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11/11/2004 11:49:01 AM · #1 |
Dr. Bob Jones III, president of the coservative-christian Bob Jones University, where until recently (1999-2000) inter-racial dating was prohibited, wrote the following letter to Mr. Bush:
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President George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Dear Mr. President:
The media tells us that you have received the largest number of popular votes of any president in America's history. Congratulations!
In your re-election, God has graciously granted America -- though she doesn't deserve it -- a reprieve from the agenda of paganism. You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet. Because you seek the Lord daily, we who know the Lord will follow that kind of voice eagerly.
Don't equivocate. Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ. Honor the Lord, and He will honor you.
Had your opponent won, I would have still given thanks, because the Bible says I must (I Thessalonians 5:18). It would have been hard, but because the Lord lifts up whom He will and pulls down whom He will, I would have done it. It is easy to rejoice today, because Christ has allowed you to be His servant in this nation for another presidential term. Undoubtedly, you will have opportunity to appoint many conservative judges and exercise forceful leadership with the Congress in passing legislation that is defined by biblical norm regarding the family, sexuality, sanctity of life, religious freedom, freedom of speech, and limited government. You have four years -- a brief time only -- to leave an imprint for righteousness upon this nation that brings with it the blessings of Almighty God.
Christ said, "If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my father honour" (John 12:26).
The student body, faculty, and staff at Bob Jones University commit ourselves to pray for you -- that you would do right and honor the Savior. Pull out all the stops and make a difference. If you have weaklings around you who do not share your biblical values, shed yourself of them. Conservative Americans would love to see one president who doesn't care whether he is liked, but cares infinitely that he does right.
Best wishes.
Sincerely your friend,
Bob Jones III
President
BJIII:lw
PS: A few moments ago I read this letter to the students in Chapel. They applauded loudly their approval.
When I told them that Tom Daschle was no longer the minority leader of the Senate, they cheered again.
On occasion, Christians have not agreed with things you said during your first term. Nonetheless, we could not be more thankful that God has given you four more years to serve Him in the White House, never taking off your Christian faith and laying it aside as a man takes off a jacket, but living, speaking, and making decisions as one who knows the Bible to be eternally true.
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//www.bju.edu/letter
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11/11/2004 12:01:55 PM · #2 |
| Wow. What a letter. Thanks for sharing. |
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11/11/2004 12:09:58 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Wow. What a letter. Thanks for sharing. |
Yes, quite a letter -- too bad I disagree with its intent and with the positions of the author.
Message edited by author 2004-11-11 12:33:10.
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11/11/2004 12:20:10 PM · #4 |
It appears your prayers have fallen on deaf ears
God has abandoned the human race.
Left to fend and face the winter of soul
Orphaned and alone, the children quiver and cold
As diablo takes hold
With a swagger(t)
And promises of petrol
But don't stop your prayers
Find a god who cares!
Originally posted by bdobe:
"The student body, faculty, and staff at Bob Jones University commit ourselves to pray for you -- that you would do right..." |
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11/11/2004 12:35:22 PM · #5 |
Man, I hoped these political threads would die after the election.
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11/11/2004 12:59:31 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
Dr. Bob Jones III, president of the coservative-christian Bob Jones University, where until recently (1999-2000) inter-racial dating was prohibited, wrote the following letter to Mr. Bush:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
President George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Dear Mr. President:
The media tells us that you have received the largest number of popular votes of any president in America's history. Congratulations!
In your re-election, God has graciously granted America -- though she doesn't deserve it -- a reprieve from the agenda of paganism. You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet. Because you seek the Lord daily, we who know the Lord will follow that kind of voice eagerly.
Don't equivocate. Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ. Honor the Lord, and He will honor you.
Had your opponent won, I would have still given thanks, because the Bible says I must (I Thessalonians 5:18). It would have been hard, but because the Lord lifts up whom He will and pulls down whom He will, I would have done it. It is easy to rejoice today, because Christ has allowed you to be His servant in this nation for another presidential term. Undoubtedly, you will have opportunity to appoint many conservative judges and exercise forceful leadership with the Congress in passing legislation that is defined by biblical norm regarding the family, sexuality, sanctity of life, religious freedom, freedom of speech, and limited government. You have four years -- a brief time only -- to leave an imprint for righteousness upon this nation that brings with it the blessings of Almighty God.
Christ said, "If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my father honour" (John 12:26).
The student body, faculty, and staff at Bob Jones University commit ourselves to pray for you -- that you would do right and honor the Savior. Pull out all the stops and make a difference. If you have weaklings around you who do not share your biblical values, shed yourself of them. Conservative Americans would love to see one president who doesn't care whether he is liked, but cares infinitely that he does right.
Best wishes.
Sincerely your friend,
Bob Jones III
President
BJIII:lw
PS: A few moments ago I read this letter to the students in Chapel. They applauded loudly their approval.
When I told them that Tom Daschle was no longer the minority leader of the Senate, they cheered again.
On occasion, Christians have not agreed with things you said during your first term. Nonetheless, we could not be more thankful that God has given you four more years to serve Him in the White House, never taking off your Christian faith and laying it aside as a man takes off a jacket, but living, speaking, and making decisions as one who knows the Bible to be eternally true.
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//www.bju.edu/letter |
All I can say is, "Is this guy for real?" That's the mentality that has the world in the state that it's in. And I'm not pointing fingers at individual religions. Fanaticalism and fundamentalism breeds contempt, which ever way you pray.
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11/11/2004 02:25:24 PM · #7 |
I'd like to pose a serious question to those who "have a real problem" with the letter from Bob Jones III to President Bush.
The question is, apart from stating his opinions ( which we SHOULD all be entitled to do, wouldn't you agree? )what specifically do you find wrong with what he espouses?
Is it wrong to request that the President be as clear as a trumpet?
Is it wrong to request that the President not equivocate?
Is it wrong to request that the President honor the Lord?
Is it wrong to request that the President appoint conservative judges ( conservative as in judging in accordance with the Constitution as it is written, not as it has been previously interpreted )
Is it wrong to request that the President exercise strong leadership with the Congress? And if it's because Bob Jones III adds "in passing legislation that is defined by biblical norm" then I would ask
Is it wrong to request that ANY President refrain from persuing an agenda based on his own principles?
Is it wrong to request that the President make a difference?
Is it wrong to request that the President do right?
I'm curious as to just what it is that is really raising such an outcry.
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11/11/2004 02:36:52 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by RonB:
I'd like to pose a serious question to those who "have a real problem" with the letter from Bob Jones III to President Bush.
The question is, apart from stating his opinions ( which we SHOULD all be entitled to do, wouldn't you agree? )what specifically do you find wrong with what he espouses?
Is it wrong to request that the President be as clear as a trumpet?
Is it wrong to request that the President not equivocate?
Is it wrong to request that the President honor the Lord?
Is it wrong to request that the President appoint conservative judges ( conservative as in judging in accordance with the Constitution as it is written, not as it has been previously interpreted )
Is it wrong to request that the President exercise strong leadership with the Congress? And if it's because Bob Jones III adds "in passing legislation that is defined by biblical norm" then I would ask
Is it wrong to request that ANY President refrain from persuing an agenda based on his own principles?
Is it wrong to request that the President make a difference?
Is it wrong to request that the President do right?
I'm curious as to just what it is that is really raising such an outcry. |
It is very wrong to ask someone to acknowledge your god when believing in any (other) god makes them blasphemous against their own beliefs.
What I mean is, if the president is a Christian by religion, then acknowledging Buddah is blasphemous as his bible would clearly state 'Thou shalt not have any Gods before me'. So yes it would be wrong to ask someone to go against their beliefs.
-Joe
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11/11/2004 02:47:18 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
Originally posted by RonB:
Wow. What a letter. Thanks for sharing. |
Yes, quite a letter -- too bad I disagree with its intent and with the positions of the author. |
who cares if you disagree or not. you have been out-voted...
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11/11/2004 02:49:00 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by magicshutter:
Originally posted by RonB:
I'd like to pose a serious question to those who "have a real problem" with the letter from Bob Jones III to President Bush.
The question is, apart from stating his opinions ( which we SHOULD all be entitled to do, wouldn't you agree? )what specifically do you find wrong with what he espouses?
Is it wrong to request that the President be as clear as a trumpet?
Is it wrong to request that the President not equivocate?
Is it wrong to request that the President honor the Lord?
Is it wrong to request that the President appoint conservative judges ( conservative as in judging in accordance with the Constitution as it is written, not as it has been previously interpreted )
Is it wrong to request that the President exercise strong leadership with the Congress? And if it's because Bob Jones III adds "in passing legislation that is defined by biblical norm" then I would ask
Is it wrong to request that ANY President refrain from persuing an agenda based on his own principles?
Is it wrong to request that the President make a difference?
Is it wrong to request that the President do right?
I'm curious as to just what it is that is really raising such an outcry. |
It is very wrong to ask someone to acknowledge your god when believing in any (other) god makes them blasphemous against their own beliefs.
What I mean is, if the president is a Christian by religion, then acknowledging Buddah is blasphemous as his bible would clearly state 'Thou shalt not have any Gods before me'. So yes it would be wrong to ask someone to go against their beliefs.
-Joe |
I'm sorry, but could you show me where that shows up in Bob Jones' letter? I mean the part about asking someone to acknowledge your god or to go against their beliefs? |
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11/11/2004 02:57:36 PM · #11 |
How about 'If you have weaklings around you who do not share your biblical values, shed yourself of them.'
Originally posted by RonB:
I'm sorry, but could you show me where that shows up in Bob Jones' letter? I mean the part about asking someone to acknowledge your god or to go against their beliefs? |
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11/11/2004 03:02:48 PM · #12 |
"Mr. President
To mess? Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."
(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.
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11/11/2004 03:07:05 PM · #13 |
Good on ya Linda. Separation of church an dstate is one of the most fundamental bases in the US political system. Sadly it seems to have been forgotten by the majority of the ecountry.
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11/11/2004 03:23:46 PM · #14 |
There is an ocean of information about their (the constitution fathers) concern, letters and dialoges available on the Net. Information should be gathered from .edu or .gov to be considered accurate.
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11/11/2004 03:36:11 PM · #15 |
I'm sorry, but could you show me where that shows up in Bob Jones' letter? I mean the part about asking someone to acknowledge your god or to go against their beliefs? [/quote]
I was responding to your post. read more carefully before you ask.
[quote=RonB]Is it wrong to request that the President honor the Lord?
Message edited by author 2004-11-11 15:37:48.
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11/11/2004 03:49:24 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
How about 'If you have weaklings around you who do not share your biblical values, shed yourself of them.'
Originally posted by RonB:
I'm sorry, but could you show me where that shows up in Bob Jones' letter? I mean the part about asking someone to acknowledge your god or to go against their beliefs? |
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The request is only that he shed himself of WEAKLINGS who do not share his biblical values. If they do not share his biblical values, but are STRONG, the request is, obviously, not applicable.
Is there a problem with that? |
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11/11/2004 03:54:15 PM · #17 |
| I think the implication was that they are weaklings because they don't share his biblical values. |
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11/11/2004 03:54:42 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by magicshutter:
I'm sorry, but could you show me where that shows up in Bob Jones' letter? I mean the part about asking someone to acknowledge your god or to go against their beliefs? |
I was responding to your post. read more carefully before you ask.
Originally posted by RonB:
Is it wrong to request that the President honor the Lord? |
In Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, quoted in an earlier post, says "I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man".
Is not that honoring the Lord? Would you have challenged Jefferson's right to Pray, or to acknowledge publicly that he did so? If not, why would you advocate denying President Bush that same right. |
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11/11/2004 03:56:32 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by kevinf:
I think the implication was that they are weaklings because they don't share his biblical values. |
An interesting interpretation, but not the one I came to. Perhaps we should ask Mr. Jones for a clarification.
Or, you can interpret it and make of it what you will. As will I. |
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11/11/2004 04:13:41 PM · #20 |
Rob - I stipped all the 'offending' parts to show you a letter I could respect.
Dear Mr. President:
The media tells us that you have received the largest number of popular votes of any president in America's history. Congratulations!
You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet.
Don't equivocate. Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil.
Had your opponent won, I would have still given thanks. It would have been hard, but I would have done it. You have four years -- a brief time only -- to leave an imprint.
Pull out all the stops and make a difference. Conservative Americans would love to see one president who doesn't care whether he is liked, but cares infinitely that he does right.
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11/11/2004 04:14:50 PM · #21 |
| Sorry, I meant Ron and I don't know how to edit. |
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11/11/2004 04:42:27 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by kevinf:
Rob - I stipped all the 'offending' parts to show you a letter I could respect.
Dear Mr. President:
The media tells us that you have received the largest number of popular votes of any president in America's history. Congratulations!
You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet.
Don't equivocate. Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil.
Had your opponent won, I would have still given thanks. It would have been hard, but I would have done it. You have four years -- a brief time only -- to leave an imprint.
Pull out all the stops and make a difference. Conservative Americans would love to see one president who doesn't care whether he is liked, but cares infinitely that he does right. |
That version would have been a nicely 'sanitized' version. What you have done is called "censorship".Is that what you prefer? Sanitization? Censorship? If so, then perhaps we should ask site council to moderate to insure that all posters 'sanitize' their posts likewise, or be subject to Censorship. If we strip all correspondence of personality, and opinions, what is left?
Sorry, while I can see that it would have been more palatable to you, it would have denied the expression of thoughts that our ancestors fought so hard to achieve and maintain.
I am still waiting for a rationale explanation of what was so upsetting about the letter. From a logical, not emotional, perspective. |
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11/11/2004 04:49:57 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by magicshutter:
I'm sorry, but could you show me where that shows up in Bob Jones' letter? I mean the part about asking someone to acknowledge your god or to go against their beliefs? |
I was responding to your post. read more carefully before you ask.
Originally posted by RonB:
Is it wrong to request that the President honor the Lord? |
In Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, quoted in an earlier post, says "I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man".
Is not that honoring the Lord? Would you have challenged Jefferson's right to Pray, or to acknowledge publicly that he did so? If not, why would you advocate denying President Bush that same right. |
First of all, this is america. People have the right to believe anything they want and express that freely. What I said was it's wrong to expect anyone (even the president) to acknowledge your God if and when they are not the same God (I use the term 'same god' lightly as I believe all religions embrace the same God, just interprit (spelling?) God's words differently) Again, I am not against the freedom to speak your religion or believe in what you speak. I am on the other hand against holding it against someone when they believe differently and fail to acknowledge 'YOUR God' as in any religion it's blasphemous to do the work of God (which is judging souls).
It's really a catch 22. You're not allowed to acknowldege other religions, and also not allowed to judge another soul based on their belief or lack there of.
Joe.
edit: spelling (did my best)
Message edited by author 2004-11-11 16:51:12.
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11/11/2004 04:58:04 PM · #24 |
| Censorship? Wow, you took that in such a completely weird direction I'm not sure how to respond to you. Bob Jones wasn't wrong in expressing himself, I never said he was and most definitely never said his letter should have been censored. I tried to show you what was upsetting about the letter. Sorry my rational was too abstrat for you. Let me try again. The religious theme was upsetting to me because it tells me there are people who believe our President should be ruling bible in hand. I disagree with that. I don't know, is that a logical enough reason, to wasn't a separation of church and state? |
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11/11/2004 05:02:24 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by kevinf:
Rob - I stipped all the 'offending' parts to show you a letter I could respect.
Dear Mr. President:
The media tells us that you have received the largest number of popular votes of any president in America's history. Congratulations!
You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet.
Don't equivocate. Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil.
Had your opponent won, I would have still given thanks. It would have been hard, but I would have done it. You have four years -- a brief time only -- to leave an imprint.
Pull out all the stops and make a difference. Conservative Americans would love to see one president who doesn't care whether he is liked, but cares infinitely that he does right. |
That version would have been a nicely 'sanitized' version. What you have done is called "censorship".Is that what you prefer? Sanitization? Censorship? If so, then perhaps we should ask site council to moderate to insure that all posters 'sanitize' their posts likewise, or be subject to Censorship. If we strip all correspondence of personality, and opinions, what is left?
Sorry, while I can see that it would have been more palatable to you, it would have denied the expression of thoughts that our ancestors fought so hard to achieve and maintain.
I am still waiting for a rationale explanation of what was so upsetting about the letter. From a logical, not emotional, perspective. |
I'll agree that censorship is abosolutely NOT ok. My post was not about who has the right to say what. My post was about the right, or wrong nature of expecting the president to acknowledge something against his own belief. The common wealth have just as much right to speak out as the president does, as does the president have the same rights in believing what he believes. If that is a problem for you, vote for the other guy (which is another right)
If you want to talk about how modern society allows the constitution to be violated, that is a whole different subject. For the record, the author of that letter had every right to send that letter, word for word as TJ had the right to throw it away without retortion.
For the people who think I'm talking about rights, I don't think the government has the right to tell people they can't pray (in school, in their office, in the street etc.) On the other hand, they do have the right to reinforce each individuals choice in doing so. (I mean if you want to pray in class, they shouldn't be able to stop you, or make you pray if you do not want to pray)
joe
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