Something you might not have known...

01/16/2005 09:17:01 AM · #1

I recently came across a comment in the forums from someone who dismissed the value of comments from another user because he had looked in their profile and noticed that, out of the total number of comments they had made, only 50% or so were marked as helpful. He seems to have assumed that the user in question wasn't/ isn't very good at making helpful comments.

To him I ask the following question:

DID YOU KNOW THAT THE MARK COMMENT AS HELPFUL FEATURE WAS IMPLEMENTED LONG AFTER THE SITE STARTED?

A great many of us who have been here for a long time made a great many comments before the helpful feedback existed. Some users did go back through older comments received and marked helpful ones as such but most people didn't - some had left the site by then, some didn't see the value of the feature, some couldn't be bothered - totally understandable.

Whilst I can't say I pay a huge amount of attention to the feature myself (since some people mark anything and everything as helpful and others mark only comments that are either wholly positive or agree wholly with their own opinions on their picture as helpful and some mark no comments at all as helpful; all of which combines to make the helpful feedback somewhat meaningless) I do think it's worth letting those who put such faith in it know about the history of it.

There you go!

Message edited by author 2005-01-16 09:17:32.

Azrifel

Fujifilm X100VI

01/16/2005 09:41:41 AM · #2

And there is also a great number of comments with only content like "Good Photo", "Great", "Congrats on your good score" marked as helpful.

Not that I mind, but it devalues the use of the "XXX comments are marked as useful"-feature. You just cannot use it to see if someone makes good comments or not. And btw, "good photo" or "congrats" are also encouraging comments so mark them as helpful if you want to, I do, but is says nothing about the content quality of the comments.

Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM

01/16/2005 09:53:22 AM · #3

Indeed.

I just found it quite ridiculous that someone would base their opinion of the comment not on it's content and how accurately it related to their image but on the % of comments the commenter had had marked as helpful!

autool

Canon EOS-20D

01/16/2005 10:16:05 AM · #4

I have since the start of the helpful thing had a hard time determining how helpful some comments actually are. It would be a nice feature if we could categorize them into groups like:
Technically Helpful
Psychologically Helpful
Humorously Helpful
Thanks I Needed That Helpful
or just:
Not Helpful at all Helpful.
Consequently I didn't go back and do all of those previously posted comments, which by the way were probably much more helpful than the majority of those few I get anymore. Now if someone just takes the time to comment I help their ego by mostly marking them helpful. Come to think of it the whole thing is........................ as this comment.

Canon EF 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 II USM

01/16/2005 10:22:32 AM · #5

Autool
I know what you mean - there are comments such as "Great pic!" that are certainly a psychological boost but little more and there are those that provide constructive ideas for improvement - both are helpful in different ways.

orussell

Canon EOS Rebel T6s

01/16/2005 10:25:05 AM · #6

I just mark them all helpful these days, unless they're totally inane. Just not used to getting comments - it's a novelty when you get one.

Canon EF 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 II USM

01/16/2005 10:26:49 AM · #7

Originally posted by orussell:

I just mark them all helpful these days, unless they're totally inane. Just not used to getting comments - it's a novelty when you get one.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying it's wrong to do that. I'm just saying that, because of the different ways in which people use the feature AND because of the fact it wasn't implemented all that long ago, using the ratio of comments marked helpful over comments made in total as a way to determine actual usefulness of comments is utterly futile.

orussell

Canon EOS Rebel T6s

01/16/2005 10:32:30 AM · #8

Originally posted by Kavey:

Originally posted by orussell:
I just mark them all helpful these days, unless they're totally inane. Just not used to getting comments - it's a novelty when you get one.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying it's wrong to do that. I'm just saying that, because of the different ways in which people use the feature AND because of the fact it wasn't implemented all that long ago, using the ratio of comments marked helpful over comments made in total as a way to determine actual usefulness of comments is utterly futile.

I agree totally when it comes to that. Myself I try to keep an open mind when I get a comment and rarely discount anyones opinion. Must admit though that when I look at the profile of the commenter, the first thing that catches my eye is their average. Way I look at it, if they have a high score, they must obviously be doing something right, so I try to learn from them.

autool

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 II USM

01/16/2005 10:34:40 AM · #9

Originally posted by orussell:

I just mark them all helpful these days, unless they're totally inane. Just not used to getting comments - it's a novelty when you get one.

This site has become a highly competitive site, a change that was inevitable. There simply isn't many helpful comments any more.

Kavey,
I agree with what you are pointing out, and peeps(just learned that here)do need to know the history of the site.

01/16/2005 10:39:32 AM · #10

Originally posted by orussell:

Must admit though that when I look at the profile of the commenter, the first thing that catches my eye is their average. Way I look at it, if they have a high score, they must obviously be doing something right, so I try to learn from them.

I see where you're coming from but... some of my most helpful comments have come from people who haven't got high averages and whose images I am not even that keen on. And likewise, I have had PMs from people telling me that a comment I have made has been exceptionally useful and really given them something new to think about/ try. My average certainly isn't high so they could easily have chosen to dismiss it based on that.

IMHO the skill of being able to look at an image and offer comments on what works, doesn't work, might work better if changed in x or y way and so on is a VERY different skill to being able to TAKE a good image.

It's definitely possible to have the former and not the latter, and judging from comments I have sometimes received from DPC Masters, it's possible to have the latter and not the former too!

I figure the best way to judge how helpful a comment is to me is to simply look at what it's saying and work out whether the insight is useful or not!

01/16/2005 10:58:00 AM · #11

No doubt this post was intended toward my post about a comment I recieved recently.

If you don't like it, don't participate.

First of all, I never said anything about the percentage of his comments that were found useful -- that was brought up by the person who replied.

And quite frankly, the comment I got ABSOLUTELY sucks. The comment was "snapshot". I didn't dismiss the ignorant commenter's comment based on his negative thoughts toward my image -- I realize not everyone is going to like everything. If you're going to comment, make it count -- if you have nothing nice (or constructive) to say then don't say anything.

Message edited by author 2005-01-16 11:00:56.

01/16/2005 10:59:59 AM · #12

Oh, and yes, I KNOW THE FEATURE WASN'T THERE ALWAYS, BUT THE USER I REFERED TO HAS ONLY BEEN HERE SINCE NOVEMBER OF 04 -- stop yelling at me!!!!!!!!

Message edited by ClubJuggle - Removed link to commenter's profile.

01/16/2005 11:07:38 AM · #13

Deapee, if you didn't bring up anything about percentage of comments that were found useful it obviously WASN'T you who made the comment I'm referring to was it? In which case my initial post wasn't aimed at you at all...

And what on earth are you talking about with your "if you don't like it, don't participate" comment? Are you suggesting that if I disagree with someone's outlook and want to discuss it that I should just leave DPC? Interesting logic.

As for your instruction on not saying anything if one has nothing nice to say, I disagree utterly.

I know I'm not alone in welcoming comments telling me what it is about my picture that people DON'T like... I find it useful and interesting to know.

If you'd said "if you have nothing constructive to say don't say anything" or "if you can't say what you have to say politely don't say anything" I'd have agreed with you.

01/16/2005 11:11:19 AM · #14

Originally posted by Kavey:

If you'd said "if you have nothing constructive to say don't say anything" or "if you can't say what you have to say politely don't say anything" I'd have agreed with you.

I see you've since edited your post to add in the constructive element. On that front I'd agree with you. I'm all for courtesy within comments.

That said, snapshot, whilst it could be taken as an insult, does let you know how the viewer perceives your image. He's not necessarily saying it IS a snapshot but that it comes over as one to him. I don't think his one word comment is actually rude at all, though it's not hugely constructive either.

01/16/2005 11:12:38 AM · #15

Originally posted by Kavey:

That said, snapshot, whilst it could be taken as an insult, does let you know how the viewer perceives your image.

Which is ALSO being shown by their vote. The reason for commenting is not to say whether or not the photo sucked. But why it sucks or how it can be bettered.

ClubJuggle

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

01/16/2005 11:16:29 AM · #16

Originally posted by deapee:

Oh, and yes, I KNOW THE FEATURE WASN'T THERE ALWAYS, BUT THE USER I REFERED TO HAS ONLY BEEN HERE SINCE NOVEMBER OF 04 -- stop yelling at me!!!!!!!!

I don't see where anyone yelled at you.

-Terry

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

01/16/2005 11:16:46 AM · #17

Originally posted by deapee:

Originally posted by Kavey:

That said, snapshot, whilst it could be taken as an insult, does let you know how the viewer perceives your image.

Which is ALSO being shown by their vote. The reason for commenting is not to say whether or not the photo sucked. But why it sucks or how it can be bettered.

I'd rather get a comment of "snapshot" with a low vote than none at all. It does give some insight into how they perceived the image without being on the same lines as "this sucks". Last time I checked, snapshot wasn't actually a swear word.

pcody

Canon PowerShot G6

01/16/2005 11:17:29 AM · #18

Wow, deapee. I think you are blowing this way out of porportion. Everyone has their own way of commenting unless they stop like I did because of attitudes much like yours. I think you owe an apology to Kavey and to the members of this site for your outburst. Man, you are mean.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

01/16/2005 11:18:26 AM · #19

Who insulted who? I'm sorry if you took offense to anything I've said, but I assure you that I didn't mean to offend you -- it is all in fun. Two people sharring a difference in opinion. If you took something to heart, let me know.

I edited out the part at the end of the first post because, apparently, it must have offended you. Sorry, I'll never debate an issue with you again. Just don't be the thread police -- starting this topic was sure to get someone fired up. It just so happened to be someone you couldn't hang with is all. Again, sorry that it got too heated for you.

ganders

Canon EOS-40D

01/16/2005 11:18:32 AM · #20

Originally posted by deapee:

The reason for commenting is not to say whether or not the photo sucked. But why it sucks or how it can be bettered.

I would have thought a comment saying that the picture felt like a snapshot was actually perfectly fulfilling your 'requirement' for it to be telling you how the photo sucked.

Of all the one-word comments, 'snapshot' would probably count as one of the more constructive! Perhaps you need an extra checkbox to only request positive, ego-stroking comments ;-)

01/16/2005 11:19:31 AM · #21

Menopausal breakdown???
If I left I'd be no loss to the site?

If that's your idea of adult debate and light hearted discussion we're obviously living in different worlds.

01/16/2005 11:22:18 AM · #22

Originally posted by pcody:

Wow, deapee. I think you are blowing this way out of porportion.

I don't feel I'm blowing anything out of proportion. I am really offended and fired up about my "snapshot" comment -- and felt like someone was defending that commenter. Obviously it is the case because everyone is saying how that comment is better than getting none at all.

I stand by my original feelings -- that comment serves no good...it's not going to help me with composition or lighting or subject matter or thought process.

I'm sorry, I take pride in my work and to see someone ignorantly share their opinion on it, and some other people back that person up, makes me a little upset.

--

And ClubJuggle, WHEN YOU TALK IN ALL CAPS ON THE INTERNET, it is called 'shouting' or 'yelling' since we can't really shout or yell on the internet ;-)

01/16/2005 11:22:56 AM · #23

Originally posted by deapee:

starting this topic was sure to get someone fired up. It just so happened to be someone you couldn't hang with is all. Again, sorry that it got too heated for you.

Actually I started the topic to motivate a few people to reconsider and perhaps to view the Helpful feature differently.

I enjoy debates of concepts and facts very much and often discuss ideas much more serious than this without any heat at all. It's just not necessary to lash out and it hardly helps make one's point.

Stating an opinion isn't being thread police - it's stating an opinion.

The biggest irony, as I mentioned above, is that the original post wasn't aimed at anything you said at all, even if it may have been said on a thread you started or participated in.

Message edited by author 2005-01-16 11:24:24.