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01/09/2005 01:38:09 PM · #1 |
There are a number of people who have been stating that taken large numbers of photos diminishes the quality of the photos taken. They have said that a wedding photographer who take large numbers of photos is taking snap shots.
To these people I would suggest that they look at the people who are at the top of the game and ask how many photographs they are taking. National geographic will use between 300 to 400 rolls of film for a simple story, more then 1000 rolls for a more complex story, that is more then 36,000 photos for one story.
One of the delights of a modern digital camera is that you can afford to shot like the pros. My Wifeâs 20D is a delight to use, it would be crazy to have a camera that can take pictures like this and only take a handful of what you hope will turn out.
When photographing people the expressions and interactions change so fast that you have to shoot a ton of photos to get those few really great ones.
Taking a lot of photos is not new to digital photography, it has been around for years, what is new is that the common person can now afford to it as well.
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01/09/2005 01:49:20 PM · #2 |
True!
There is a saying that goes: The amateur shoots sparingly, the Professional shoots 100 times more...
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01/09/2005 01:57:03 PM · #3 |
Something useful I picked up from a National Geographic photographer was the way they use those 400+ rolls of film. He described the process as sketching out the ideas for a photograph. He'd shoot and shoot, just so that he was narrowing in on the idea he was trying to achieve. As he worked he came closer to the shot he actually wanted to take.
Sure occasionally there are great 'one off' shots, but the majority of good seeing isn't 100% inspiration and luck. (just the usual genius is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration) Work, refinement, exploration are a great process to get to good images.
You can also do all this without clicking the shutter and 'wasting' those initial shots. Digital gives the advantage of actually being able to look at those intermediate shots on the way along too.
Then of course there's shooting dynamic subjects - light, people, animals, were spilt second changes can make all the difference - more shots give you more chances of getting those 'lucky' shots - but luck always increases with more effort and talent. Knowing when to start and stop shooting also helps too! (for the disciples of the 'decisive moment' Bresson shot roll upon roll of images to get one or two decisive moments too - good prediction, seeing, timing and lots of exposures)
I've had to get up at 3am, drive for an hour, walk 5 miles and shoot 200+ images for a shot that people tell me how lucky I was to happen to get the right light/ confluence of clouds, weather, light, location etc.
Luck favours the prepared.
Message edited by author 2005-01-09 14:00:41.
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01/09/2005 02:06:48 PM · #4 |
Great point, Gordon, about 'narrowing in on the idea...'
If I see an incredible street scene happening in front of me, the first thing I would do is grab my camera and start snapping and continue to narrow in on what I'm going for...if the scene ends or my opportunity is gone, I at least have some context shots.
Ideally, I'll have had the time and skill to eventually get the exact shot I'm looking for, but it would be silly to not take any photographs until I get to that point.
I mean, we're not talking about large format landscape photos here...
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01/09/2005 02:54:09 PM · #5 |
I remember when I was working in a film lab in LA, we'd have guys come in who shoot location stuff for catalogs bring in 400 rolls of film, for maybe two or three dozen shots in a catalog.
Another guy who shot travel stock photography would bring in similar amounts of film from a month long trip. |
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01/09/2005 03:30:01 PM · #6 |
For working professionals, I'm sure taking lots of photos is a must - but there is also value to slowing down and thinking about each shot. Deliberately choose an f-stop and shutter speed and iso, zoom, whatever. Definately liberal braketing but unless you have thought behind your actions, your "keepers" are just going to be lucky shots.
People at the top of the field, who make their livings at photography do not depend on luck.
Message edited by author 2005-01-09 15:35:51. |
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01/09/2005 03:56:05 PM · #7 |
No, you're right they don't depend on luck. You still have to have the "eye" and skill level. I'd say if you gave someone with no photographic skill whatsoever a camera and let them shoot 100 rolls, they still might come away with nothing. Shooting that much film / digital is almost like buying insurance. You might not need them, but if National Geographic is flipping the developing bill, why not?
Chances are they have so many "Keepers", the difference between one shot and another is almost indistinguishable. But sometimes the difference between a gem and a good photo is really something small that happens in an instant. Why not shoot?
Now of course, that's for 35mm / digital shots. No one is doing this with an 8x10 view camera, and for those guys that can take 5 shots in a day and walk away with a gallery quality photo, I have a lot of respect for that skill level. |
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01/09/2005 08:31:42 PM · #8 |
ah yes...thank you for this post. :) When working for newspapers, I shot a ton of film...all for just one shot that would go to press. Its my habit to shoot tons when dealing with action and candids such as weddings. Im always trying to capture the expression..but that doesnt mean my timing will be perfect every time..it also doesnt mean someone wont blink or another person wont walk in front of the lens or that my damn auto focus didnt quite focus or that my timing was off. When working with portraits, I still like to shoot a ton because its warm up for finding a groove and an angle. I have to work the angles and try a few shots and keep going until I come up with something I like. I dont have a recipe for poses...I find my flow. That takes many shots and playing and warming up. With shots for challenge entries, such as the new years resolution, I took maybe 8 frames. Every situation is different. If you know exactly what you want then its easy to shoot fewer images. If your watching the story unfold and you want to capture it, it takes lots and lots of shots. If your looking for a creative angle or getting lost in experimenting with poses and expressions...it takes many many shots to get there. Not only that, but I like to keep going and going because you never know what you might find next. Its a journey and adventure in seeing.
I always think about my camera settings....always adjusting and experimenting with light, movement and dof. How can you learn what works if you dont experiment? Its digital..we can afford to play now! |
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01/09/2005 08:41:08 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by grigrigirl:
ah yes...thank you for this post. :) When working for newspapers, I shot a ton of film...all for just one shot that would go to press. Its my habit to shoot tons when dealing with action and candids such as weddings. Im always trying to capture the expression..but that doesnt mean my timing will be perfect every time..it also doesnt mean someone wont blink or another person wont walk in front of the lens or that my damn auto focus didnt quite focus or that my timing was off. When working with portraits, I still like to shoot a ton because its warm up for finding a groove and an angle. I have to work the angles and try a few shots and keep going until I come up with something I like. I dont have a recipe for poses...I find my flow. That takes many shots and playing and warming up. With shots for challenge entries, such as the new years resolution, I took maybe 8 frames. Every situation is different. If you know exactly what you want then its easy to shoot fewer images. If your watching the story unfold and you want to capture it, it takes lots and lots of shots. If your looking for a creative angle or getting lost in experimenting with poses and expressions...it takes many many shots to get there. Not only that, but I like to keep going and going because you never know what you might find next. Its a journey and adventure in seeing.
I always think about my camera settings....always adjusting and experimenting with light, movement and dof. How can you learn what works if you dont experiment? Its digital..we can afford to play now! |
Couldn't have said it better myself (he, he, now that's really true). I feel like quoting Popeye here, "I'm a mother myself."
But seriously, WELL SAID! |
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01/09/2005 11:27:36 PM · #10 |
I forget what photographer said it: "When it comes to photography, it is not your batting average that counts, only the home runs."
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01/09/2005 11:34:48 PM · #11 |
What I wanna know is, how many of those shots that aren't "keepers" do you actually throw away? I have a hard time doing that, because later when I have more experience I think I might see a better crop, be able to process it better, whatever. More likely I'll look back and think "what the heck was I doing?!"
Do you keep all your shots?
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01/09/2005 11:57:56 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by ahaze:
What I wanna know is, how many of those shots that aren't "keepers" do you actually throw away? I have a hard time doing that, because later when I have more experience I think I might see a better crop, be able to process it better, whatever. More likely I'll look back and think "what the heck was I doing?!"
Do you keep all your shots? |
Later when you are better I would hope you are spending your time taking new shots instead of sifting through recorded memories of when you did shoot with abandon. Of course, if the shot is of a personal nature, or one that is not going to come around again, it is best to keep them. But why keep what you don't see as useful at the moment, on the hope you will see something in it later?
Improvement comes from building upon success, not failure. The shots that didn't work are failures, at least in part, reviewing them won't help you get better -- if you have recognized they aren't good, you know what they have to show you.
The trick I think is to not get discontent with the successes of the past; as improvement comes and you see more and more flaws in what you saw as good before.
To directly answer you question, unless it is for personal reasons (pictures of my family and such) I erase any exposure I don't like.
David
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01/09/2005 11:58:48 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by ahaze:
What I wanna know is, how many of those shots that aren't "keepers" do you actually throw away? I have a hard time doing that, because later when I have more experience I think I might see a better crop, be able to process it better, whatever. More likely I'll look back and think "what the heck was I doing?!"
Do you keep all your shots? |
Yes : ) |
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01/10/2005 12:05:50 AM · #14 |
Thankyou for starting this one boy I thought I was crazy the last 2 days On the bokeh challenge I filled up my memory card 3 different times before I finally had to turn it in. I got 65 shots of the same subject each time. I changed settings moved around played with the light. Geez My kids were going nuts cause I wasnt stopping till I had it. :) I cant imagine going back to the film days and doing that I couldnt afford it and then you have to do the dark room thing to load up film if you get it by the roll. I love technology!
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01/10/2005 12:13:38 AM · #15 |
ClubJuggle said this to me tonight, "Being a good photographer is mostly luck. Being a great photographer is knowing how to make the most of your luck." The more you take the more you increase your chance for that one "lucky" shot
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01/10/2005 12:39:14 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by joebok:
For working professionals, I'm sure taking lots of photos is a must - but there is also value to slowing down and thinking about each shot. Deliberately choose an f-stop and shutter speed and iso, zoom, whatever. Definately liberal braketing but unless you have thought behind your actions, your "keepers" are just going to be lucky shots.
People at the top of the field, who make their livings at photography do not depend on luck. |
It doesn't mean it's luck. What if you think about each shot while deliberately chooseing an f-stop and shutter speed and iso, and zoom, and still take a lot of photos? This has nothing to do with luck and everything to do with personal style. There is no right or wrong on this. Anyone who wishes to dictate what is is welcome to pay for my next camera. |
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01/10/2005 12:48:53 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by ahaze:
What I wanna know is, how many of those shots that aren't "keepers" do you actually throw away? I have a hard time doing that, because later when I have more experience I think I might see a better crop, be able to process it better, whatever. More likely I'll look back and think "what the heck was I doing?!"
Do you keep all your shots? |
When I go out and shoot I may fill a CF card in less then a half hour. When I get to my computer at the end of the day I might have 4 one gig cf cards full. No is the answer. I keep only the best of what I shoot. That may be 4 or 40 images out of 400. Rarely more.
You don't judge a photographer on how many shots it took to get the image, but on what the final image looks like. |
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01/10/2005 01:04:59 AM · #18 |
With regards to saving photos, I archive everything that comes off the camera onto DVD, this is done before any editing is done at all. At the cost of DVD this is very little expense in doing this.
I always know what my camera setting are when I am shooting. I also mostly shoot in full manual mode, on my camera it is just easier.
I also will use auto-bracketing for the exposure when there is a lot of dynamic range in the scene. Using auto-bracketing is a great tool for learning, if the center exposure is the one that I like then I know I am doing well.
There are once in a lifetime events, like weddings, I would hope that the people photographing these once in a lifetime events would not be stingy on the shutter button. That they would not get so full of their own egos that they would believe that every time they pushed the shutter button they were getting a âkeeperâ
I was the only person photographing the Molokai Hoe race for our team, this is for some a once in a lifetime open ocean canoe race, I took over 400 photos during the race. Of these 400 I printed about 20 8x10, printed contact sheets for the rest and gave each of the team members a CD with around 200 photos on them. I can tell you not one of the people on the team thought I took too many photos.
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01/10/2005 01:29:25 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by ahaze:
What I wanna know is, how many of those shots that aren't "keepers" do you actually throw away? I have a hard time doing that, because later when I have more experience I think I might see a better crop, be able to process it better, whatever. More likely I'll look back and think "what the heck was I doing?!"
Do you keep all your shots? |
this is another aspect of the beauty of digital--you dont have to throw anything away! when i come home from a shoot--i have a habit of quickly running through the cf cards in acdsee (or whatever) and jotting down the numbers that i think have potential into a notebook--mainly to save time later. then i burn these sessions to a disk, labled and filed away.
i don't like to delete anything, because you never know what gems you may miss based on your current mindset--as in--maybe i was looking for something else in the shoot--and overlooked something potentially better. especially when shooting people--you get so caught up in the moment, that you are just snapping constantly and some great moments might escape you, if they aren't what you are specifically looking for.
Message edited by author 2005-01-10 08:49:29. |
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