night street lighting - DPChallenge Forums

05/17/2013 12:00:54 PM · #1

i have a shoot setup next week, something ive been wanting to do myself for sometime. i found a stunning model willing to sit in and do TF with this night shoot.

its going to be in the city after sunset, so its going to be artificial light with the city lights. so a few questions

i'm bringing my flashes and she is bringing a friend who i'm putting to work so lighting the model shouldn't be an issue, but how do I properly expose the background? shoot wide and drag the shutter to let in more ambient and let the flash light her? should i bring my tripod so i dont get camera shake? does she need to hold her pose a bit longer?

i'm use to working in daylight where the ambient isn't an issue.

talk me through this.

05/17/2013 12:05:31 PM · #2

Sounds like you've got the idea.

Drag the shutter to get the ambient, use ISO and aperture to control flash (plus flash level of course)

Model does need to stay still if there are lights/ambient behind her, otherwise, if she's in a dark-zone, you can safely ignore that potential issue.

Tripod is good if you're gonna REALLY drag the shutter.

Another helpful hint: Bring a flashlight, it'll help you focus, which can be tricky in the dark.

05/17/2013 12:05:31 PM · #3

Double post...

I'll use this to add, good luck! And share your results.

Message edited by author 2013-05-17 12:05:59.

05/17/2013 12:15:30 PM · #4

what kind of shutter speeds would we be talking about for dragging?

MarkB

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/17/2013 12:20:51 PM · #5

My google-fu is strong today. This should give you a good starting point.

05/17/2013 12:33:06 PM · #6

thanks guys, i just grabbed a monopod to help with the slower shutters too.

05/17/2013 12:54:55 PM · #7

Originally posted by Mike:

what kind of shutter speeds would we be talking about for dragging?

Whatever it takes to get the ambient you want. ;)

At ISO 8000 and f/1.2 you should be able to keep the shutter speeds at max sync, and still have it look like daylight in the background.

05/17/2013 01:03:18 PM · #8

I was just look at some images on the net and i see that ISO 800 and 1/20 - 1/40 seems to be the preferred range.

05/17/2013 01:08:45 PM · #9

Originally posted by Mike:

I was just look at some images on the net and i see that ISO 800 and 1/20 - 1/40 seems to be the preferred range.

Surely you recognize how useless that is?

This will change, not only with aperture used, but also due to the ambient lighting conditions. I've found that some places at night are wildly bright, and others are surprisingly dark.

My advice is to start out by shooting just the ambient scene, no model. Get that looking 'right' (you want it dark probably, but with some details), then throw in your model and lights. (you can mostly just adjust flash levels to achieve the right exposure here)

:)

Message edited by author 2013-05-17 13:09:02.

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

05/17/2013 01:24:16 PM · #10

well yes that was my intent but its always nice to have a starting point, besides, im bored at work, looking at pictures passes the time.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

05/17/2013 01:28:51 PM · #11

You'll probably figure out the background exposure quickly depending on how strong the street lights are and how much of an effect you are willing to let the background in, but I think a more pressing issue is white balance since street lights and your flashes have different spectrums. Street lamps can emit rather ugly light because their spectrums' are so limited.

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

05/17/2013 01:31:36 PM · #12

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

True.

This is where gels come in darn handy.

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

05/17/2013 01:57:20 PM · #13

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Olyuzi:
You'll probably figure out the background exposure quickly depending on how strong the street lights are and how much of an effect you are willing to let the background in, but I think a more pressing issue is white balance since street lights and your flashes have different spectrums. Street lamps can emit rather ugly light because their spectrums' are so limited.

True.

This is where gels come in darn handy.

This is more what I would be concerned with, as well. You have another option, depending upon the lighting present, the lights/grip you have, and the look you want, which is to use your own lights as subtle "streetlights" using gels to change their color somewhat towards the standard or even just leaving them plain if you want to. Sounds like you'll have a VAL so that can be really useful for doing that, but you can also just attach flashes to stuff above you. If you do that, check your beginning ambient. Then destroy it with your shutter speed (shouldn't be hard to do), but leave yourself enough room on top/below so you can switch it up if you want without getting all the way up to the elevated ones. You'll be guessing on a setting for these and getting up and down to change them might be a pain, so that's why you want some leeway. Then set your other lights after you've established your new artificial ambient. You can simulate a close street light pretty well using an out of frame speedlight on a boom/monopod held by a val.

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

05/17/2013 02:05:31 PM · #14

good advice guys. if do decide to gel what color do i go with for street light, i'm guess it depends on the type and i dont know that.

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

05/17/2013 02:24:58 PM · #15

Originally posted by Mike:

good advice guys. if do decide to gel what color do i go with for street light, i'm guess it depends on the type and i dont know that.

I would say get a CTO color temperature orange which would give skin color a nice warm glow.
Are the city lights going to be just overhead street lamps or will they also be multi-colored neon signs like you would get in Times Square?

spiritualspatula

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

05/17/2013 02:43:47 PM · #16

It depends what type of light scene you want to simulate, like

Olyuzi notes. Sodium lights are orange. Florescent will be green. Also consider the feel you're looking for. Blue light tends to be more cold/edgy feeling and lends a COMPLETELY different feel to a shot.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

05/17/2013 02:58:35 PM · #17

sometimes, it's even fun to just go ungelled, diffuse heavily, and light an area around your model, then leave the color balance alone. You'll get all the wonderful colors of the street lights, while having a normal colored model.

The next step is to screw around with gelling the light with crazy colors and seeing what you get.

BTW: RAW is your friend. (you knew that though, I'm sure)

ETA: I did this with two ungelled speedlights, you'll notice that the color in the background is fairly yellow on the edges of the sun. I like the look though, so YMMV.

Not quite the same as night shooting, but really, the idea of color balance carries through.

Message edited by author 2013-05-17 15:01:12.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

05/17/2013 07:23:22 PM · #18

How far away is the spot you are going to be shooting in? Why not go there and get everything squared away before the night you plan on doing the shoot? Nothing kills the buzz of working with a model like fiddling with the camera and the lights for half an hour.

Also, why not shoot off a tripod? I much prefer not being behind the camera but out shifting lights and watching for things to correct which I find much easier with the camera on a tripod and a remote release in hand.

Around here most lights are sodium vapor, but the big buildings are lit with fluorescent so you have blue green and red orange and get to pick which one you want to work with or against. Here is a nice Strobist article on gelling for fluorescent and mixed lights

Olyuzi

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

05/17/2013 11:52:20 PM · #19

If you decide to gel your speedlights don't forget to set the white balance on your camera to get the effect you're after. For instance, if what you want is consistent lighting throughout you should gel your lights with the same color temperature as the street lights are and then set the WB on your camera to match that. This will assure that all the lights are being recorded as white light. Of course, if you shoot RAW, you can change the WB in post so even if you forget to make the camera WB setting, as

Cory said, "RAW is your friend." Gelling your lights differently than the background and yet something else in your WB will get you some edgy results that you may or may not like, but it's where you can get very creative.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

05/22/2013 07:43:57 AM · #20

had the shoot last night. went well, i got some great shots, nothing super spectacular but defientely good enough for both of our ports. so was inexperienced so it was a learning experience for her as much as me.

a few thoughts

1. the street lights weren't an issue, my flashes dominated the area and the background was just nice atmosphere.
2. next time i need to pick a better area, Old city Philadelphia, even on a Tuesday night, has happy hour and the drunks filled the streets at the time of our shoot.
3. i underestimate the amount of postprocesing that will be required. thank god the model had great skin so i wont need to do much there, but lots of stray people, signs not to mention dodging and burning will be required.
4. even with a monopod, dragging your shutter is tough.
5. i think i need a better flash. my yong nuos wont second curtain sync with my 5D, so while i did some nice sharp shots i also got some secondary blur in a lot of shots from the dragging shutter or her moving.

justamistere

Nikon D3s

05/22/2013 09:26:51 PM · #21

If you look here: dpreview Canon EOS-5D Mark II, you'll see that your camera has a White Balance setting in Kelvin temperatures from 2500 - 10000 K. Here is a chart for Color Temperature of Lighting Sodium vapor lamps may be about 2700 K and Mercury Vapor might be about 4000 - 4300 K.

First just take several shot of the background, varying the Kelven White Balance color temperature setting, and experiment to get the affect you want.

05/23/2013 07:48:29 AM · #22

have you ever finished a shoot and felt it went well but still felt uneasy that you screwed something up? then you look at the images and you are floored how fantastic they turned out. this was that shoot.

no showing yet as i may enter one in a free study. I am definitely doing a shoot like this again.