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01/15/2005 12:46:06 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
The original post and thread title pose this as a question. From the facts of the incident as given and discussed here, I do not see any need for legal intervention. The purpose of law is not to limit individual liberties, but to prevent and curb harm. As I said, I see no harm done.
Just because you and, possibly, others find someone's conduct 'wrong, sick and wrong', is no reason I have to.
The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state.
-Tacitus |
I disagree...in some countries in Eastern Europe, young boys consent to prostitution to help the family buy food and rich men gleefully book appointments on the internet to have some fun with them. No harm done?
Sorry, that makes no sense to me. |
I fail to see what this example has to to do with the scenario posed in the original post.
The nature of the relationship between the partners is different, their motives are different, and the social circumstances are different.
In the first scenario we have voluntary parcipants, in the second there is evidence of social coercion. One is a commercial contract motivated by need and greed, the other is an amorous relationship motivated by mutual attraction.
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01/15/2005 12:53:54 PM · #77 |
If we want to play around with semantics, it was RAPE as defined by statute in the state; therefore, a rape or multiple rapes occurred. The woman should lose her job and face prison time. As always, the letter of the law defines crimes differently from state to state and country to country.
This was RAPE. |
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01/15/2005 01:07:41 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by KDO:
If we want to play around with semantics, it was RAPE as defined by statute in the state; therefore, a rape or multiple rapes occurred. The woman should lose her job and face prison time. As always, the letter of the law defines crimes differently from state to state and country to country.
This was RAPE. |
Which goes to show that law is an arbitrary measure of ethics at best, the letter of the law a capricious one. When we remind ourselves what came first, law or ethics, things might appear a little clearer.
Having a legal definition (one here, another elsewhere) should not alleviate any thinking and feeling.
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01/15/2005 01:35:33 PM · #79 |
It was rape!
Sure a 14 year old boy will consent to sex with an older woman,- I would have, if had I been given the opportunity.
Sure teenagers are having sex, but it should be teenagers. and NO its not right.
She as teacher has a fundamemtal responsibility to encourage good morals, ethics, behavior.
lastly , as a parents it is our responsibility to teach good morals, behavior , and encourage a strict sense of ethics. To have a person , more so a teacher usurp my authority , my beliefs, is without question wrong. and in this type of situation with some long term jail time.
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01/15/2005 05:29:20 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by vince31874:
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
Rape: Act of violence in wich a man imposes sexual intercourse with penatration on another person, against that person's will. |
Where did you get your definition. |
This is an acurate translation of the definition in the Petit Robert dictionary. This is the most trusted reference in the french language. French, by the way, is the most acurate language in the world. That's why all the biggest and most important legal documents around the world always have a french version.
That's why there are other names (way more accurate) for describing the case at hand. Sexual assault sounds more acurate and I would almost agree. I mean I agree with the defination eventough the expression itself, is misleading. Since I don't think there was any assault. If there really was an assault, you think the guy would be comfortable to have an erection? That's why I say men cannot get raped by women. If a woman successfully has complete intercourse (read penetration) with a man, there is no way it could be against the man's will.
I'm not saying it's okay for a teacher to have sex with their students. I think it show very poor professional ethics. I think she really should lose her job. But that's it. But if you ask me if its' wrong for a 23 year old woman to have sex with a 14 year old... No I don't think so. There isn't even a difference of age big enough. 9 years of difference?... I'd say they are at the opposite end of the same generation.
And please don't ask me if I would be comfortable with a 19 year old having sex with a 10 year old. Now we are talking about sex with a child. For those who don't know the differance between 10 and 14, read about puberty.
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01/15/2005 05:44:25 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
...Women associate an emotional connection with sex while men just like to have orgasms.... |
What utter nonsense!
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01/15/2005 06:00:57 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
Rape: Act of violence in wich a man imposes sexual intercourse with penatration on another person, against that person's will. |
The problem with this definition is that it uses the words “against that person's will", as opposed to consent, or choice. If the victim was asleep or drugged at the time of the act, while it would be clear that they had not chosen to participate in sex, it could be said that it was not “against their will ". This has been the defense of the frat boy gang bang rapist more than once. It assumes that a lack of ability by the victim to inform the rapist that they choose not to participate is the same as consent. It is not.
This is relevant in the case of the female teacher in that she has asked for the consent of a child who is below the age of consent. He isn't allowed to choose if he wants to drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, fight in the military or get married. Actions that might cause you harm, can only be entered into by those who are able to consent. A case a few years ago jailed several boys who were having sex with a mentally retarded girl who allowed them to have sex with her over a period of months. They went to jail because they knew damn well that the girl was incapable of giving informed consent, and if you think a fourteen year old boy with a half naked woman astride him has enough brain cells working to be able to make ANY rational decision, I would say you don't remember being that age very well.
How about a joke to put a twist on the argument.
A boy comes home from school and his mother asks him what he did in school today. "I had sex with my teacher!" the boy relied. "YOU WHAT?" the mother screamed. "You just wait until your father gets home, young man! Now get upstairs to your room!" Later that evening the father comes home and is told about his sons escapades at school that day. He goes into his son̢۪s room and puts his arm around the boy. "Son", he says, "I suppose I should be mad at you but I just can't help but be proud of you. I mean, what I wouldn't have given to do that at your age! In fact, I'm so proud I'm going to buy you a new bike! How's that?" The boy replies, "Gee, thanks anyway Dad but my ass is still kind of sore from school."
Would that still be OK?
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01/15/2005 06:03:30 PM · #83 |
the woman is a pedaphlie. yes she raped the kid.
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01/15/2005 06:11:37 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
How about a joke to put a twist on the argument.
A boy comes home from school and his mother asks him what he did in school today. "I had sex with my teacher!" the boy relied. "YOU WHAT?" the mother screamed. "You just wait until your father gets home, young man! Now get upstairs to your room!" Later that evening the father comes home and is told about his sons escapades at school that day. He goes into his son̢۪s room and puts his arm around the boy. "Son", he says, "I suppose I should be mad at you but I just can't help but be proud of you. I mean, what I wouldn't have given to do that at your age! In fact, I'm so proud I'm going to buy you a new bike! How's that?" The boy replies, "Gee, thanks anyway Dad but my ass is still kind of sore from school."
Would that still be OK? |
I would say you are using homosexuality to interfere in a debate that has nothing to do with it?
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01/15/2005 06:14:50 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
Originally posted by _Armadildo_:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by thewriterside:
And yes, a 14 year old does have the abiltiy to consent. |
Not legally. |
Depends in what country... Legal age for sex has been abolished in Canada a few years back... |
Huh? What books are you reading? Consent from a 14 year old doesn't give any adult the right to have sex with him/her in Canada. |
There is a legal age for consent in Canada. I suggest you read the Criminal Code to assist you if you are having trouble understanding the criminal laws in Canada. Anyone under the age of 14 cannot consent. And even then, there are issues with age differences. a 14 and a 15yr old having sex is likely going to be ok, but not so with anyone over the age of 19.
Here is a starting point for anyone in Canada who thinks that you can have sex with anyone under the age of 14 and they can consent to that activity. Its a link to the Criminal Code, sexual offences section: //laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/42053.html
Message edited by author 2005-01-15 18:32:35.
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01/15/2005 06:48:15 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
I would say you are using homosexuality to interfere in a debate that has nothing to do with it? |
It is tough to break down a joke semiotically, but here goes. The humor lies in the fact that the father's willingness to reward the boy rather than punish him is due to the fact that the father envies the boy's siuation, i.e. sex with female teacher. The punch line reverses the situation when the father is now faced with a very different situation than he had assumed. Perhaps the boy is gay and wanted the relationship, but now daddy realised he is too young to have sex, while before it was all nudge nudge wink wink. Father no longer envies boy.
If you don't see how the situation would loose some of the subtelty of it's shadings by the teacher being a gay man as opposed to a straight woman, then you missed the joke. If the teacher was a gay man and the boy had consented would you still think it was alright? To my mind the situation has to do with an abuse of power by the teacher, and if you think that it would be wrong for the boy to be coerced into gay sex but not straight sex how can you justify that? That is the point of the joke, if the sex involved is nothing that would appeal to you, then " lucky boy" turns into "poor victim".
Bringing the different reactions that heterosexualty and homosexuality into the situation exposes the difference between sexual fantasy and abuse of power. |
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01/15/2005 06:48:43 PM · #87 |
and i cannot hold my tongue any longer on how I find many of the opinions expressed in this thread to be themost discriminatory thoughts and ideas expressed against men i have ever had the misfortune to know existed. If people said such things about women, it would be an outrage and a legal battle.
Men CAN AND DO invest emotionally in sex, they are capable of being sexually assaulted and to simple ascribe hormones and a penis to them is to rape them of any sort of a emotional or intellectual soul they may possess. Its disgraceful and extremely disappointing.
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01/15/2005 06:55:15 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by frisca:
and i cannot hold my tongue any longer on how I find many of the opinions expressed in this thread to be themost discriminatory thoughts and ideas expressed against men i have ever had the misfortune to know existed. If people said such things about women, it would be an outrage and a legal battle.
Men CAN AND DO invest emotionally in sex, they are capable of being sexually assaulted and to simple ascribe hormones and a penis to them is to rape them of any sort of a emotional or intellectual soul they may possess. Its disgraceful and extremely disappointing. |
Well said. Men (and 14 year old boys, whether or not puberty has completed) have psychological and emotional motivators for sex, just as women do. To narrow the focus down to hormones is simply an injustice to men as human beings.
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01/15/2005 06:57:37 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by frisca:
and i cannot hold my tongue any longer on how I find many of the opinions expressed in this thread to be themost discriminatory thoughts and ideas expressed against men i have ever had the misfortune to know existed. If people said such things about women, it would be an outrage and a legal battle.
Men CAN AND DO invest emotionally in sex, they are capable of being sexually assaulted and to simple ascribe hormones and a penis to them is to rape them of any sort of a emotional or intellectual soul they may possess. Its disgraceful and extremely disappointing. |
I totally agree with what you're saying. Men can be sexually assaulted. But there are natural reactions that occurs when a man is willing to have sex (and the biological reactions are governed by psychological/emotional state). Such reactions would not occur in a situation where a man is not willing to have sex.
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01/15/2005 06:59:45 PM · #90 |
I wish my teachers looked like that when I was 14 lol.
I think I would have said yes if she looked like that, even if I didnt think about sex at 14 lol.
At 14, I was too busy playing football, baseball, etc. I still hated girls, and didnt think about sex. Todays children are different though, theres much more sex in the real world now thats readily available. How old was the teacher anyway?
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01/15/2005 07:01:08 PM · #91 |
I agree with laurie , a child is a child , how would like it if some woman took advantage of your 14 yr old son don't take the childhood away from the child
Message edited by author 2005-01-15 19:02:25. |
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01/15/2005 07:23:14 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by TLL061:
I agree with laurie , a child is a child , how would like it if some woman took advantage of your 14 yr old son don't take the childhood away from the child |
Childhood at 14? Most 14 wants to leave childhood. 14 year olds want to have sex. And at 14, I'm sorry but they are not child. In a mother's eye, men will always be their little innocent boy.
Can we please stop reffering to 14 year olds as child? Is puberty science-fiction to some people?
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01/15/2005 07:26:08 PM · #93 |
| I guess you don't have children , |
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01/15/2005 07:27:13 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by TLL061:
I guess you don't have children , |
I don't. That's why I can be rational about the subject.
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01/15/2005 07:30:08 PM · #95 |
| even if these kids ack like they do , they will still run back to there mommies and dadies like little kids do , most of them are acting tough but there not . |
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01/15/2005 07:33:59 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by TLL061:
even if these kids ack like they do , they will still run back to there mommies and dadies like little kids do , most of them are acting tough but there not . |
I'm 30 and I still run back to my mom like a little kid does sometimes. There are no ages for feeling hurt. Does that mean if a woman hurts me emotionnaly, that she should go to jail for it? No.
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01/15/2005 07:35:20 PM · #97 |
| 14 years old dude , 14 not 30 |
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01/15/2005 07:37:16 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by TLL061:
14 years old dude , 14 not 30 |
Ok, so let's start treating 14 year olds more like 5 year olds. That's a great way to let them learn about adult life.
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01/15/2005 07:39:07 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
Originally posted by TLL061:
even if these kids ack like they do , they will still run back to there mommies and dadies like little kids do , most of them are acting tough but there not . |
I'm 30 and I still run back to my mom like a little kid does sometimes. There are no ages for feeling hurt. Does that mean if a woman hurts me emotionnaly, that she should go to jail for it? No. |
Yes she should, if you were hurt physically or emotionally while still under the legal age of consent for your state. And in many parts of the world, and as far as I can tell through the various sites I've researched and my years of training, the United States as a whole, 14 is still considered a child. Puberty does not make someone a legal adult.
I have a student in my parenting teen program who was 11 when she gave birth to her son. She had already been through puberty, so I guess that made it OK for her to have sex with someone and have his baby, according to your logic.
To think of a 14 year old as not being a child anymore simply because of the fact that his voice has changed and he has hair on his testicles is a gross error in judgment.
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01/15/2005 07:41:48 PM · #100 |
| you just don't get it , so is it ok to have sex with a 14 yr old girl ? |
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