magnify the image in a contrasty area and apply the fade function until it looks smooth. This works with all effects, incidentally; oversaturate and face, go for too much contrast and fade, whatever.
I sometimes resort to the history brush in extreme situations, but most of the time if you set yourself up properly it's not an issue.
Robt.
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04/06/2005 06:42:52 PM · #17 |
There is also another method:
(Not sure what it could be/should be called)
-USM: effect 18, radius 40, threshold 0
-USM: effect 150, radius 0.3, threshold 0
-go to edit, then fade USM: opacity 100%, mode darken
-USM: effect 150, radius 0.3, threshold 0
-go to edit, then fade USM: opacity 50%, mode lighten
This can also be saved it as an Action, so that photoshop will automatically do all the steps for you.
If you are not sure how to make it an action, here it is too!:
-have your photo open
-go to window, action.
-on the side is a circle with a little arrow in it. Click in that.
-select New Action
-call it (whatever) Sharpening, and click record
-follow the steps above correctly, and the computer will record everything you are doing
-when you are done the 5 steps, click on the little circle with the arrow, and select Stop Recording
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04/06/2005 08:56:15 PM · #18 |
| I'm going to have to try that out! Thanks! |
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04/06/2005 09:00:36 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Maybe you could write something on (or link to one of the threads on) contrast-enhancing USM. |
I sincerely hope you weren't suggesting I do. I haven't clue what I'm doing. I just click the hell out of things in PS until I get a ribbon.
:)
I'm still trying to figure out what layers are all about... |
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04/06/2005 09:03:47 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Maybe you could write something on (or link to one of the threads on) contrast-enhancing USM. |
I sincerely hope you weren't suggesting I do. I haven't clue what I'm doing. I just click the hell out of things in PS until I get a ribbon.
:)
I'm still trying to figure out what layers are all about... |
I meant posting a suggestion like you did : )
Layers are about "non-destructive editing" where you can save components separately and re-edit individually as needed. |
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04/06/2005 09:23:31 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by BradP:
For challenge shots, I do all my adjustments on the full-size image, then after resizing, convert to Lab Color, slect the lightness channel, apply Unsharp masking at 50, 0.3, 0 once, sometimes a second pass is needed, then convert back to RGB, Save for Web to largest file size under the 150K limit.
Applying USM in light passes seems to be a bit friendlier and won't generate as much of the ghosting so often associated with over-sharpening. |
Thanks for the sharpening tips...
Sharpening is a big issue with digital images.
Getting it right can be tough to do. It is something I struggle with all the time with landscape photography.
There are a lot of different ways to sharpen images, some pretty complex. Sharpening tutorials abound on the Net and the serious photographer needs to spend a lot of time trying out and learning different techniques to determine which works best for their images.
Personally, when voting I give far greater weight to technical merit in a photograph than I ever do to "meet the challenge". Meeting the challenge is far too subjective for me to evaluate properly but I can easily tell if the image is properly focused. :)
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04/06/2005 09:50:07 PM · #22 |
| Thanks....this has all been very helpful. |
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04/06/2005 10:40:00 PM · #23 |
I used a modified version of the fade technique that BradP posted with this shot:
But then there was still a dark line against the nose, so I used the history brush to kill it.
Does it look over-sharpened?
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04/06/2005 10:53:12 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by BradP:
For challenge shots, I do all my adjustments on the full-size image, then after resizing, convert to Lab Color, slect the lightness channel, apply Unsharp masking at 50, 0.3, 0 once, sometimes a second pass is needed, then convert back to RGB, Save for Web to largest file size under the 150K limit.
Applying USM in light passes seems to be a bit friendlier and won't generate as much of the ghosting so often associated with over-sharpening. |
Brad, I'm curious as to why you convert to LAB color. I assume it is to avoid artifacts, but could someone please clarify the benefits of first converting to LAB color, and then sharpening?
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04/06/2005 10:58:43 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by justin_hewlett:
Originally posted by BradP:
For challenge shots, I do all my adjustments on the full-size image, then after resizing, convert to Lab Color, slect the lightness channel, apply Unsharp masking at 50, 0.3, 0 once, sometimes a second pass is needed, then convert back to RGB, Save for Web to largest file size under the 150K limit.
Applying USM in light passes seems to be a bit friendlier and won't generate as much of the ghosting so often associated with over-sharpening. |
Brad, I'm curious as to why you convert to LAB color. I assume it is to avoid artifacts, but could someone please clarify the benefits of first converting to LAB color, and then sharpening? |
The benefit of converting to LAB color is that you can run the sharpening on the luminosity channel only. There is a dwonside, however, because the conversion to LAB and backto RGB has a slight negative impact on color rendition. The gamuts of the two color spaces are not the same.
The same effect can be achieved without a conversion to LAB. Simply run the USM, then Edit>Fade USM and set blend mode to "luminosity."
I also regularly see folks recommend sharpenign with a threshold setting of zero. Be advised that any noise present will be sharpened along with the image detail when the threshold is set this low. For many images, a threshold value of 2 or 3 eliminates most of that, while still sharpening the desired high-contrast edges.
Message edited by author 2005-04-06 23:00:36.
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