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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Custom WB
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 11/13/2004 11:04:52 AM · #1
To shoot a custom wb in a hockey arena, would you just take a shot of the ice at infinity focus (or whatever focus makes the ice really blurry)? From there I can adjust the WB till the whites are white. Is this accurate?
 11/13/2004 11:05:34 AM · #2
Shoot a piece of white paper and fill the frame with it. The ice won't be purely white.
 11/13/2004 11:08:50 AM · #3
What if I stick something semi white on top of the lens, like a pringles cap, and then shoot towards the light?

EDIT: its like one of those expo disk things except I eat pringles and they dont cost 100 dollars.

Message edited by author 2004-11-13 11:09:15.
 11/13/2004 11:12:08 AM · #4
My guess would be if you shot something "semi" white your white balance would be off :)

Edit: Spelling :)

Originally posted by hsteg:
What if I stick something semi white on top of the lens, like a pringles cap, and then shoot towards the light?


Message edited by author 2004-11-13 11:17:41.
 11/13/2004 11:16:10 AM · #5
It doesn't always have to be a problem with WB. Sometimes the problem is exposure. I am pretty sure you know what the item you're shooting is supposed to look like so WB shouldn't be a problem..

It's my guess that the arena(?) has flourescent lighting? If it does your manual (camera manual) will tell you which setting to use for those particular kinds of light, if you're still off a little bit try adjusting your exposure compensation.

Joe

edit: spelling

Message edited by author 2004-11-13 11:17:14.
 11/13/2004 11:19:53 AM · #6
Originally posted by magicshutter:
It doesn't always have to be a problem with WB. Sometimes the problem is exposure. I am pretty sure you know what the item you're shooting is supposed to look like so WB shouldn't be a problem..

It's my guess that the arena(?) has flourescent lighting? If it does your manual (camera manual) will tell you which setting to use for those particular kinds of light, if you're still off a little bit try adjusting your exposure compensation.

Joe

edit: spelling


Ive had problems with WB. I talked to one of the pros shooting the game about it. He asked me if i shot with a Custom Wb and I said no, and then he said that Id probably have a red cast due to the mercury lighting in that arena. I said, it doesnt seem red on the lcd, why would it later? And he said that Our eyes adjusted to the rinks redness, but our cameras didnt. He was using a 1d and a 70-200 2.8. Sure enough, when i got home, i had a nasty red tint on all of them. (easily fixed, but still shouldnt be there from the start)
 11/13/2004 12:17:43 PM · #7
Originally posted by hsteg:
Originally posted by magicshutter:
It doesn't always have to be a problem with WB. Sometimes the problem is exposure. I am pretty sure you know what the item you're shooting is supposed to look like so WB shouldn't be a problem..

It's my guess that the arena(?) has flourescent lighting? If it does your manual (camera manual) will tell you which setting to use for those particular kinds of light, if you're still off a little bit try adjusting your exposure compensation.

Joe

edit: spelling


Ive had problems with WB. I talked to one of the pros shooting the game about it. He asked me if i shot with a Custom Wb and I said no, and then he said that Id probably have a red cast due to the mercury lighting in that arena. I said, it doesnt seem red on the lcd, why would it later? And he said that Our eyes adjusted to the rinks redness, but our cameras didnt. He was using a 1d and a 70-200 2.8. Sure enough, when i got home, i had a nasty red tint on all of them. (easily fixed, but still shouldnt be there from the start)


Also, those mercury vapor lights take a long time to warm up, so you may want to re-set the custom WB a couple times near the beginning of the game. It's my personal theory that the only reason we have to suffer through the singing of the national anthem ever hockey game is to let the mercury vapor lights warm up. :)
 11/13/2004 12:38:16 PM · #8
Originally posted by hsteg:
Ive had problems with WB. I talked to one of the pros shooting the game about it.


Try to find him again or another one (shooting with Canon pref.) and ask at what temperature in Kelvin he has his whitebalance set for the lighting there. In the 20D you are able to enter that number pretty easily if I am not mistaken.

Another solution is RAW...


11/13/2004 12:49:52 PM · #9
Originally posted by Azrifel:

Another solution is RAW...

Agree. Shoot RAW then you have very good control on the WB in the post processing.
 11/13/2004 12:54:20 PM · #10
RAW, then it won't matter what you were shooting at, as long as it is the same throughout. Open one, WB with the eyedropper. Batch to all. Done.
 11/13/2004 01:03:49 PM · #11
I dont have the space or the skill yet for raw. Are there any other solutions for the WB?
 11/13/2004 01:10:37 PM · #12
Originally posted by hsteg:
I dont have the space or the skill yet for raw. Are there any other solutions for the WB?


You dont need any further skills shooting RAW compaird to JPEG but this can be a problem if you have a small memory card.

If you can´t shoot raw then I think it would be best to customize your WB by using white paper or other white object.
 11/13/2004 01:32:21 PM · #13
If you set a custom WB using a card, you risk the lighting not being the same temperature as on the rink. Prolly good enough, certainly a great improvement over a preset. Setting a kelvin WB is a better idea if you know what it should be, which is the issue. Setting it based on the ice is really not that bad an idea, if the "background" under the ice is white. That way, you're setting it in the lighting environment on the rink.
The best solutionn is of course RAW, but if you lack the storage capacity, that is certainly an issue. Anything less than RAW seems to either be an approximation or to require up-front knowledge, e.g. a correct kelvin setting.
BTW, arc lamps can have very different temperatures depending on the metals used in the vapor, therefore every venue tends to be different. Occasionally they will mix different types of lamps in the same venue, and that's a real treat.
 11/13/2004 01:34:45 PM · #14
Originally posted by kirbic:
If you set a custom WB using a card, you risk the lighting not being the same temperature as on the rink. Prolly good enough, certainly a great improvement over a preset. Setting a kelvin WB is a better idea if you know what it should be, which is the issue. Setting it based on the ice is really not that bad an idea, if the "background" under the ice is white. That way, you're setting it in the lighting environment on the rink.
The best solutionn is of course RAW, but if you lack the storage capacity, that is certainly an issue. Anything less than RAW seems to either be an approximation or to require up-front knowledge, e.g. a correct kelvin setting.
BTW, arc lamps can have very different temperatures depending on the metals used in the vapor, therefore every venue tends to be different. Occasionally they will mix different types of lamps in the same venue, and that's a real treat.

yeah, i hate when the have blueish lights, and RIGHT NEXT TO IT, are reddish lights.
11/13/2004 04:14:20 PM · #15
I guess the best solution for no RAW, is to get down to the rink/ice level and do your white balance on a white card or 18% grey card from there. Assuming you have Photoshop....
You are able to make these adjustments without RAW also, Using levels (saving the settings) and Curves. If all the shots are under the same conditions, open one of them, use the color sampler tool and mark three places. A white (highlight), black, and medium grey (18% if you can). This will put three sets of three sets of numbers (RGB) into the Info box (be sure that is open). Opening levels go to red, green, and/or blue dropdown. Now you just have to adjust the numbers up or down until the sampled areas for white and black all equal the same in the info box (ie: highlights are all 240 for R, G, and B and like 8 on black sampled area). When done, save this as levels.alv. then ok. <---Very important to not forget this.
Go to Curves, through all the R, G, B dropdowns and put "anchors" where the first box in each corner come together. Average what the original grey sampled numbers come to (ie:R-121, G-130, B-116 =122) Now on Red, put a plot in the middle of the line somewhere. Change the numbers of the input box to 121 and the output to 122. Do this under green and blue also (G-Input 130 Output 122, B-Input 116 Output 122). Save this one (curves.acv), then OK. <----Important to not forget this.
Now the fun part...reset the open file to the Open state. Now make a new action (I call it color and tone correction). Now all you have to do is start recording the action...go to Levels and Load the levels.alv and ok. Go to Curves and load the curves.acv and ok (save to wherever and quality, etc if you like), then close. Stop recording action. Now you can use the browser to run that action on all of the pics.
It sounds like a pain and takes time, but it really doesn't. Saves tons of time on adjusting all those one at a time. I run shots through this and one that is a slight sharpener and AntiAliasing action, almost always. Especially when involving people.

Message edited by author 2004-11-13 16:15:32.
 11/13/2004 04:32:22 PM · #16
Any time that I shoot under lights (indoors or at night) I will set a custom white balance and then double check it every hour.

Setting your Custom white balance is extremely easy. I went to the photo store and bought a gray card that I then cut up a bit so it fits perfectly in my waist pack. You simply face the direction that you will be shooting and focus on the gray card filling the frame. Make sure your exposure is set then take a picture. Use that frame to set your custom white balance.

Yes you can use RAW to fix your problems... but why take the picture knowing it's wrong? Just take it correctly to begin with.
 11/13/2004 06:34:56 PM · #17
Originally posted by Jason:
Yes you can use RAW to fix your problems... but why take the picture knowing it's wrong? Just take it correctly to begin with.


That depends a lot on your situation. Equal light all the time? Fine, set one custom whitebalance and you are done. When you are out and about with the light changing all the time it is a relieve to be able to only focus on what you shoot instead of messing with setting all the time.
Even indoors when you are in a theater or congress hall there are a lot of different light colors. You only need to shoot the stage/actors/speaker, easy. But when you walk around and shoot under all the different conditions the WB is just a 'pita'.
Another great advantage of RAW is hidden data in the higlights that you loose in jpeg but can bring back with exposure compensation in a raw converter. Again, depend on what you shoot if it is necessary.
Even a correctly taken pic can benefit from RAW editing.

11/13/2004 07:20:20 PM · #18
I know and understand the benefits of taking an image in RAW, I was just making a statement to those that are saying not to worry about and just fix it later. That's seems to be a lot of people's opinion these days (not just here), to take a picture then fix it later in Photoshop what ever the problem might be. Maybe it's a carry over from shooting film but I believe that you should just shoot the picture correctly to begin with.
 11/13/2004 08:43:59 PM · #19
Originally posted by Jason:
... seems to be a lot of people's opinion these days (not just here), to take a picture then fix it later in Photoshop what ever the problem might be.

And the problem is spreading ...
11/13/2004 11:21:16 PM · #20
While gray cards are intended for correct exposure measurement, they are probably not high enough on the luminance scale for a good (ideal) white balance setting, though they'll probably be better than nothing when a strong colour cast is already present. The back of your gray card is probably white and luminous enough for JPEG shooting.

If you're shooting RAW, exposing for highlights will give you better results, though this is obviously impractical in some situations (like shooting sports in low light conditions :-).
 11/14/2004 12:02:53 AM · #21
Good site to check out. Just ordered my WhiBal Pocket cards (been waiting for them to be in stock).
//www.rawworkflow.com/
//www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-raw-files.shtml
RAW vs. jpg good article

Message edited by author 2004-11-14 00:14:35.
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