Need help with pricing! - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

12/09/2004 07:38:05 AM · #1

Hi everyone,
I really need help with a quote for some photography work...
I've approached a college which teaches pop music amongst other things, and some of the pupils are putting on a gig with bands that they've formed. The lecturer in charge is interested in my services, but I need to give him a price. It's a relationship I'd like to build up, as there are LOADS of performances throughout the year.
I don't want to scare them off, so I thought I would say that I would turn up and take the photos for free... they would then buy what they thought was worth it. It's a little risky for me, but then I don't have a huge amount of experience (my experience consists of a few gigs where I got very good shots), so it would take the pressure off and not make me feel awful if I got crap shots.
What would be a good pricing strategy once the gig was over?
Obviously I would need to decide how much to charge for different sized prints, but would I need a different price to sell the full-res file or negative? How much would you sell prints or files for?

I'm getting to a stage where I really need to have a pricing strategy in place, as I'm also looking to target some of the professional musicians I've captured. Obviously I'd charge them more than some schoolkids at college!

All help will be appreciated,

cheers,

Bob

colda

Nikon D800

12/09/2004 07:57:45 AM · #2

Hi Bob,

I'm looking to go semi-professional myself in the new year, so I too am interested in the responses you get in this thread.

I will be looking to portraits as a starter (I've had a couple of enquiries) and continue with magazine work. The magazine work is easy as there is a fixed pricing structure, as for the portait work I'll find a local company that can do all my printing and then decide on a markup for the various packages. This is much easier that your situation as market research if easy to perform in my case. I have no idea how I will handle any diverse requests though.

I think that it's important that you do NOT do it for free, this will only result in you either devaluing your services (in the eyes of your client) or create a situation where charging in the future will create ill-feeling.

As for how much to charge - sorry, I don't have a clue :(

Darren

Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC for Canon

12/09/2004 07:59:20 AM · #3

Originally posted by colda:

Thanks,
just to make clear though, they wouldn't actually get anything for free.. I'm just thinking of turning up and taking the photos for free. If they want them, they pay.

moswyn

Canon EOS-7D

12/09/2004 08:01:42 AM · #4

I don't know about your area, but this pricing structure (for non-commercial/non-wedding work) seems to work well for me:
4x6 - $4
5x7 - $6
8x10 - $10
11x14 - $25
Digital images - $10 ea.
CD of all images - $100
I charge $20/hr. to shoot events where I don't think I'll sell many prints (birthday party), and nothing to shoot public events where I think I'll do okay (school sports, school concerts).

Hope this helps give you some ideas for your own pricing!

Message edited by author 2004-12-09 08:02:49.

Nikon D200

12/09/2004 08:20:49 AM · #5

I'm not a professional photographer, but from a pure finance persepctive I offer the following: First calculate your time budget - include time spent actually shooting and the amount of time you expect to spend post-processing. Then calculate a desired rate of return - for x hours of work I'd like to see y dollars of return. Then estimate your costs of producing (via CD, hi-res, actual prints in different sizes) and do some quotes for packages that meet your desired rate of return. Moswyn gave you some good price points to play with. The client can then choose which package they'd like. You can charge a flat minimum fee to be paid up-front which includes a set number of prints, with additional prints adding to your profit. If you set your minimum fee low to compensate for your confidence, be sure to label it an "introductory" or "educational discount" price so that you aren't devaluing your services for other clients and situations. I would imagine that you would also want to include some language in your deal to cover the fact that you'll likely want to keep and use some of the images in your portfolio for sale to other parties.

12/09/2004 09:13:30 AM · #6

Thanks, I'll bear all that in mind.
Does anyone else have examples of what they charge?
What about different pricing structures for professional musicians vs. local college students?
Cheers,
Bob

Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC for Canon

12/09/2004 09:14:39 AM · #7

Oh yeah, would anyone by a miraculous chance happen to know the going rate that pro musicians pay for photos, etc?

moswyn

Canon EOS-7D

12/09/2004 11:40:46 AM · #8

Depending on how large I feel the venture is going to be, I'll bump my commercial fee up to $50 an hour plus prints/images. If it's really big, I'll charge more for the CD of images too. You really can just make stuff up as you go along, just as long as you try to stay relatively consistent. :)

edited to add: Generally I've found that whatever I think is a fair price is a lot less than what my clients expected.

Message edited by author 2004-12-09 11:42:20.

Prof_Fate

12/09/2004 12:50:07 PM · #9

Consider these points also - the rights to the pics - does the school or whatever get to use them in future ads or yearbook, etc? Kids these days can take a 5x7 and scan the sucker and away it goes...

Laurie has the right idea - how much time vs how much income. Auto mechanics get $10-15 an hour around here and have more invested in tools and shcooling etc than you have in photography (guessing from your comments on that). BUT the repair shop charges $70 an hour to cover consumeables, overhead, advertising, etc, etc. So if you want to make $20 an hour for your time, you need to charge $30 or $40 to cover the wear and tear on equipment, the future acquisition of equipment, the physical cost of your portfolio, etc, etc.

Call some of your competetition and see what they charge...pretend to be the teacher...or aspiring band member...

soup

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

12/09/2004 01:21:58 PM · #10

i wouldn't show up for free- but charge a flat rate ( tell them a discounted rate ) to cover the cost of your time, and the materials needed to produce the prints/cd's.

then figure your post processing time and any earnings toward equipment can be covered by the sale of the prints.

i think this would leave you looking more professional, and make for a better long term relationship from your perspective.

Free is a curse word in most cases - you can never make a cheap SOB happy.

ADGibson

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/13/2004 10:07:51 PM · #11

Originally posted by moswyn:

This is awesome moswyn. I have been going over this trying to figure out pricing and you have really put it in perspective.

Now I have some additional questions.

1. When doing prints. Do you print them on your home printer or taking them somewhere to have them done?

2. Would you try to keep a few of the choice pics to and get a model release to sell somewhere else?

ADGibson

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

12/14/2004 08:02:15 AM · #12

bump

moswyn

Canon EOS-7D

Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC for Canon

12/14/2004 09:50:47 AM · #13

Originally posted by DoFear:

When doing on-site prints or small online orders, the pictures come out of my Canon i960 printers. For weddings, engagements, senior pics, and baby shots (basically, anything of higher sentimental value) I send out to Shutterfly. Currently I'm thinking of changing printers... I honestly like the quality of work Shutterfly does and their turnaround time, but they have a really bad habit of advertising for themselves on the back of anything I have printed...

Naturally I keep all of my pics on DVD and have contracts for the shots I am hired to do (engagements, weddings, seniors, babies) that basically says I can use their picture however I want to in the future: advertising, to sell, etc. I mention this to them at the time of signing, which is also when they pay their deposit/session fee. Generally, people don't care. I have had only two clients so far who did not want their pictures used in any other way, and for one commercial client who had an invention, I said I wouldn't publish anything until it was on the market.

For those pictures that I don't charge to do (though I am technically "working" for the group), like sports, school concerts, etc... Well, I really haven't had any thought of selling those. Most people don't want pictures of middle school wrestlers grappling and sweating all over each other, except for their parents. :) I suppose if I had a pic I did want to sell, though, I would make an effort to track the subject down by contacting their coach or band director, and then have them (their parents) sign a release. I figure most folks would be flattered if I wanted to use a pic of their kid for something. Honestly, I probably would refrain from mentioning that I specifically wanted to sell their pic, unless I thought a nice copy of the picture would do to repay them. People around here can be kind of greedy and I wouldn't necessarily have the funds to reimburse them monetarily.

Like I say, I pretty much just make stuff up as I go along. I might have my own business and technically be a "pro" in the regard that I get paid to take pictures, but I never went to school for this and I learn new stuff every day. I don't even think that the majority of my pictures are that strong. Heck, the majority of them (being sports) I never look at... just take them and then never see them again, except to notice if the color and lighting are okay. I've just done it now for a year, so I've figured out what shots to look for to please the parents. :)

Hope that helps! Anything else, just ask :)

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/14/2004 10:22:32 AM · #14

Hey BL,

To build up a relationship with people who potentially have little money, I think your initial idea of doing it on "good faith" so to speak (shooting for free and charging them for shots they like) isn't a bad one to START with. Kind of "the first one's free" attitude (hey, works for crack heads).

After that you really need a set price. You can absolutely have different pricing for different groups (I do). I generally charge $150 for close friends and for people who'd not be able to afford it otherwise (if I want the gig that is). I don't do prints, I just say for $150 you get a disc of 20 shots. Other than that, for normal jobs I charge $150-$200 an hour (same deal with the disc).

Just how I do it..I'm sure you'll figure out your own niche.