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06/16/2002 11:05:01 AM · #1 |
I've heard people on this board mention how they've recieved a critique to get closer to your subject or move the subject in one direction or the other and their cop out response is "I couldn't get close to the subject because I didn't have control of the situation". My response to them is, then don't submit the photo and look for something else to shoot. Some people are new at photography and didn't know they should do this in the first place and that's fine, live and learn, but for people who already know that but took the picture anyways and submitted it, its just a cop out response.
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06/16/2002 11:14:53 AM · #2 |
Hmmm... well. I don't understand what good it does anyone to judge their decisions that way. I got that comment a lot on my "Girl and Black Swan" photo, but I don't actually agree with it. I think there's a dominant paradigm here that if you can identify something as the 'subject' of a photo, it should fill up the picture. If there's no subject, just a landscape, you don't get that comment. I saw my photo as a landscape with two figures in it, although maybe my title lead people to look at the figures as subjects rather than the way I saw them. I'm terrible at titles.
I often comment on composition and framing, but I don't think there are many times when I've said someone should be closer to their subject. One that comes to mind was "Osha" in the Black and White challenge. I liked the inclusion of those trees, and the way the girl was in the midst of them rather than dominating the photo, but the way it was composed didn't strike me. It's one of those areas where if you're a bit open minded to the extra information you're being given in a photo, you might see something you didn't expect. |
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06/16/2002 11:58:18 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by chariot:
...their cop out response is "I couldn''t get close to the subject because I didn''t have control of the situation". My response to them is, then don''t submit the photo and look for something else to shoot...
I''ll never submit another photo unless I''m sure it will get straight 10s.
Seriously, the point of this site is to receive "constructive" criticism, not to post a gallery of perfect images for the viewer''s entertainment.
ALL of my photos will have flaws -- some of which I''m aware and some not. I''m counting on you (users) to point out the ones I don''t know about and suggest how to do a similar image better NEXT TIME, IF POSSIBLE.
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/16/2002 12:00:44 PM. |
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06/16/2002 12:09:23 PM · #4 |
I agree with this, we should try to do a little self editing, not just go out and snap a picture so we can be in the competition.
My first photo I really liked, but this weeks was not what I wanted, and I really shouldn't have wasted anyones time.
If I am not willing to put in the time to give it my best shot, why should 200 people take the time to view it and rate it, and perhaps leave comments?
Originally posted by chariot:
I've heard people on this board mention how they've recieved a critique to get closer to your subject or move the subject in one direction or the other and their cop out response is "I couldn't get close to the subject because I didn't have control of the situation". My response to them is, then don't submit the photo and look for something else to shoot. Some people are new at photography and didn't know they should do this in the first place and that's fine, live and learn, but for people who already know that but took the picture anyways and submitted it, its just a cop out response.
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06/16/2002 01:42:35 PM · #5 |
chariot, i know when i give such a critique, i hope that it is received as 'next time you're in a similar situation, try this.'
Originally posted by chariot:
I've heard people on this board mention how they've recieved a critique to get closer to your subject or move the subject in one direction or the other and their cop out response is "I couldn't get close to the subject because I didn't have control of the situation". My response to them is, then don't submit the photo and look for something else to shoot. Some people are new at photography and didn't know they should do this in the first place and that's fine, live and learn, but for people who already know that but took the picture anyways and submitted it, its just a cop out response.
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06/16/2002 08:58:01 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by chariot:
[i]...their cop out response is "I couldn''t get close to the subject because I didn''t have control of the situation". My response to them is, then don''t submit the photo and look for something else to shoot...
I''ll never submit another photo unless I''m sure it will get straight 10s.
Seriously, the point of this site is to receive "constructive" criticism, not to post a gallery of perfect images for the viewer''s entertainment.
ALL of my photos will have flaws -- some of which I''m aware and some not. I''m counting on you (users) to point out the ones I don''t know about and suggest how to do a similar image better NEXT TIME, IF POSSIBLE.[/i]
I'm not saying you should only post a 10 image. All I'm saying is, that if you know you have a certain problem with your image that you don't like, and you attribute it to a lack of control over a situation or a lack of a better camera then don't get upset if I make a comment about it. If you didn't like your image, then don't post it unless you are a masochist and you enjoy people telling you the same thing over and over again.
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06/16/2002 09:02:27 PM · #7 |
I completely understand, that's how I take it. My point is, if I take a picture of a bird and its only about 10% of the frame and I title it "Bird" i'm obviously gonna get some comments about filling the frame with the bird. I'm not gonna come back and say, "well I couldn't do that because I don't have a long enough telephoto lens". If someone gives me that response then I would say "then why the hell did you submit that photo?!" Take pictures of what you can with your equipment. If you only have a 100mm lens, then don't try and take pictures of eagles flying. If you don't have a macro lens don't try to take a picture of an tiny ant.
Ok so this was actually a little bit more than what my original post was, but I feel this way too and this is the rant forum so THERE! :)
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
chariot, i know when i give such a critique, i hope that it is received as 'next time you're in a similar situation, try this.'
Originally posted by chariot:
[i]I've heard people on this board mention how they've recieved a critique to get closer to your subject or move the subject in one direction or the other and their cop out response is "I couldn't get close to the subject because I didn't have control of the situation". My response to them is, then don't submit the photo and look for something else to shoot. Some people are new at photography and didn't know they should do this in the first place and that's fine, live and learn, but for people who already know that but took the picture anyways and submitted it, its just a cop out response.
[/i]
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06/16/2002 11:06:07 PM · #8 |
Chariot, this is great use of the rant forum, don't let anyone stop you :)
I actually did decide not to submit a photo I took this week because I'm not enough of a masochist to take all the comments I would get about the noise my camera produces in low light conditions. It's here. If it had only turned out to be as good as it looked on the lcd screen at the time, I would have felt really proud of it. That's my sister, by the way.
What I have entered is a photo that still has some noise and focus issues, and people will comment on them, but I personally like it enough to submit it. Why? Because this site is just for fun. I really don't advocate that people take it too seriously. The results are almost meaningless except for the top 3 photos. |
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06/16/2002 11:10:51 PM · #9 |
If you don't submit a photograph to a challenge because you are not totally happy with it even though you know it is the best you have got then you can not call yourself an artist because an artist knows that he/her will never be totaly happy with anything they do, they will always feel they can do better. Please don't deprive the rest of us the results of your artistic endevors because you do think it is not good enough.
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06/16/2002 11:15:01 PM · #10 |
Yes. But find a balance. If your photo isn't perfect but you are still happy with it, please submit. If it's just a quick snapshot, you are not happy with it, but submit it just to submit something, well, be prepared for the comments about 'snapshot' that you will hear all week...
Originally posted by daysez:
If you don't submit a photograph to a challenge because you are not totally happy with it even though you know it is the best you have got then you can not call yourself an artist because an artist knows that he/her will never be totaly happy with anything they do, they will always feel they can do better. Please don't deprive the rest of us the results of your artistic endevors because you do think it is not good enough.
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06/16/2002 11:19:05 PM · #11 |
| daysez, thinking about the photo of my sister I linked to, and the fact that a lot of my friends love it and thought I should have entered it, I just think there are photos that are good, but not for DPChallenge. This site is not a place where you show your favourite works, it's a place where you show the ones you want other people to judge, rate, and comment on. There are photos that will never stand up to that process even if you personally really like them. It goes back to what chariot said... I'm not a masochist. |
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06/16/2002 11:21:29 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by gr8photos:
Yes. But find a balance. If your photo isn't perfect but you are still happy with it, please submit. If it's just a quick snapshot, you are not happy with it, but submit it just to submit something, well, be prepared for the comments about 'snapshot' that you will hear all week...
Yes! I agree. But an artist will not admit to taking snapshots.
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06/18/2002 08:36:47 AM · #13 |
You may want to hate me for saying this... but that's the best photo I've seen from you so far. I really like it. A little bit of grain around edges of an object don't bother me. But grain throughout an entire image adds a bit of character to it. I don't know alot about all the famous photographers out there but I heard someone talking about a guy who's portfolio is filled with grainy picutres like this.
Originally posted by lisae:
Chariot, this is great use of the rant forum, don't let anyone stop you :)
I actually did decide not to submit a photo I took this week because I'm not enough of a masochist to take all the comments I would get about the noise my camera produces in low light conditions. It's here. If it had only turned out to be as good as it looked on the lcd screen at the time, I would have felt really proud of it. That's my sister, by the way.
What I have entered is a photo that still has some noise and focus issues, and people will comment on them, but I personally like it enough to submit it. Why? Because this site is just for fun. I really don't advocate that people take it too seriously. The results are almost meaningless except for the top 3 photos.
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06/18/2002 08:41:00 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by daysez:
If you don't submit a photograph to a challenge because you are not totally happy with it even though you know it is the best you have got then you can not call yourself an artist because an artist knows that he/her will never be totaly happy with anything they do, they will always feel they can do better. Please don't deprive the rest of us the results of your artistic endevors because you do think it is not good enough.
LOL. I'm not telling you not to submit. I want everyone to submit everything they enjoy. All I'm saying is, deal with the comments. Don't give me some bullshit excuse as to why you couldn't do this or that. Either do it, or find something else to take a picture of to submit. I guess another point would be, don't just take one picture and then gripe about how it didn't come out well, take 50 pictures and then pick the best one. I took 120 pictures of that Snail to get the one I liked for the challenge.
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06/18/2002 08:41:06 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by daysez:
Yes! I agree. But an artist will not admit to taking snapshots.
I take snapshots all the time. Whether I'm a decent artist, though, I can't really judge.
-Terry
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06/18/2002 08:49:43 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by daysez:
Originally posted by gr8photos:
[i]Yes. But find a balance. If your photo isn't perfect but you are still happy with it, please submit. If it's just a quick snapshot, you are not happy with it, but submit it just to submit something, well, be prepared for the comments about 'snapshot' that you will hear all week...
Yes! I agree. But an artist will not admit to taking snapshots.
[/i]
//www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
"a casual photograph made typically by an amateur with a small handheld camera"
Lets see... I'm an amateur (not getting paid for my photographs), if you can call a c3030 a small handheld I would say, yes I do occasionally take snapshots. But that's not what I post here. Or maybe I'm not an artist for admitting that I take snapshots. Damn.
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06/18/2002 09:10:52 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by chariot:
You may want to hate me for saying this... but that's the best photo I've seen from you so far. I really like it. A little bit of grain around edges of an object don't bother me. But grain throughout an entire image adds a bit of character to it. I don't know alot about all the famous photographers out there but I heard someone talking about a guy who's portfolio is filled with grainy picutres like this.
How could I hate someone for complimenting my photo? :)
If I'd entered it, it would have just ended up in the bottom 10 or something, with some nice comments from people like you and a few nasty ones, and I'd be here next week complaining about how narrow minded the voters are. It's not what I felt like doing this week :).
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06/18/2002 09:30:49 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by lisae:
If I''d entered it, it would have just ended up in the bottom 10 or something, with some nice comments from people like you and a few nasty ones, and I''d be here next week complaining about how narrow minded the voters are. It''s not what I felt like doing this week :).
Soo? :-) I have a photo that is as good if not better than anything I have submitted so far (this coming from some other graphic designers I know locally) and I will probably be in the bottom of the barrel. I have a 4.3..go photo go!!!!
That is why I think myself and a few others are going to get together in a smaller group setting where we get more detailed discussion. Sorta like a book of the week club or whatever.
I will still post on the forums but all my critique time will be spent with the club more than likely. I have been here 2 months and have yet had a discussion about photo technique pertaining to somthing I submitted that I was able to really use and apply. That is not a good use of my time.
I am glad that the lower vote is happening on my photo this week to help clarify why I submit. I have a 4.3, 122 votes and 6 comments and those are probably from mainly surfers.
I need more. And a popularity contest alone never made a better photographer.
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/18/2002 9:32:21 AM. |
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06/18/2002 09:32:51 AM · #19 |
"shadows may have photographed better with use of an artificial light source in a room with no windows. "
This is a portion of a comment I recieved this week. I am lmao right now. Because my photograph was taken in a completely dark room with no "real" light anywhere. This is probably proof I am a REALLY bad photographer!
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06/18/2002 09:38:27 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Dangerous_blues:
"shadows may have photographed better with use of an artificial light source in a room with no windows. "
This is a portion of a comment I recieved this week. I am lmao right now. Because my photograph was taken in a completely dark room with no "real" light anywhere. This is probably proof I am a REALLY bad photographer!
Proof... lol... It was a bad assumption on the voters part... how could anyone assume what the source of light is unless it is visible in the photo?
I have some blatantly idiotic comments this week as well but I suppose I asked for it :)
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06/18/2002 09:44:06 AM · #21 |
AT least your getting them ....I have a total of 6 comment thus far. One told me my photo should be hanging in a lawyers office. 4 of the others hate the way I cropped it. And one hates the lighting.....
Seriously considering putting my camera in the closet right now, and letting it gather lots of dust.
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06/18/2002 09:55:17 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Dangerous_blues:
AT least your getting them ....I have a total of 6 comment thus far. One told me my photo should be hanging in a lawyers office. 4 of the others hate the way I cropped it. And one hates the lighting.....
Seriously considering putting my camera in the closet right now, and letting it gather lots of dust.
Dangerous_blues..I have looked at your photos in your profile area and I think there is a lot of good stuff and potential for even great stuff.
I don't know how long you have been taking photographs but you seem to understand composition very well and you undertand the challenge topics because your photo responses are very in line witt the challenge in my opinion.
I notice you take a lot of black and white and muted tone stuff. Is that a choice or do you find yourself having trouble with any control and feel more comfortable with black and white?
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06/18/2002 10:05:18 AM · #23 |
Thank you Hokie.
I take a lot of black and whites and simple shots because that is what I like and perhaps also because I have only been doing this for a very short time.
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06/18/2002 10:41:08 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Dangerous_blues:
AT least your getting them ....I have a total of 6 comment thus far. One told me my photo should be hanging in a lawyers office. 4 of the others hate the way I cropped it. And one hates the lighting.....
Seriously considering putting my camera in the closet right now, and letting it gather lots of dust.
I just looked at your previous work, and I think all of the images you posted were quite good. I especially liked the apple photo, I scored that one a 9 in the challenge.
Don't let a few negative comments kill your resolve. I find that knowing what I was trying to accomplish with a photo helps. If there was a message that I was trying to convey, comments that suggest that people "got it" are much more encouraging to me than the score... especially because I don't necessarily expect or even want everyone to "get" everything I do.
-Terry
Please, keep up the good work!
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06/18/2002 11:05:34 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by clubjuggle:
Originally posted by Dangerous_blues:
[i]AT least your getting them ....I have a total of 6 comment thus far. One told me my photo should be hanging in a lawyers office. 4 of the others hate the way I cropped it. And one hates the lighting.....
Seriously considering putting my camera in the closet right now, and letting it gather lots of dust.
Don''t let a few negative comments kill your resolve. I find that knowing what I was trying to accomplish with a photo helps. If there was a message that I was trying to convey, comments that suggest that people "got it" are much more encouraging to me than the score... especially because I don''t necessarily expect or even want everyone to "get" everything I do.
-Terry
Please, keep up the good work!
[/i]
I agree -- I have an astounding 20 comments (120 votes) so far, and about 15 say the same thing -- great idea, but needed to improve setup thusly...so my score is under 5 but I am learning something. Someone said it was too bad we don''t have "do-overs." We CAN (for ourselves, if we have time), and this week''s is one I may try that with...
Maybe we should reprise some of the challenges with a "Before and After" format to see how people improve, and limit it to those who scored under 6 in the original challenge.
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/18/2002 11:06:30 AM. |
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