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12/31/2004 11:08:59 AM · #26 |
In that instance I would put on my Che Guevara shirt on and go shoot the same site again. Resist Oppression!
On a less militant note. That happened to me once while taking pictures of a fountain where kids play at. I reacted very nicely to the worried mother and in turn got to sell my picture to her later when it was developed.
keep on shooting! |
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12/31/2004 11:16:25 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by deapee:
It was at Bill Green shopping center at the location of a new Walgreens. It's right off RT. 51 about 2 miles north of century III mall in Pleasant Hills. |
That's right at the intersection of Rt.51 and 885, right? |
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12/31/2004 11:22:52 AM · #28 |
885 doesn't cross with 51...it's the intersection of RT. 51 and curry hollow road (which leads to 885). It's the shopping center by 'the cloverleaf' and UHAUL.
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12/31/2004 12:01:45 PM · #29 |
| Wow... hopefully it's just someone reading too much into the situation. However one thing stood out in my head... this was because you were taking pictures of a Walgreens being constructed? Not like a picture taken of one of those wouldn't look like 6000 other walgreens being built across the US. They're spreading almost as fast as Starbucks. Hopefully the officers apologized to you for the trouble. You may want to send in a letter to your local government explaining this situation. While I think that a formal complaint, or lawyers is a bit too far for the situation, the people above this officer may want to hear about it. |
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12/31/2004 12:07:14 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Corwyn:
Originally posted by Morgan:
Originally posted by Jacko:
What he said
Originally posted by doctornick:
Glad I live in Canada... |
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DITTO |
Did we mention Canada Rules!! |
Another smiling canuck here...I sympathize with you. It must be frustrating for you guys...
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12/31/2004 12:09:44 PM · #31 |
I dont' know, I sent my story to the local paper. If they're interested, maybe they'll send a person or two out there...who knows.
Oh, and I didn't get an apology -- maybe that would have made things feel better on my end. I can understand people have to be cautious, and it's a public place so you can approach anyone...but you don't have the right to demand someone's identity or demand to know why they're there taking pictures.
If I was a terrorist, I'd probably either take some from my vehicle so I could leave really quick if I was spotted, or set up across the street with a 400mm lense or something.
--
I am sorry for all those who lost someone in 9/11 -- and I'm just as proud as the next person to be an American (possibly more so at times). But to use that as an excuse to detain and interrogate someone is just plain stupid.
I understand people have to be cautious, but it's wrong that I'm continually asked to surrender my identification and am continually interrogated by the police. I have never been disrespectful to an officer or to any original person who started any conflict that arose from my photography. It's a shame.
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12/31/2004 12:12:25 PM · #32 |
Check out this article/story and the following discussion from Photo.Net which includes this post by Bert Kraggs:
"Bert Krages , sep 13, 2003; 03:09 p.m.
The Patriot Act expanded the powers of the government to seize materials (e.g., library and bookstore records) and detain persons suspected of terrorism and clandestine intelligence pursuant to a warrant but did not expand the power of law enforcement personnel to stop, question, or arrest people in the absence of a warrant. Police and security officers do not have the right to detain persons against their wills or to seize their property if they do not have probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed."
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12/31/2004 12:12:53 PM · #33 |
Would using the term "freelance photographer" help, if you explained that you were taking photos for your portfolio?
It might sound better and more professional/believable than "I'm taking them for enjoyment"...I dunno...
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12/31/2004 12:17:15 PM · #34 |
Re: Photography IN the mall, that's private property and they are within their rights to prohibit photography there. There's a privacy issue, basically. A lot of ways it comes into play.
The construction foreman LEAVING the site to keep you from shooting from a public place is way out of line though.
Robt.
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12/31/2004 12:17:48 PM · #35 |
| I think the right response to something like this is to rally as many photographers in the area as you can and go to the same spot and have a photo shoot festival. This might get people to not jump so fast to harass photographers who are taking photos legally |
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12/31/2004 12:22:52 PM · #36 |
wow good story in that link.
I am sure that the reason things only went as far as they did was because of my non-confrontational standards. Had I (within my rights, mind you) only surrendered my license and not said anything else except that if they wanted answers they'd have to talk to my lawyer, there is no saying what would have happened.
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12/31/2004 12:23:59 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Mark of SRQ:
And if a terrorist or insurance adjuster, or any other "suspisious" person was taking photos of the building, they would probably try to be more discreet about it somehow. You wouldn't think they would do it right out in the open with a big honking D rebel. |
Yea, and I highly doubt they would use their cell phone to call the police. What kind of 'terrorist' does that??
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12/31/2004 12:24:34 PM · #38 |
Perhaps the foreman was doing something illegal - OSHA vioaltions or union swork rule issues or some incidient in his pas has made him paranoid.
On the other hand, perhaps you dress suspiciuosly? Some folks look like they are up to no good no matter what. I am one of the lucky ones - i seem to be able to get away with things under these circumstances.
i am more like mike (lykofos). I'll give em hell and prolly end up in jail. Better for the lawsuit that way!
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12/31/2004 12:31:00 PM · #39 |
I hear you -- I was wearing jeans and a jacket. I have a bald head and a goatee...I'm like 5'10" and 190 pounds -- I don't think I look 'suspicious'. I don't think I look intimidating or anything like that -- I've never scared anyone with my presence. Kids seem to take a liking to me from the get go, so I don't think I'm scary looking. I'd say I'm quite normal looking to be honest.
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12/31/2004 12:36:23 PM · #40 |
I travel to the US with a big-ass lens all the time, and never get hassled - even in NYC (where you'd think it would have been the worst). I got asked once, and i just told him i was a Canadian :)
I'll get you all fake Canadian IDs, then you too can take pictures all over your own beautiful Country :D
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12/31/2004 12:41:54 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by deapee:
Should I do anything about this or just stop taking pictures of things that might seem 'suspicious'? |
Next time something like this happens, don't tell them you are doing it for personal enjoyment. Tell them you are a freelance photographer on assignment. After they detain you and slow your 'progress', you can invoice them for the time you were held up. If you do this, you MUST know exactly what your rights are. Since you were working from a public sidewalk, no one should have been able to hassle or detain you for any reason.
At any rate, I would do the following:
1. Write a letter to the chief of police telling him what happened.
2. Include a copy of this document in your letter:
//www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf
Maybe the chief of police will take it upon himself to inform his patrol officers what they actually can and can not do to a photographer.
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12/31/2004 12:45:12 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by deapee:
Should I do anything about this or just stop taking pictures of things that might seem 'suspicious'? |
Next time something like this happens, don't tell them you are doing it for personal enjoyment. Tell them you are a freelance photographer on assignment. After they detain you and slow your 'progress', you can invoice them for the time you were held up. If you do this, you MUST know exactly what your rights are. Since you were working from a public sidewalk, no one should have been able to hassle or detain you for any reason.
At any rate, I would do the following:
1. Write a letter to the chief of police telling him what happened.
2. Include a copy of this document in your letter:
//www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf
Maybe the chief of police will take it upon himself to inform his patrol officers what they actually can and can not do to a photographer. |
That's a good idea -- I'm going to definately email that to the chief in the boro. I've already contacted the newspaper and the PA senate (not sure if that will do any good).
The fact of the matter here is that if this happens to you, it is your duty to make this sort of thing publicly known. Tell everyone who you think will or will not care if they can make any difference at all. If you just set down your camera and never bring it up (which I felt like doing), then you're doing an injustice to the photography community.
I don't mean to sound like some protestor, or anything like that, but my voice will be heard.
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12/31/2004 12:52:12 PM · #43 |
The patriot act does come into play in this scenario though. However, the local law enforcement people and other people who may stop you from what you are doing need to learn how to handle these situations. If a construction site is of a critical nature and they don't want photos being made of the site, they need to post NO PHOTOGRAPHY signs or something. Even if they do this, it won't revoke your legal freedom to make photos from a public place. But it will let you know that they do not want photos being made and let you decide what to do about it.
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12/31/2004 12:55:48 PM · #44 |
I have a few things to add
a) I think it's ironic how they shake you down for taking pictures, but how many people are shaken down like that when they apply for pilot schooling?
b) I thought a construction site fell under the 'private property' type scenario. While I disagree at how they handled the situation, you should always ask permission before photographing anything that isn't yours or mother nature's.
c) technically American police can 'detain' you. For those unfamiliar with this,, police are legally allowed to hold you up to 48 hours without charging you with a crime.
d) we would all feel really stupid if 9/11 happened again because they quit being 'vigilant'. While its a serious inconvienience to be shaken down by rent-a-cops, or even true blue collar tweekers, it would less of a convienience seeing another 3000 people die for no reason.
e) make a photo card with photo shop, take it to kinko's (copy place) and have them laminate it. wear it around your neck. When I was in Germany the february after 9/11 we had to wear our ID's around our neck. We had to have our car searched everytime we entered a base. You had to submit to personal searches any time asked.. Refusal could mean deportation back to the US. Now that's inconvienient if you want to get right down to it. I think art is worth that squeeze. Who cares if they don't understand what your doing, unless it's a cop don't worry about it. And even then, they are only trying to get to the bottom of someone elses concern (except in your case where you actually called them:S)
joe
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12/31/2004 12:57:49 PM · #45 |
The ID badge is a great idea... I'll see if I can post mine here in a few minutes....
This is a homemade press ID badge. When I started working for the newspaper, I went with the head photographer to the police department to have an official ID badge made. The person who makes the badges was not available that day, so the head photographer scanned his badge for me and told me to duplicate it as best I could with photoshop. My duplication is almost exact with one thing missing. These press ID badges are normally signed by the chief of police and I don't have that signature on mine. I did laminate it in a luggage tag lamination and I wear it on a lanyard around my neck when I'm shooting for the paper. With this ID, I have never been given any trouble by anyone for any reason.
Message edited by author 2004-12-31 13:03:20.
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12/31/2004 01:02:54 PM · #46 |
I would definitely like to see some of these fake (read: homemade) ID cards...
I could see them coming in handy for other things as well, particularily journalistic opportunities at accident/crime scenes...
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12/31/2004 01:04:35 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I would definitely like to see some of these fake (read: homemade) ID cards...
I could see them coming in handy for other things as well, particularily journalistic opportunities at accident/crime scenes... |
You need to make one that says 'Freelance Photographer' or something like that. You don't want to get in trouble for having an illegal ID.
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12/31/2004 01:08:09 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I would definitely like to see some of these fake (read: homemade) ID cards...
I could see them coming in handy for other things as well, particularily journalistic opportunities at accident/crime scenes... |
You need to make one that says 'Freelance Photographer' or something like that. You don't want to get in trouble for having an illegal ID. |
Yeah, I know!
I wasn't going to stick Associated Press or Canadian Press on there or anything! Aah, what the hell, I'm from National Geographic!
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12/31/2004 01:08:32 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
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When you get nervous, do you sniff your fingers? :P |
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12/31/2004 01:13:57 PM · #50 |
Nice...instead of Press should I just put Photographer with "freelance" in tiny font above it?
Also, if you have a minute John there are a few dreamers in the "getting into the field" thread that could use your advice!
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