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01/21/2005 02:01:21 PM · #51 |
I went through this nightmare with malware and popups a year ago and it was very difficult to get rid of it all. No long ago my hard drive crashed and I suspect it may have been directly related to that problem. I don't know. I have a new hard drive, I am more careful, and things seems relatively fine for now. I will be trying some of these new tips that were discussed here to safeguard my computer further, thanks guys.
Now for my rant. I am really tired of the casual attitude that so many people, mostly the more advanced computer users, have toward this issue. Maybe it is simple for you to know how to prevent these malicious codes from getting into your computer but it isn't that simple for the millions of other casual users who just want their computers to work. I keep hearing people say, "Just get Adaware or PopupStopper or this or that and change your settings to this and you won't have problems. The point is WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO and it is the makers of the malicious scripts, trojan horses, whatever, that are at fault and THEY should be punished. I am willing to do what I can to prevent this stuff from getting on my computer but many people don't know about it or are still trying to learn about it and it is wrong to have such unreasonable expectations that every user be a computer genious so they can handle this crap. It is this casual attitude plus the fact that so many manufacturers are getting rich by making preventitive software that there is such an unwillingness to really address the problem. Until people stop acting like it is no big deal nothing significant is going to fix this problem. Ok, end of rant. I really feel much better now :)
T
Message edited by author 2005-01-21 14:03:35.
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01/21/2005 02:07:40 PM · #52 |
Timj - I wholeheartedly agree with you that we shouldn't have to take all these preventative measures to stop unauthorised people installing software on our computers. It should be illegal and the offenders should be arrested and punished.
A quick comment on routers. AVOID the all-in-one ADSL/router/wireless access point products on the market. Specifically DO NOT BUY a Netgear DG-834G, a Linksys WAG54G or a D-Link DSL-G604T. Product names may very slightly for the USA - these are UK product names. All three and particularly the first two are apallingly bad at maintaining a wireless connection and both have been known to crash totally needing a reset before you get your internet connection back. The Netgear in particular crashes a lot. The Linksys as very poor firmware with no end of bugs. The D-Link is just plain hard to configure and older firmwares are buggy.
My advice, if you want wireless and a firewalling router is to buy these components separately and avoid the all-in-one products. Linksys and Netgear are usually reliable names but I have had very bad experiences with these products in particular.
John
Message edited by author 2005-01-21 14:13:45. |
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01/21/2005 02:13:04 PM · #53 |
Interesting post, Tim. I'm curious as to what sort of response it is you're looking for from the more advanced computer users? Sure, you shouldn't have to protect yourself from viruses and adware but that doesn't make it the fault of those who took the measures to protect themselves. The fact of the matter is, it's not that hard to protect yourself. I frequently feel exactly the opposite of what you've stated...that people blow things so out of proportion. "Oh, if you use Internet Explorer, you're doomed and your computer will likely burst into flames immediately," etc. etc. Bull.
The thing is, if you're going to pay enough to own a computer, you should be willing to take the time to figure out how to safeguard it. The world is full of information on how to do it and when you do it correctly in the beginning, it's not difficult at all and you save yourself a world of hurt. I'm not sure how the more advanced computer users freaking out because the less advanced users didn't take the time to use proper precautions is going to rid the world of this problem. |
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01/21/2005 02:15:03 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by timj351:
Now for my rant. I am really tired of the casual attitude that so many people, mostly the more advanced computer users, have toward this issue. Maybe it is simple for you know how to prevent these malicious codes from getting into your computer but it isn't that simple for the millions of other casual users who just want their computers to work. I keep hearing people say, "Just get Adaware or PopupStopper or this or that and change your settings to this and you won't have problems. The point is WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO and it is the makers of the malicious scripts, trojan horses, whatever, that are at fault and THEY should be punished. I am willing to do what I can to prevent this stuff from getting on my computer but many people don't know about it or are still trying to learn about it and it is wrong to have such unreasonable expectations that every user be a computer genious so they can handle this crap. It is this casual attitude plus the fact that so many manufacturers are getting rich by making preventitive software that there is such an unwillingness to really address the problem. Until people stop acting like it is no big deal nothing significant is going to fix this problem. Ok, end of rant. I really fix much better now :)
T |
You can't blame advanced computer users for this problem. Many of us use Operating Systems that are immune to these problems. The only thing to blame this on is a certain Software Monopolist.
All of these problems aren't "Computer Problems", they are Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Internet Explorer and Microsoft Outlook problems. You simply do not see these problems propagated by MacOSX or Linux computers. It is because they are built from the ground up in a more secure fashion.
People and certain corporations work very hard at making these problems seem to be "Computer Problems", when in fact they never should have been problems in the first place and are relegated to one overly present computing platform.
It's very unfortunate that we are stuck with the results of poor design decisions that considered PC security as an afterthought. |
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01/21/2005 02:16:26 PM · #55 |
That's a little harsh MK. Microsoft spend their whole time telling people how easy and safe computers are. It's not the public's fault when they believe them.
I honestly agree that computers should be made easier and safer. The spammers and malware writers are a scourge and I am keen to do whatever I can to see them removed.
And while we're on the subject - Linux and MacOSX are not totally immune to these attacks. Sure they are more secure than Windows (much more actually) but the main reason they don't suffer the attacks is because very few people (comparative to Windows) use them. They're a much less interesting target for the hackers.
John
Message edited by author 2005-01-21 14:18:35. |
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01/21/2005 02:18:28 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by floyd:
My advice, if you want wireless and a firewalling router is to buy these components separately and avoid the all-in-one products. Linksys and Netgear are usually reliable names but I have had very bad experiences with these products in particular.
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And when you go wireless, please use encryption, as strong as possible.
I know people who have had so much 'fun' riding around with their laptop searching for free internet (your account)....
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01/21/2005 02:18:37 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by floyd:
... Second thing - install a decent anti-virus (NOT McAfee or Norton). |
What else is out there that is decent/reliable? We use McAfee at work, and I use Norton at home - both seem ok.
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01/21/2005 02:19:45 PM · #58 |
The Netgear WGT624 is a piece of crap to. When it was working it was always diconecting and reconecting about every 20 minutes. This model is an all-in-one. My son picked this out so he could run his laptop online while he was out in the driveway in his car or walking around the house. I don't need the wireless myself.
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01/21/2005 02:21:18 PM · #59 |
I have a real problem with McAfee (who also own Norton). Their customer support is next to non-existant for anyone outside the UK. In addition their size seems to make them slow to respond when a new virus is identified.
Worst of all their product actually install something that I regard as Malware. They come with a "McAfee Security Center" thing which pops up every time you boot your PC and tells you which of their products you've still not bought.
I dislike McAfee in a way that borders on rabid hatred. This comes from attempting to deal with them when I had a problem.
John |
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01/21/2005 02:26:54 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Nelzie:
[quote=timj351]...Many of us use Operating Systems that are immune to these problems. The only thing to blame this on is a certain Software Monopolist... |
Yep, Bill is Satan :-P
In reality, there is no OS that is immune, and as an advanced user, you should know this. A large part of why Windows is attacked with such regularity is simply because it is used on the majority of machines out there. The writers of malware will of course target the biggest population of machines.
That said, yes, Microsoft has brought some of this on themselves, they have done some pretty shortsighted things. But then, when something goes bad, it's pretty easy to say "well, Duh, I would have known THAT!" Hindsight truly is 20/20.
For the record, I use Windows XP, SP2 (and more recent updates), and have a router. I run IE 6.0 and have had no malware on my personal machine. I tried Firefox, ran it for 2+ weeks, and in the end I decided to go back to IE.
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01/21/2005 02:36:12 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by floyd:
McAfee (who also own Norton). |
I don't think that's true. |
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01/21/2005 02:45:13 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by Nelzie:
[quote=timj351]...Many of us use Operating Systems that are immune to these problems. The only thing to blame this on is a certain Software Monopolist... |
Yep, Bill is Satan :-P
In reality, there is no OS that is immune, and as an advanced user, you should know this. A large part of why Windows is attacked with such regularity is simply because it is used on the majority of machines out there. The writers of malware will of course target the biggest population of machines.
That said, yes, Microsoft has brought some of this on themselves, they have done some pretty shortsighted things. But then, when something goes bad, it's pretty easy to say "well, Duh, I would have known THAT!" Hindsight truly is 20/20.
For the record, I use Windows XP, SP2 (and more recent updates), and have a router. I run IE 6.0 and have had no malware on my personal machine. I tried Firefox, ran it for 2+ weeks, and in the end I decided to go back to IE. |
The idea that virus writers target the most commonly used PC OS is a logical fallacy that is simply not backed up by facts. They target the easiest to crack systems.
The most widely used Web Server software has been the Apache web server for a considerable number of years. It runs something close or more then 50% of all Web sites on the planet. Microsoft's Internet Information Services Web server runs far fewer web-sites, I believe close to 20% or less of the Internet's web sites. If what you say is true, then logic would dictate that Apache would be the most hacked web-server software.
That's not the case. The most hacked web-server software happens to be MS IIS and not Apache. These are not direct attacks on the Operating System that are the cause of these hacks, these are direct attacks on the web server process. It doesn't matter which OS Apache is running on, it simply has fewer exploits and has been exploited far less then IIS, even when Apache is ran on top of a Microsoft Windows Server.
BTW, at home I run Windows XP Professional, I haven't used Internet Explorer for casual or otherwise web browsing since 2000. The only time that I do use IE is for Windows Update. I also have not been infected with any Trojans, Worms or what-have you. I am not suggesting that it's impossible to run Windows and be free of such issues, I am just stating what I have seen in the past 10 years of interacting with Windows, Linux, UNIX and other Operating Systems.
Yes, Linux and UNIX isn't immune to being cracked. Except that there was a recently study that concluded that a default install Windows XP Machine will be cracked within an average of 6 minutes of being hooked straight up to the Internet. Another study concluded that a default current release install of Linux might be cracked as early as 6 months after being hooked up to the Internet.
The Windows machines get cracked by automated worms that require nothing special, other then direct access to the Windows machine. The Linux machines were cracked due to Brute Force Password cracking techniques. If you are unaware, Brute Force Password cracking can be an automated process where a computer will constantly attempt various combinations of possible passwords, until it gets the right one.
I am not arguing from some 'Religious OS Zealot' position, I am pointing out clear factual studies that have shown the security capabilities of modern Operating Systems. |
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01/21/2005 02:45:13 PM · #63 |
I am specifically addressing malicious software and any other programs that are made specifically to cause harm to or disrupt computers. I am not addressing common incompatibility issues due to the very complex nature of computers. The incompatibility issues suck but are much more understandable. I am not blaming advanced users, I am saying that too many have a very complacent attitude towards this because they know how to prevent the problems. They have been around computers for long enough so that much of this stuff is now easy. Whenever this issue is discussed I see far more responses about easy preventitive measures then I see about dealing with the criminals that make this software. Of course people should try to do what they can to safeguard their computers but everyone has different degrees of knowledge on this quickly evolving problem and it is unreasonable to simply put all the responsibility on them. They are not the ones doing anything wrong they are just trying to use their computers the best they know how. I am fairly competent with computers but I still got hit by some malware that I wasn't prepared for and it totally messed things up. Now I am supposed to expect my mom and millions just like her, who know little about computers, to study up on these issues completely so they understand it all, before they turn on their new computer for the first time and connect to the internet? It may not be the smartest thing to do with no knowledge of what you are doing but many people aren't that smart in that way and they are simply unaware of the risks. Computers have been evolving so that they are easier and easier for average people to use and now suddenly these serious threats occur and now its back to requiring a significant amount of knowledge again to use them safely. Does anyone else see the irony in that?
T
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01/21/2005 02:45:51 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by timj351:
I went through this nightmare with malware and popups a year ago and it was very difficult to get rid of it all. No long ago my hard drive crashed and I suspect it may have been directly related to that problem. I don't know. I have a new hard drive, I am more careful, and things seems relatively fine for now. I will be trying some of these new tips that were discussed here to safeguard my computer further, thanks guys.
Now for my rant. I am really tired of the casual attitude that so many people, mostly the more advanced computer users, have toward this issue. Maybe it is simple for you to know how to prevent these malicious codes from getting into your computer but it isn't that simple for the millions of other casual users who just want their computers to work. I keep hearing people say, "Just get Adaware or PopupStopper or this or that and change your settings to this and you won't have problems. The point is WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO and it is the makers of the malicious scripts, trojan horses, whatever, that are at fault and THEY should be punished. I am willing to do what I can to prevent this stuff from getting on my computer but many people don't know about it or are still trying to learn about it and it is wrong to have such unreasonable expectations that every user be a computer genious so they can handle this crap. It is this casual attitude plus the fact that so many manufacturers are getting rich by making preventitive software that there is such an unwillingness to really address the problem. Until people stop acting like it is no big deal nothing significant is going to fix this problem. Ok, end of rant. I really feel much better now :)
T |
Write to your congressman/senator...
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01/21/2005 02:47:28 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by timj351:
I am specifically addressing malicious software and any other programs that are made specifically to cause harm to or disrupt computers. I am not addressing common incompatibility issues due to the very complex nature of computers. The incompatibility issues suck but are much more understandable. I am not blaming advanced users, I am saying that too many have a very complacent attitude towards this because they know how to prevent the problems. They have been around computers for long enough so that much of this stuff is now easy. Whenever this issue is discussed I see far more responses about easy preventitive measures then I see about dealing with the criminals that make this software. Of course people should try to do what they can to safeguard their computers but everyone has different degrees of knowledge on this quickly evolving problem and it is unreasonable to simply put all the responsibility on them. They are not the ones doing anything wrong they are just trying to use their computers the best they know how. I am fairly competent with computers but I still got hit by some malware that I wasn't prepared for and it totally messed things up. Now I am supposed to expect my mom and millions just like her, who know little about computers, to study up on these issues completely so they understand it all, before they turn on their new computer for the first time and connect to the internet? It may not be the smartest thing to do with no knowledge of what you are doing but many people aren't that smart in that way and they are simply unaware of the risks. Computers have been evolving so that they are easier and easier for average people to use and now suddenly these serious threats occur and now its back to requiring a significant amount of knowledge again to use them safely. Does anyone else see the irony in that?
T |
Get your mom a MacMini and she won't have those problems. They are inexpensive, easy to use, easy to learn and make attractive decorative displays all on their own. |
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01/21/2005 02:51:08 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by floyd:
McAfee (who also own Norton). |
I don't think that's true. |
It's not, Symantec owns the Norton line of products.
David
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01/21/2005 02:51:28 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Get your mom a MacMini and she won't have those problems. They are inexpensive, easy to use, easy to learn and make attractive decorative displays all on their own. |
You just may have a point there : ]
T
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01/21/2005 02:54:25 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by Nelzie:
The problem is that Windows, even with a software firewall, is just unsafe to connect directly to the Internet. You really have to install a seperate broadband router/firewall between your computer and the cable or DSL modem and also swear off of Microsoft Internet Explorer.
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I guess that is what the problem is. My crappy netgear router stopped working all together a few days ago (it's six months old) and I hooked the computer directly to the cable modem. That is when I started getting pop-ups. |
That sounds like the Messenger service exploit (not related to instant messaging). A quick search will help you disable it. Sorry for the shortness of the reply, but I am on my way to work and simply don't have the time for a longer one.
David
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01/21/2005 03:03:40 PM · #69 |
I just had XP (with the service pack included) put on our computers at work...our IT guy didn't put on the service packs. I can't remember why, something to do with our network I think...(drawing a blank).[/quote]
The IT guy will know more about how your system works within the network at work, and it better informed for making decision on what should or should not be installed. Always check with, and then listen to, the IT guy before changing anything on your work's system.
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
I'd clean off my PC and start from scratch except all my photos are on there and I don't have a DVD burner (that'd be one hell of a lot of CDs to burn). I was told my PC which is 3 years old probably couldn't hold a new DVD burner. |
Having worked as a repair person I can tell you the repair people are not always completely honest with you. Most just simply don't want to work on older or lower-end systems and selling you a new one is easier and quicker and in some cases, yes, even less expensive. But, it is the same as any other field that uses technology; the same as getting a better camera will not eliminate problems with composition, getting a better computer will not eliminate someones computer problems. Education is the only answer.
Any of the current line of DVD burners will work on systems that are very old (relatively speaking). The technology, such as BurnProof, that allows the drive to stop burning while the system catches up essentially allows any speed system to use one. Although they can run fairly slow -- and playing a DVD off one may be a different matter entirely.
David
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01/21/2005 03:14:30 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by nsbca7:
The Netgear WGT624 is a piece of crap to. When it was working it was always diconecting and reconecting about every 20 minutes. This model is an all-in-one. My son picked this out so he could run his laptop online while he was out in the driveway in his car or walking around the house. I don't need the wireless myself. |
Just thought I'd chime in to "defend" the Netgear. I had a linksys and bought the Netgear 624 because the linksys wireless had really poor range. I've found the 624 to be much better. In addition, I've added a second Netgear, the 614, to the other end of our house, and now I get full speed reception all over (our house is quite long, being mostly one level).
The receiver in your laptop is just as important as the transmitter. So maybe the problem is there? I don't have the Netgear card in my laptop; I have a Orinocco card on one, and the build in wireless g on my other.
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01/21/2005 03:16:25 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by floyd:
McAfee (who also own Norton). |
I don't think that's true. |
It's not, Symantec owns the Norton line of products.
David |
Hmm - perhaps it's dr solomon's that Mcafee owns then. It's one of the others that McAfee owns anyway.
John |
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01/21/2005 03:18:38 PM · #72 |
free antivirus
much lighter than McAffee and Symantec.
Message edited by author 2005-01-21 15:18:52.
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01/21/2005 03:25:26 PM · #73 |
The one maxj mentions (Grisoft AVG Antivirus) is the one I use. There are others but I've not used em.
John |
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01/21/2005 03:40:03 PM · #74 |
with AVG and the firewall built in with SP2 and regular windows updates, most users should be protected. i often "fix" computers for friends and relatives and youd be surprised how many "one-click" fixes i do.
most problems these days are often brought about by the user, not poorly programmed software (im not saying Windows is a rock wall...but common sense goes a long way). If you cant close a windows without clicking anything, or are naturally drawn to headlines reading "FREE NUDES"...then you should probably do a little reading on computer safety before clicking away on the internet.
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01/21/2005 05:23:50 PM · #75 |
The infections that my family and friends run into are caused by those stupid popups. They ask: Do you want to install this, click yes or no. It doesn't matter if you click yes or no, it is all one link. Click it and you are in the shit because it will install as long as you don't close the popup with the cross.
That sucks, they think they did the right thing by saying no, but suddenly their whole pc is a mess.
I explain what might have happened and most of the times: "Yes, that's what happened last week". My rule is: I fix it one time, I explain what can happen, I explain what to do (don't click this, don't expect porn and music to be free, don't use Kazaa, don't trust strangers on MSN-Messenger, don't change the security settings I set to see that store with all those goodies for almost nothing) and I try to protect the pc as good as I can. When you get infected again it is your problem, thanks for all the fish, goodbye. This planet will be terminated in 42 seconds.
What I don't understand is: Why is all that software so weak that a newcomer on the net, like your average mom or grandmother, can wreck their pc in a day?
Sometimes I wonder what would happen if pc's aren't vulnerable to virii anymore. Will Norton release their own ones to stay in business?
Don't they (MS, the whole industry) solve these issues because too many companies depent on the vulnerability of pc's?
edit: spelling
Message edited by author 2005-01-22 05:27:01.
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