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03/16/2005 07:24:49 AM · #26 |
[quote=nsbca7Are you going to tell me it is as sharp as a Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L? If not then I wouldn't want to. Don't tell me "for the money" because she has the money. Two good EF or EF L zooms are well within her budget. If she is spending $1400 on a body why would she want to cut corners on the lens. That was my point. I would much rather have a couple of great lenses then a whole box of second or third rate plastic and glass. [/quote]
No, it's not, but it's a darn good starter lens... and at $180 she's not going to take much of a hit when and if she upgrades later.
While it is possible to assemble a package with 2 high-end zooms or 3 high-end primes in this price range, I consciously chose not to do so. Those reasons all tie in to my initial questions in this thread.
Janice stated that she likes to do macro and portrait photography. A fast prime like the 50mm f/1.8 is an excellent lens to have for portraiture, and macro photography requires a proper macro lens like the 100mm f/2.8. Ignoring those requirements means that she won't be able to do the types of photography she wants to do -- and in the end it doesn't matter how good her glass is, if she can't use it to do what she wants to do.
I recommended the 70-200L based on her intended use for candids, jousting and the like. This lens could come in very handy at the Renn Faire as it has a nice reach and produces superior image quality. It's a great lens not only for the jousting and other action that happens at the Faire, but also for candids.
These I feel are the "must-have" lenses in the above package. With those requirements met, I then went with the 28-105 lens for a couple reasons. First of all, the 17-40 at this point would not only have put Janice far over her budget, it would have left a hole in the 40-70mm range; one that would not, in my opinion, be adequately covered by the 50mm prime. The 28-105 is a good walkaround lens that will provide Janice with a lot of capability and flexibility while filling an important hole. I expect she will be very happy with the images she produces from this lens.
Looking at Janice's requirements, I did not see a pressing need for a wide-angle at all -- I don't see her using it all that often. Given this, I could not in good conscience recommend spending $650+ on a lens that would see occasional use, especially if that recommendation would mean sacrificing other more pressing needs. Fortunately, I do happen to know that the Vivitar 19-35 is a good lens (certainly not L-glass but a good lens nonetheless), so I offered it as an afterthought, as a way to add good wide-angle capability while staying close to her budget.
-Terry
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03/16/2005 07:30:33 AM · #27 |
One glaring omission from my recommended list:
Lexar 1GB 40x memory card - $79.88.
-Terry
Message edited by author 2005-03-16 07:31:02.
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03/16/2005 08:27:40 AM · #28 |
My lens choices were based on getting a good overall range, good quality, and staying on the lower side of prices. My choices were:
Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM //www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=29&sort=7&cat=2&page=1
Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM //www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=14
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM //www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=47&sort=7&cat=2&page=3
Sigma 20mm f/1.8 EX DG Aspherical RF //www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=125&sort=7&cat=38&page=1
The links will take you to reviews of those lenses. I have been extremely happy with the quality, sharpness, contrast, and color of these lenses.
Sams Club has the 1GB Lexar card for $70
Good luck!
JD
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03/16/2005 08:44:59 AM · #29 |
I agree with Club Juggle's list, the only change I would make would be to swap the 28-105 with the Tamron 28-75 XRdi 2.8. Good fast lens and sharp, highly rated on this site.
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03/16/2005 08:54:55 AM · #30 |
I'd suggest not buying everything at once.
Get the camera, get a reasonable mid-range zoom and start taking some pictures. When you start finding limitations, because you are too far from subjects, maybe get a longer telephoto. If you can't get close enough, get a macro lens. If the world can't fit in to the frame, buy a wide angle lens. If all your shots are soft and blurry, get a tripod.
If you go out and spend $1500 on lenses all in one go as people are suggesting, you'll end up with one or two you'll probably never use.
Let your frustrations drive your purchases, not a semi-random shopping list that suits someone elses particular needs. |
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03/16/2005 09:03:26 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I'd suggest not buying everything at once.
Get the camera, get a reasonable mid-range zoom and start taking some pictures. When you start finding limitations, because you are too far from subjects, maybe get a longer telephoto. If you can't get close enough, get a macro lens. If the world can't fit in to the frame, buy a wide angle lens. If all your shots are soft and blurry, get a tripod.
If you go out and spend $1500 on lenses all in one go as people are suggesting, you'll end up with one or two you'll probably never use.
Let your frustrations drive your purchases, not a semi-random shopping list that suits someone elses particular needs. |
I'd very much agree with this, the lenses that are now on my wish list are very different to what they were when I first got the camera.
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03/16/2005 09:32:41 AM · #32 |
I'm getting the 20D and 3 lens total.
70-200mm f/2.8 USM L IS
24-70mm f/2.8 USM L
50mm f/1.8
After shopping for lenses for a good while, this is what i recommend.
Cheers, |
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03/16/2005 09:45:37 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by RedOak:
I'm getting the 20D and 3 lens total.
70-200mm f/2.8 USM L IS
24-70mm f/2.8 USM L
50mm f/1.8
After shopping for lenses for a good while, this is what i recommend.
Cheers, |
This would take her about $1500 over budget. I wholeheartedly agree with Gordon's approach. Get a good mid-range zoom like the Canon 28-135 or the Tamron 28-75, a 1 GB compact flash, and the 20D. Then take it from there.
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03/16/2005 05:26:40 PM · #34 |
Terry - I noticed there are faster cards available. What is your opinion of the 80x vs 40x cards? I am contemplating a larger card - and fast. Will I notice a difference between those with the 20D or is it one of those cases where the camera limits the speed of the card after a certain point?
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03/16/2005 05:33:44 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by autumncat:
Terry - I noticed there are faster cards available. What is your opinion of the 80x vs 40x cards? I am contemplating a larger card - and fast. Will I notice a difference between those with the 20D or is it one of those cases where the camera limits the speed of the card after a certain point? |
You will definitely notice a difference in speed on the faster cards. It's $99.95, which is a bit less than I had thought originally. I'd go for the faster card.
-Terry
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03/16/2005 05:34:10 PM · #36 |
Again, thanks to everyone for their suggestions. It really does give me a lot to research.
I see this spawned some debates, as well.
A few comments. The budget of $3K was a guestimate and a high one at that. I'd rather not spend that much righ off the bat - and would be ok in adding a few of the non-essential items later. Honestly, right now I don't have the cash so the lower the price the better - however, I would rather limit the items I get initially rather than buy low quality.
To get by and get started with a new system I was thinking of getting the camera, two basic lenses (like an everyday and macro), a few accessories - such as the remote trigger, memory card, batteries, lens hood, flash and maybe filters.
I am thinking it might be ok to get a used flash - which hopefully shouldn't be as potentially delicate as used glass.
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03/16/2005 05:46:19 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by autumncat:
Again, thanks to everyone for their suggestions. It really does give me a lot to research.
I see this spawned some debates, as well.
A few comments. The budget of $3K was a guestimate and a high one at that. I'd rather not spend that much righ off the bat - and would be ok in adding a few of the non-essential items later. Honestly, right now I don't have the cash so the lower the price the better - however, I would rather limit the items I get initially rather than buy low quality.
To get by and get started with a new system I was thinking of getting the camera, two basic lenses (like an everyday and macro), a few accessories - such as the remote trigger, memory card, batteries, lens hood, flash and maybe filters.
I am thinking it might be ok to get a used flash - which hopefully shouldn't be as potentially delicate as used glass. |
Janice,
In that case, if you go with my list, hold off on the macro lens, the wide-angle and maybe the 50mm lens to start. You won't miss those as much as the others.
That should bring your initial outlay down by about $730.
Regards,
Terry
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03/16/2005 06:09:50 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by autumncat:
To get by and get started with a new system I was thinking of getting the camera, two basic lenses (like an everyday and macro), a few accessories - such as the remote trigger, memory card, batteries, lens hood, flash and maybe filters. |
If you don't mind not getting the top of the line glass, there are some Zoom telephoto lenses that double as excellent macro lenses.
edit: bad grammer
Message edited by author 2005-03-16 18:11:22.
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03/16/2005 06:16:20 PM · #39 |
Get the best EF glass you can afford and get an EF 25II Extention Tube for the macro. Look at my profile for a list of lenses that I have and the one lens I use more then any other is a simple EF 85mm. That makes that lens for me the most versatile lens made.
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03/16/2005 06:31:20 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I'd suggest not buying everything at once.
Get the camera, get a reasonable mid-range zoom and start taking some pictures. When you start finding limitations, because you are too far from subjects, maybe get a longer telephoto. If you can't get close enough, get a macro lens. If the world can't fit in to the frame, buy a wide angle lens. If all your shots are soft and blurry, get a tripod.
If you go out and spend $1500 on lenses all in one go as people are suggesting, you'll end up with one or two you'll probably never use.
Let your frustrations drive your purchases, not a semi-random shopping list that suits someone elses particular needs. |
Gordon, thanks for responding. I tend to agree with your outlook on this. I feel like I don't HAVE to get the entire collection all at once and should work up to some of the more specialized glass.
So, out of all the suggestions or options - what is a good mid-range zoom (I assume this is used for an everyday kind of lens)? I think investing in two decent (not something that costs thousands) lenses would be a good start.
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03/16/2005 08:06:14 PM · #41 |
if you don´t feel like spending too much then the 28-135 is a great lens and quite cheap compared to the L . then the 24-70L is superb.. but expencive.
I´d go for the 28-135 IS and the 100mm MACRO for starters, and really learn to take as good pictures with these lenses as they are capable of taking.. then I´d consider getting a L lens :)
the MUST HAVE for the 20D is the vertical grip with extra batteries, BIG CF card 1-2GB, the remote switch, a good EX flash with Stofen omnibounce, A HEAVY tripod like Manfrotto 055, and a good bag for all the toys.
and this you can get for :
Canon USA
Zoom Wide Angle-Telephoto EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS $409.95
CanonÂ
EOS 20D, 8.2 Megapixel, SLR, Digital Camera (Camera Body) $1,369.95
Canon USA
550EX Speedlite TTL Shoe Mount Flash $319.95
Sto-fenÂ
#OM-EZ Omni-Bounce for Canon 540EZ/550EX $16.95
Canon USA
Telephoto EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro Autofocus Lens $469.95
Bogen / ManfrottoÂ
3021BPRO Tripod Legs (Black) with 486RC2 Compact Ballhead $205.90
CanonÂ
BG-E2 Vertical Grip/Battery Holder for EOS 20D $169.95
Power-2000Â
ACD-674 Lithium-Ion Battery (7.4v 1500mAh) $34.95
Total: $ 2,997.55
and ofcource you can just get the camera with one lens like the 50mm f1.8 and a CFard and that´s all you really need to start taking pictures :) the rest of the stuff just lies around and waits it´s turn to be used ;) |
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03/16/2005 08:34:27 PM · #42 |
More questions (and I hope you all know how much I appreciate your knowledge, input and suggestions - hubby and I are starting to hash it all out now).
Can someone explain how a macro lens works? Basically, what is the difference between a macro lens and a zoom lens when the mm# is the same (ie a 105mm or a 105mm macro).
What mm would be the best for a macro?
What does the EX stand for in reference to the 550EX Speedlite TTL flash.
What do I look for in a tripod? I didn't realize that one was all that better than another or that different. I think I might hold off on a tripod to start with - as most of what I do is on the go at Ren Faires and carting a tripod around for 9 hours is not an everyday occurrence. But I know I need one!!
Also, the mm numbers on the lenses suggested - do I have to convert those - the digital conversion or are they accurate as listed (28-135=28-135)?
Message edited by author 2005-03-16 21:09:30.
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03/16/2005 10:09:05 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by autumncat:
Can someone explain how a macro lens works? Basically, what is the difference between a macro lens and a zoom lens when the mm# is the same (ie a 105mm or a 105mm macro).
What mm would be the best for a macro?
What do I look for in a tripod? I didn't realize that one was all that better than another or that different.
Also, the mm numbers on the lenses suggested - do I have to convert those - the digital conversion or are they accurate as listed (28-135=28-135)? |
???
As I stated earlier you don't have to have a macro lens to shoot macro. An extension tube will work. The main difference between a 105mm tele and a 105mm macro is that a macro lens will focus closer. You can covert any lens into a macro by adding an extension tube.
My favorite macro lens is actually my 600/4 with the extension tube added. I can get great magnafication and still be 10' away. The longer the focal length of the lens the further you can be from your subject and still achieve the same magnafication. Therefore the Canon Telephoto EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro will alow you true 1:1 magnafication at the closest focus distance of 5.9" while you can achieve the same 1:1 with the EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro Lens at 19". there is an obvious and great advantage when shooting something like a butterfly or a wasp to being as far from the subject as possible.
The tripod question:
Look for a tripod that is rated at at least twice the weight as what you plan to put on it. My advice as always would be to stick to Bogen/Manfrotto or Gitzo. THIS SHOULD BE ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU BUY> Get it before or at the same time you get your macro lens. The lens is near worthless without a steady tripod.
The last question about the numbers you lost me on.
Message edited by author 2005-03-16 22:11:01.
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03/16/2005 10:25:12 PM · #44 |
My EOS 20D should arrive tomorrow. What lens filters do ya'll recommend for both protection as well as effect. Recommendation on speedlight also appreciated, stick with the Canon and which one of go third party? THANKS
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03/16/2005 10:30:45 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Also, the mm numbers on the lenses suggested - do I have to convert those - the digital conversion or are they accurate as listed (28-135=28-135)?
???
As I stated earlier you don't have to have a macro lens to shoot macro. An extension tube will work. The main difference between a 105mm tele and a 105mm macro is that a macro lens will focus closer. You can covert any lens into a macro by adding an extension tube.
My favorite macro lens is actually my 600/4 with the extension tube added. I can get great magnafication and still be 10' away. The longer the focal length of the lens the further you can be from your subject and still achieve the same magnafication. Therefore the Canon Telephoto EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro will alow you true 1:1 magnafication at the closest focus distance of 5.9" while you can achieve the same 1:1 with the EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro Lens at 19". there is an obvious and great advantage when shooting something like a butterfly or a wasp to being as far from the subject as possible.
The tripod question:
Look for a tripod that is rated at at least twice the weight as what you plan to put on it. My advice as always would be to stick to Bogen/Manfrotto or Gitzo. THIS SHOULD BE ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU BUY> Get it before or at the same time you get your macro lens. The lens is near worthless without a steady tripod.
The last question about the numbers you lost me on. |
Thank you - I never realized what the extension tube was. It looks very similar to a teleconverter.
The number thing I lost you on - basically the Equivalent 35mm Focal length. I found this site: //www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/10d300dlenses.html that explains that the focal length has to be converted using the "1.6x" cropping factor.
So I am trying to decide on the best focal length for my standard walk around lens. Difficult to decide which will be best for what shots I want to take.
Message edited by author 2005-03-16 22:31:47.
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03/16/2005 10:31:00 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
My EOS 20D should arrive tomorrow. What lens filters do ya'll recommend for both protection as well as effect. Recommendation on speedlight also appreciated, stick with the Canon and which one of go third party? THANKS |
UV/Haze or clear. You've spent a lot on your camera and lens. Don't skimp now when it comes to filters. Get a multi coated fitler by Pentax, Hoya or Tiffen.
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03/16/2005 11:31:01 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
My EOS 20D should arrive tomorrow. What lens filters do ya'll recommend for both protection as well as effect. Recommendation on speedlight also appreciated, stick with the Canon and which one of go third party? THANKS |
UV/Haze or clear. You've spent a lot on your camera and lens. Don't skimp now when it comes to filters. Get a multi coated fitler by Pentax, Hoya or Tiffen. |
Or a better quality even... B+W, Heliopan.
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03/16/2005 11:33:01 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
My EOS 20D should arrive tomorrow. What lens filters do ya'll recommend for both protection as well as effect. Recommendation on speedlight also appreciated, stick with the Canon and which one of go third party? THANKS |
UV/Haze or clear. You've spent a lot on your camera and lens. Don't skimp now when it comes to filters. Get a multi coated fitler by Pentax, Hoya or Tiffen. |
Or a better quality even... B+W, Heliopan. |
That will work too.
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03/17/2005 12:54:36 AM · #49 |
As for memory cards, get at least two, a 1 gig and a 512 would suffice. The Sandisk Extreme III 1gig rates the best for the 20D, edging out the Lexar by a small margin. Here's the test results: Rob Galbraith's CF Database for 20D
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03/17/2005 01:13:54 AM · #50 |
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