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02/08/2005 05:56:16 AM · #1 |
I am not so sure that fire fox IS faster than internet explorer. I agree it looks like some of the images load faster, however i tested both browsers using numion
Firefox got: 210 kbps
Internet Explorer got: 315: kbps
and yes i have that 'make firefox fast' fix thing....
What are others comparisons with the two browsers..
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02/08/2005 06:12:37 AM · #2 |
For me the issue isn't really that it's faster. For me it's a resource thing; the tabbed browser lets me keep many more windows open without worrying I am stressing my system resources.
Robt.
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02/08/2005 06:47:01 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
For me the issue isn't really that it's faster. For me it's a resource thing; the tabbed browser lets me keep many more windows open without worrying I am stressing my system resources.
Robt. |
IE doesn't run itself again to open a new window -- there is only one instance of IE running per launch of the program. That is, with task manager open, I can see there is one instance of IE running -- when I click on a link (or shift-click to force or File/New/New Window) that opens in a new window it is another window for the same instance of IE; not another instance. This uses similar resources as opening another window (a tab) within the one instance of FF. IF I click on the shortcut I will launch another instance of IE, but that takes a deliberate action on my part.
David
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02/08/2005 07:11:08 AM · #4 |
Firefox: 186 kbps
(with 4 other tabs open, all images displayed correctly)
IE: 177 kbps
(no other windows open, 2 images not displaying at all)
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02/08/2005 07:12:57 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
IE doesn't run itself again to open a new window |
It still has to draw/keep track of all the extra windows/menubars/toolbars/frames though. Anybody who ever overloaded Win95 will know that that *does* take extra resources : )
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02/08/2005 07:27:00 AM · #6 |
No officail tests here, but for me, personally, Firefox is much faster to use with the tabs rather than always clicking to a new window. It is "faster" in that it is easier to keep track of things.
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02/08/2005 07:54:19 AM · #7 |
| Firefox works much better on linux for me ;) |
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02/08/2005 07:58:45 AM · #8 |
I think tabbed browsing is incredibly annoying. I can see how it'd be great if all you did was go to internet websites...but if I'm running different programs in the background, I don't want to have to click on the Firefox TAB, then on the actual tab of the site I'm at...
I tried it for about half an hour and immediately removed it from my system. I much prefer my IE with the beautiful Yahoo toolbar that instantly gets me anywhere I need to be...
Oh, and speed isn't an issue for me...I didn't notice a difference (subjectively speaking)...
Message edited by author 2005-02-08 08:00:13.
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02/08/2005 08:20:39 AM · #9 |
I don't get any spyware on my computer running Firefox. With IE I have to run Spybot Search and Destroy about once a day to remove all the spyware that makes it onto my computer. That is the biggest advantage of Firefox to me. I also think it is a little faster, but that is tougher to quantify. I don't use the TABS feature very often, but every once in awhile it comes in handy. The automatic pop-up blocking is also a very nice feature in Firefox and works better than the third party add-ons that I use with IE.
The only downside I have found is that a few websites/plug-ins don't work well with Firefox. |
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02/08/2005 08:38:27 AM · #10 |
The main difference is that over the past few years it has been made painfully obvious that using Internet Explorer is akin to playing American Football while completely naked. Whereas with Firefox, you are wearing regulation American Football padding and a helment.
I am not saying that you can't get hurt using Firefox, because Football players still get hurt, even with their padding and helmets. You are just less likely to get 'hurt' then if you went to play Football while being naked.
Even with all of the Internet Explorer patches of the past few years, the best they have come up with, so far, is equipment similar to American Football uniforms/padding that was used way back in the beginning of the sport. Which means you still have to be extremely careful about what you do with it.
That's the best analogy that I can come up with.
All I know is that I have been IE Free since 1999 and haven't had any malware applications installed because of simply going to a web-page. My wife, on the other hand, had quite a number of malware apps installed on her PC, just by surfing the web, she never clicked on any of those 'Make your PC go Faster!!!' links or anything similar. Since cleaning off her PC and having her use Firefox, no more problems. |
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02/08/2005 09:20:00 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I think tabbed browsing is incredibly annoying. |
You don't *have* to use use it. Firefox will quite happily spawn a million windows if that's what you prefer : )
That Yahoo toolbar is the scourge of my life at the moment. The popup blocker is so aggressive that it blocks perfectly valid popups which Firefox and IE6 let through. If I could bill Yahoo for the time I've wasted with irate users I could retire ... almost.
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02/08/2005 09:20:20 AM · #12 |
Why should you use Firefox and dump IE?
Two words: ActiveX Controls
This Microsoft IE specific feature that allows the web browser to execute programs on the system from a webpage without the security precautions of java is responsible for the majority of spyware infections on Windows PC's. The extensions, popup blocking, and tabbed browsing are great, but they are not the main reason for choosing Firefox. Security and stability are paramount.
Although, at this point, I don't think I could live without the tabbed browsing, personally. |
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02/08/2005 09:28:48 AM · #13 |
I've had FireFox and IE installed for quite some time now. Mostly to make sure webpages look the same. IE is the default browser.
As far as the speed at which a page loads there doesn't appear to be a clear winner. Some pages load slightly faster in FireFox others load slightly faster in IE. The differences are in tenths of a second. IE does seem to pull its cached pages slightly faster than FireFox but the differences are in hundredths of a second.
The tabbed browsing which everyone seems to rave about is, for me, annoying at best. Fortunately, FireFox does offer another window option.
Another argument that people constantly use for FireFox is that it offers more viewable area. I like to make all my tools as small as possible and have the address bar on the same line as the menus. IE gives you ~1/16" more viewing area. So FireFox doesn't give you more but the difference is also meaningless. Using tabs in FireFox though makes the difference about 1/2" in favor of IE.
Other features FireFox users rave about....
Active X, JVM, etc security issues. I've disabled Active X and use Sun's JVM so it's not the security concern that FireFox makes it out to be.
Download manager built into FireFox. This one is a non-issue for me as I don't need a DL manager. I can see where this would come in handy though for all the warez kiddies.
A plethora of keyboard shortcuts. I don't use keyboard shortcuts for the most part so this isn't a selling point.
Easier bookmarking. While I do agree that the in browser organizer is better in FireFox I think it's no more convenient for me than using Windows Explorer.
Google search built in to FireFox. Call me old fashion but if I want to search I go to the website I want to search from so again, not a selling point.
Pop-up blocking. The few sites that I do visit that have pop-ups don't bother me. Then again, I don't visit porn, joke of the day, and warez sites, in other words, sites that tend to have a lot of pop-ups.
Extensibility. Well, here is a point in favor of FireFox. There are a few extensions that are kinda neat. Most of them are gimmicky and useless but nevertheless it would be nice for IE to be more open.
Not a MS product/Open Source. Well, can't argue with that. If you think MS is the devil then FireFox is the way to go. Personally, it just isn't an issue for me, I would use either.
In the end though I think it's a wash. Use which ever product you want because it makes little difference.
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02/08/2005 09:46:24 AM · #14 |
The best thing about Firefox is finally there seems to be widespread competition again for Browsers. Not since Netscape, whose use has been on a steady decline, has there been anyone putting pressure on MS to do more with IE.
MS will do what it always does, let someone else innovate. They'll incorporate those innovations later and claim them as their own.
Loading FoxNews.com in Firefox with the speed enhancements and running in IE, Firefox wins hands down speed wise. |
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02/08/2005 10:27:00 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
The tabbed browsing which everyone seems to rave about is, for me, annoying at best. Fortunately, FireFox does offer another window option.
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Enjoying tabbed browsing is both a matter of personal preference based in part how one adjusts to change. From what I understand, tabbed browsing will be a feature of virtually all web browsers in the future, starting for Microsoft with the release of the "Longhorn" operating system. (At least the last time I read something about it.)
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Another argument that people constantly use for FireFox is that it offers more viewable area. I like to make all my tools as small as possible and have the address bar on the same line as the menus. IE gives you ~1/16" more viewing area. So FireFox doesn't give you more but the difference is also meaningless. Using tabs in FireFox though makes the difference about 1/2" in favor of IE.
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This really isn't a reason good or bad. It's a matter of personal preference that in the end is equal to a hill of beans.
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Other features FireFox users rave about....
Active X, JVM, etc security issues. I've disabled Active X and use Sun's JVM so it's not the security concern that FireFox makes it out to be.
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Now we are getting somewhere! Most computer users simply don't know enough to perform the above 'Security' actions in Internet Explorer and will often become quite agitated at being forced to learn such things or to even be walked through setting up such things.
Now, Microsoft could, by default, make the settings ultra-secure and setup the Windows Update site as a 'Safe-Zone', but what about all those banking web-sites that use ActiveX Controls? What about all of those other sites that are ran by legitimate interests that use ActiveX Controls? Does MS now have to create lists of those sites? Wait, they could create a 'Security' certificate of some kind, except those can and have been spoofed in the past, so you are back at square one. The end user will need to manually input 'Safe Zone' web sites.
Nope, it is much better for the end user to use an inherently 'safe' web browser and then go through the 'hassle' of switching to IE *just* for those sites that require IE.
I have instituted that policy in our organization and my users simply accept that and have no problem with using Mozilla for everything, save a few client data transfer web sites that require IE.
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Download manager built into FireFox. This one is a non-issue for me as I don't need a DL manager. I can see where this would come in handy though for all the warez kiddies.
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Can you make a more inflammatory statement? Warez kiddies?
The download manager is pretty helpful, especially if you are on a poor Internet connection, being able to resume a download after a disconnect can be extremely useful, if faced with a long wait to get something downloaded. Before I had broadband I highly disliked running a long download, to get an update for an application or game, only to be disconnected near the end of a 40 minute download and have to start everything over from the beginning.
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
A plethora of keyboard shortcuts. I don't use keyboard shortcuts for the most part so this isn't a selling point.
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Internet Explorer has a plethora of keyboard shortcuts too. Not all of them are easily documented straight in the menu interface, but that doesn't mean they aren't there!
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Easier bookmarking. While I do agree that the in browser organizer is better in FireFox I think it's no more convenient for me than using Windows Explorer.
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Personally, I think it is much more convenient to have all of my bookmarks saved off as one single HTML file that I can later do with as I please. Whether that is saving me time when I develop a web-site, where I can just copy/paste from my 'bookmark' file or simply copy that file over to a new PC. Firefox makes playing with bookmarks so excellently easy by saving it all off in one HTML file.
It is even cross platform compatible! That means if I switch to Solaris, AIX, any flavor of Linux, any BSD, MacOSX or any version of Windows, my bookmark file can travel with me!
If you really know your stuff and run the right OS, like MacOSX or some UNIX-like OS, you can have your bookmark file uploaded to a webpage periodically in an automatic fashion. So, if you have a web-page and end up traveling somewhere without your PC and feel the need to see or share some web-page from your bookmark, all you will need to do is head to your 'bookmark' section of your web-page and voila' there it is.
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Google search built in to FireFox. Call me old fashion but if I want to search I go to the website I want to search from so again, not a selling point.
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You are old fashioned. (You did ask) Then again, I haven't used that feature myself. It is there as a convenience, but just because it is there doesn't mean you have to use it.
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Pop-up blocking. The few sites that I do visit that have pop-ups don't bother me. Then again, I don't visit porn, joke of the day, and warez sites, in other words, sites that tend to have a lot of pop-ups.
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Again with the inflammatory comments!
There are plenty of legitimate sites that have pop-ups that are rather annoying that have nothing to do with porn, jokes of the day or warez sites. This is a matter of personal preference. Personally, I would rather not have pop-ups in the first place and honestly haven't seen them since Pop-up blocking became a feature in Mozilla, what almost two years back?
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Extensibility. Well, here is a point in favor of FireFox. There are a few extensions that are kinda neat. Most of them are gimmicky and useless but nevertheless it would be nice for IE to be more open.
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Some will use it, some won't. This is a nifty feature, if you are interested in that sort of thing.
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
Not a MS product/Open Source. Well, can't argue with that. If you think MS is the devil then FireFox is the way to go. Personally, it just isn't an issue for me, I would use either.
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You have already said that you aren't 'hip' to using Firefox and only use it to maintain web-site compatibility. If that's really all you are interested in, there are web-sites out there that will scan your page and show you how it would look in dozens of different web browsers, even that old Sun entirely written in Java web browser and even Mosaic 1.0.
If you want to be really 'hardcore' and if you are concerned about visually impaired web surfers, those pages will even show how your page will be read by the computer, by showing you what it looks like in a Text-based web browser, similar to Lynx. |
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02/08/2005 10:34:24 AM · #16 |
The stuff I like about Firefox
Standards support. It actually has some.
Tabbed browsing. Painful in the default configuration, can't live without it when properly configured with the Tab browser extensions
Open groups of bookmarks. I have maybe 5 groups of pages that I visit regularly - 10 news sites, 5 photography sites and so on. I can open all of them in each set with one click.
Radial gesture context menus.
Easy proxy management, handy for VPN connections.
Weather in the toolbar
RSS feed integration
Pop-up blocking - haven't seen a pop-up or ad for years.
Online bookmark storage, share my bookmarks between home, work, 3 laptops, and across 3 OSes
Built-in Google, IMDB, Amazon and BHPhoto (!) websearches
Just start typing 'find in page' features (\text to find in general text, just start typing to find something in a link)
That last feature is about my favourite overall.
Message edited by author 2005-02-08 10:37:04. |
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02/08/2005 10:45:24 AM · #17 |
It sounds like there are some neat features that Firefox has that I'm also getting as part of my Rogers Yahoo! account.
The fact that my homepage now has my favourites on it is great...can be accessed anywhere.
Weather on my home page, search on the toolbar, (incredible!) radio station at a click, photos at a click..everything's right there. It notifies me of email and opens it with a click.
I guess the reason I'm not huge on Firefox is because most of the cool stuff my internet offers me is through my ISP through the toolbar and homepage.
I do like the idea of opening a group of bookmarks, though...
Oh, and I haven't seen a popup in forever, either...in fact, someone commented below that the Yahoo toolbar blocks 'too many' popups. So apparently, it's working...
Message edited by author 2005-02-08 10:46:01.
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02/08/2005 01:14:45 PM · #18 |
Concerning Firefox I am also very happy with the very small Adblock plugin I downloaded and can configure myself. There are less and less pages with adds on them.
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02/08/2005 03:08:31 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
The fact that my homepage now has my favourites on it is great...can be accessed anywhere. |
It's a wee bit different to having all the links on one web page. The folders, links, RSS settings etc that I can manage from the 'bookmarks' (like favourites in IE) are all synched across my laptops, work machine and home PCs, So I can edit, sort and generally move them around using the normal tools but they all keep up to date, and are viewable from any computer via a webpage too.
Works quite nicely. |
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02/08/2005 03:10:19 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
The fact that my homepage now has my favourites on it is great...can be accessed anywhere. |
It's a wee bit different to having all the links on one web page. The folders, links, RSS settings etc that I can manage from the 'bookmarks' (like favourites in IE) are all synched across my laptops, work machine and home PCs, So I can edit, sort and generally move them around using the normal tools but they all keep up to date, and are viewable from any computer via a webpage too.
Works quite nicely. |
Gotcha...by the way, you're the only one that doesn't sound like he works for Mozilla in this thread!
What is it with the Firefox elitism anyway? It's like Mac vs. PC...or black rebel vs. silver rebel...
;0)
Message edited by author 2005-02-08 15:10:43.
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02/08/2005 03:11:41 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Gotcha...by the way, you're the only one that doesn't sound like he works for Mozilla in this thread!
What is it with the Firefox elitism anyway? It's like Mac vs. PC...or black rebel vs. silver rebel...
;0) |
Maybe it's because I can remember an internet before the web.
//www.spreadfirefox.com/ ;)
Btw, if anyone wants the BHPhoto search plugin I wrote, let me know :)
Message edited by author 2005-02-08 15:14:19. |
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02/08/2005 03:25:44 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
...by the way, you're the only one that doesn't sound like he works for Mozilla in this thread! |
Too funny : )
I'll leave you to figure out why.
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02/08/2005 03:29:49 PM · #23 |
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02/08/2005 03:34:17 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
What is it with the Firefox elitism anyway? It's like Mac vs. PC...or black rebel vs. silver rebel... |
Yes, it's very strange. If you tell someone you don't use it or don't think it to be as nifty keen as they think they start acting like 16th century Catholic missionaries in the Brazilian jungle.
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02/08/2005 03:42:25 PM · #25 |
| Does anyone know how to access hotmail via thunderbird and/or firefox? Hotmail.com tells me that I need to enable cookies whenever I try to visit it with firefox even though I DO have cookies enabled and have "allowed" the site. Thunderbird just tells me it can't connect. Whenever I ask someone else about the problem, they're just like "Pssh, it's Microsoft." Wha? Are they saying that the site has some extra security feature that disallows non IE browsing or what? |
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