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01/01/2005 08:38:22 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Becuase most of the world is not as free, and freedom is a threat to them |
Sadly, even in Canada, democracy is a big illusion.
We get to vote once every four years and it gives us the illusion of freedom... rest of the time, people with big pockets make all the decisions and when we don't agree and protest, we get pushed back with tear gas...
Or worse, when Quebec came close to get a positive vote on independance, the federal governement was ready to declare martial law and send in the military...
As for this discussion bordering a rant thread, I don't understand why a simple discussion (which in the end may help the original poster understand the differences between Canadiens and Americans) all of a sudden becomes a bad thing.
I think that this whole discussion up to now has been very civilized compared to many other political discussions I've seen.
I know this forum is for photography but it goes to show that the users of this site are not one dimensional and can discuss many different things which I think, should not be regarded as a bad thing.
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01/01/2005 08:46:46 PM · #52 |
The reason its considered a 'rant' by a few people (myself included) is because this turned into a bash and call the US names thread. Lets all talk about how bad America sucks. Seems everyone has their own little reasons as to why America is bad or how to fix every problem in America.
Just because America's 'problems' are the most widely publicized doesn't mean we have anywhere near the problems as other countries even your own countries. We (America) just aren't a bunch of cowards...when something goes wrong here, it's hung out like dirty laundry for the rest of the world to see. Then everyone makes their own little assumptions of what America should have done or what we did wrong. Get off it already.
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01/01/2005 09:06:47 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
Originally posted by deapee:
Besides...if America didn't protect Canada, some terrorist nation would come and take it over. |
Canada does not need to be protected. Why? We don't make ourselves ennemy with anybody. We are not trying to rule (or police it as I've heard before) the world. Canadians are respected in every country. No one's after us! We don't need protection... |
Civilians in 3rd world countries arent being blown up by Canadian guns, missles, bombs and mines.
Canada is also not imposing their will on other countries unjustly.
Canadian corporations are not the ones taking over the world.
The 1st casulty of war is always truth.
"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
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01/01/2005 09:09:34 PM · #54 |
| What will are we imposing on other countries unjustly? |
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01/01/2005 09:09:57 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by _Armadildo_:
Originally posted by photodude:
Becuase most of the world is not as free, and freedom is a threat to them |
Sadly, even in Canada, democracy is a big illusion.
We get to vote once every four years and it gives us the illusion of freedom... rest of the time, people with big pockets make all the decisions and when we don't agree and protest, we get pushed back with tear gas...
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This is true. |
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01/01/2005 09:12:36 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by photodude:
What will are we imposing on other countries unjustly? |
lol..
Iraq ring a bell? At least you aught to know about that one. |
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01/01/2005 09:15:40 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by _Armadildo_:
...even in Canada, democracy is a big illusion...
...As for this discussion bordering a rant thread, I don't understand why a simple discussion (which in the end may help the original poster understand the differences between Canadiens and Americans) all of a sudden becomes a bad thing.
I think that this whole discussion up to now has been very civilized compared to many other political discussions I've seen.
I know this forum is for photography but it goes to show that the users of this site are not one dimensional and can discuss many different things which I think, should not be regarded as a bad thing. |
Well said! Thank for pointing out that Canada is not perfect either. Canada is known for the kind country... And that's a problem too! Canada is such a nice country that they use laws to reinforce that image... Unpopular speech is not appreciated.
Here's a funny USA/Canada comparison regarding freedom of speech. I envy the freedom of speech that country has (and how so far, it's been well protected)...
In the USA, censorship is strong on how you say things but you are allowed to say whatever you guys want. You guys have a bunch of blackbooked words that you cannot use. But the ideas and opinions (using synonyms for those words) are usally well received.
Canada on the other hand, is a lot more tolerant... The "f" word is used on public TV (here in Quebec, it's also used in TV shows and magazines for teenagers, english being the second language). We're also a lot more tolerant towards sexually oriented material. Again, lots of nakedness on public TV...
But, in that illusion of democracy... Medias (governed mostly by the government) will fire or punich people for the essence of their expressed ideas. It becomes really hard to emmit a socialogical/political opinion because as soon as you talk about any group (wether it's race, gender, sexual orientation, etc, etc)with any negative comment (even when it's factual) you will get shut down.
So, to be fair in this discussion, yes, Canada is not the perfect country... I'm still proud to be a Franco-Canadian, but I must confess that there are things about the USA that I envy. Then again, some that I dispise (i.e. American attitude towards the rest of the world) and remember that what is being talked about here, are points of views toward other country's foreing policies, not individual attacks on their citizens. Nothing that a society that truly believes in freedom of speech might fear.
Use the opportunity to discuss and learn about different cultures. Hopefully, we can all become more tolerant towards each other. It is essential to be prepared to have different opinions and values. Sometime it's good to put those aside (not denying them), the time needed to understand and respect the differences that still make this planet a cool, and diversified place to be.
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01/01/2005 09:22:04 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by _Armadildo_:
Sadly, even in Canada, democracy is a big illusion.
We get to vote once every four years and it gives us the illusion of freedom... rest of the time, people with big pockets make all the decisions and when we don't agree and protest, we get pushed back with tear gas...
Or worse, when Quebec came close to get a positive vote on independance, the federal governement was ready to declare martial law and send in the military... |
Quite true. There are laws in Quebec prohibiting the use of English on commercial signs...you put a sign in English in Quebec and the language police will shut you down...so much for democracy. Not to mention the massive fraud in the referendum where thousands of "no" vote were dismissed by the separatist government of the time, they also publicly made racist remarks blaming the "ethnic vote" for their defeat. So democracy is really an illusion...better than living in some third world dictatorship but not quite the democracy everyone thinks about.
Message edited by author 2005-01-01 21:32:47.
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01/01/2005 09:22:08 PM · #59 |
Well I'm with you on that one, we should do 3 things there
1. Secure the oil facilities
2. Controll their borders - no freedom fighters from Iran, etc allowed in.
3. Establish a large permanent base with armor on the ground, somewhere in the desert away from population. This would give us the means to strike at any true threat to america in the middle east on a virtual moments notice.
Then we should get out of the way and let them figure it all out. Of course that will be a civil war, but I do agree with you. |
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01/01/2005 09:34:41 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Well I'm with you on that one, we should do 3 things there
1. Secure the oil facilities
2. Controll their borders - no freedom fighters from Iran, etc allowed in.
3. Establish a large permanent base with armor on the ground, somewhere in the desert away from population. This would give us the means to strike at any true threat to america in the middle east on a virtual moments notice.
Then we should get out of the way and let them figure it all out. Of course that will be a civil war, but I do agree with you. |
Wow. And you ask me how America is imposing its will unjustly? Yet you think we should take over the resources of another country by force and control its borders?
You should analyze your thinking there pal. |
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01/01/2005 09:39:11 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by doctornick:
Originally posted by _Armadildo_:
Sadly, even in Canada, democracy is a big illusion.
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Quite true. There are laws in Quebec prohibiting the use of English on commercial signs...you put a sign in English in Quebec and the language police will shut you down...so much for democracy. |
Funny you should mention that... I'm a french Canadian who loves the french language (I really do)... But I think it's ridiculous what the government here in Quebec is doing toward language issues. The government should butt out!
Let's practice democracy on a lower scale (I think it's essentiel to reinforce the foundations). If a business (here in Quebec) uses english, the government will fine them of even shut the place down. If we really believed in democracy (or at least practice it) we should let them!
If the area where this business is operating has a lot of english customers, it will serve its client. If the area is mostly french... I encourage everybody to not support this business. Therefore, the business will have to review their language policies to keep making good profit. Let's say in an area where the majority of people are french, and the only business in the area is operating in english... Instead of reporting them to the "french police" to have this place changed... Why not start a competive business that will accomodate the french speaking people? If there is such a demand, this business will become quite profitable...
See that's the kind of attitude that I despise right here where I live. The government makes so much effort in protecting the rights of all minoritys (ethnic, gender, sexual orientation, handicaps) wich is good. But I can't believe how the anglophones get bashed day in day out and that being acceptable...
Probably because the separatist parties encourage that sort of thing out of... fear?
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01/01/2005 09:39:19 PM · #62 |
[quote]Originally posted by: grandmarginal
i.e. American attitude towards the rest of the world[/quote]
And what exactly is America's attitude toward the rest of the world?
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01/01/2005 09:40:05 PM · #63 |
Its easy, they are a bunch of tribes in a big terrorist cult. Other than oil, their big export is violence and terrorism in a shrinking and increasingly crowded world.
If they kept to themselves it would be one thing, but they don't |
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01/01/2005 09:41:56 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Originally posted by photodude:
Well I'm with you on that one, we should do 3 things there
1. Secure the oil facilities
2. Controll their borders - no freedom fighters from Iran, etc allowed in.
3. Establish a large permanent base with armor on the ground, somewhere in the desert away from population. This would give us the means to strike at any true threat to america in the middle east on a virtual moments notice.
Then we should get out of the way and let them figure it all out. Of course that will be a civil war, but I do agree with you. |
Wow. And you ask me how America is imposing its will unjustly? Yet you think we should take over the resources of another country by force and control its borders?
You should analyze your thinking there pal. |
Funny how some people have double-speeches without even realising it!
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01/01/2005 09:42:46 PM · #65 |
Korea & Japan do not like each other or think of each other as siblings - gotta agree with gibun there.
Annyoung.
M
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01/01/2005 09:43:33 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
Funny how some people have double-speeches without even realising it! |
Even funnier how you claim to know exactly how every American feels about the rest of the world.
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01/01/2005 09:44:12 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by deapee:
[quote]Originally posted by: grandmarginal
i.e. American attitude towards the rest of the world |
And what exactly is America's attitude toward the rest of the world? [/quote]
Here's a pretty good example!
Originally posted by photodude:
Well I'm with you on that one, we should do 3 things there |
1. Secure the oil facilities
2. Controll their borders - no freedom fighters from Iran, etc allowed in.
3. Establish a large permanent base with armor on the ground, somewhere in the desert away from population. This would give us the means to strike at any true threat to america in the middle east on a virtual moments notice.
Message edited by author 2005-01-01 21:45:52.
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01/01/2005 09:44:21 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by deapee:
The reason its considered a 'rant' by a few people (myself included) is because this turned into a bash and call the US names thread. Lets all talk about how bad America sucks. Seems everyone has their own little reasons as to why America is bad or how to fix every problem in America.
Just because America's 'problems' are the most widely publicized doesn't mean we have anywhere near the problems as other countries even your own countries. We (America) just aren't a bunch of cowards...when something goes wrong here, it's hung out like dirty laundry for the rest of the world to see. Then everyone makes their own little assumptions of what America should have done or what we did wrong. Get off it already. |
Dude, chill out already. People have the right to voice their opinions about the U.S., just like you can call other countries "cowards" and what-not. Don't be a hypocrite.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It might actually be beneficial to us in the states to pay a little more attention to the opinions of those outside of our borders, so we can have a "real" world view.
And unfortunately there is a large number of Americans that are ignorant and arrogant.
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01/01/2005 09:47:02 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by cbeller:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It might actually be beneficial to us in the states to pay a little more attention to the opinions of those outside of our borders, so we can have a "real" world view. |
Amen...
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01/01/2005 09:47:16 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by grandmarginal:
Here's a pretty good example!
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NO...that is ONE American's attitude toward the rest of the world -- not to be confused with America's attitude toward the rest of the world.
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01/01/2005 09:50:16 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by cbeller:
Dude, chill out already. People have the right to voice their opinions about the U.S., just like you can call other countries "cowards" and what-not. Don't be a hypocrite.
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I've sat here at my computer and listened to narrow-minded individuals from other countries call my country arrogant, ignorant, selfish, stuck up, among other things...and I'm supposed to chill out? Dude...grow some respect for your nation, or move to Canada where there is no respect to be had.
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01/01/2005 09:51:39 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by deapee:
And what exactly is America's attitude toward the rest of the world? |
We win, you don't, quit crying about it?
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01/01/2005 09:53:00 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by deapee:
I've sat here at my computer and listened to narrow-minded individuals from other countries call my country arrogant, ignorant, selfish, stuck up, among other things...and I'm supposed to chill out? Dude...grow some respect for your nation, or move to Canada where there is no respect to be had. |
And there is yet another example of bad American attitude.
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01/01/2005 09:54:07 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
And there is yet another example of bad American attitude. |
250 million strong.
:)
M
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01/01/2005 09:55:02 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Originally posted by deapee:
I've sat here at my computer and listened to narrow-minded individuals from other countries call my country arrogant, ignorant, selfish, stuck up, among other things...and I'm supposed to chill out? Dude...grow some respect for your nation, or move to Canada where there is no respect to be had. |
And there is yet another example of bad American attitude. |
No shit cause all you cowards have me entirely pissed off at this point in time.
And no, I will not step back, I will not relax -- I'm not going to sit here and let morons belittle my country that would stand up for your country in a heartbeat. Just hope your country never crosses the line with America and you'll be fine.
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