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03/19/2012 07:59:41 PM · #1 |
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03/19/2012 07:52:24 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
My friend was paying his loans and called to ask about his rate and they said it was at 23%. |
It does amaze me to see this sort of interest rate. These days when we so many legislators making law based on what it says in the bible, yet no one seems to mind that usury (and they meant charging ANY interest, let alone loanshark levels) is forbidden.
Exodus 22:25 If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.
Psalm 15:5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.
Proverbs 28:8 He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor.
Ezekiel 22:12 In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord GOD.
Lateran III decreed that persons who accepted interest on loans could receive neither the sacraments nor Christian burial. Pope Clement V made the belief in the right to usury a heresy in 1311, and abolished all secular legislation which allowed it. Pope Sixtus V condemned the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity."
Charging interest on loans became the norm after the enlightenment but usury laws always governed the upper limit of what was a reasonable rate of return. After 1776 All of the States in the Union adopt a general usury. Most states set the interest limit at 6%.
But lately the SCOTUS has said that the only limitation on interest rates are the state's limits on limiting them. In 1980, because of inflation, Congress passed the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act to exempt federally chartered savings banks, installment plan sellers and chartered loan companies from state usury limits. This effectively overrode all state and local usury laws. The 1968 Truth in Lending Act does not regulate rates, except for some mortgages, but requires uniform or standardized disclosure of costs and charges.
In the 1996 Smiley v. Citibank case, the Supreme Court further limited states' power to regulate credit card fees and extended the reach of the Marquette decision. The court held that the word "interest" used in the 1863 banking law included fees and, therefore, states could not regulate fees.
It seems religion in not a limit on what business is allowed to do in the marketplace, yet religion is a limit on what people are allowed to do in their homes. There ought to be a law. |
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03/19/2012 06:31:50 PM · #3 |
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03/15/2012 05:21:31 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
As much as I detest my student loans (and I have a lot), you have to remember they are unsecured loans. There is no collateral. The only other common loan of that type is credit card loans and student loan interest rates are quite nice compared to typical credit card rates.
My loans are locked in at 2.75%. You really can't say that's a bad deal. (but I still hate them) |
Monica was talking about interest of 25 percent. Is that accurate? |
My friend was paying his loans and called to ask about his rate and they said it was at 23%. So he got them to lower it because of his income or I'm not sure what to a more reasonable rate.
His father is a cosigner and he wants to get his dad off the loan. He can do that if he pays steady for 2 years. OK cool, he has done that already. Now they tell him that's only if he's paying the full interest rate. It doesn't count if he's paying the "reduced rate".
Come on mousey mousey. That's right. Cat's making the rules.
I have another friend that just stopped paying his loans entirely, so long that they went to collection agencies. He moved around a lot and they lost track of him. But then he had a steady, tax-paying job for 3 or 4 years and they still didn't track him down. His wealthy grandma paid one off (why didn't she just pay for his college then and skip the nonsense?) and went to pay the other off and they LOST it. They couldn't locate the loan, didn't know who they had sold it off to.
Shit show? Yea... but also, he lucked out now didn't he? So far. :P |
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03/15/2012 02:28:28 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Become permanently disabled or die. |
Well there ya go. It's not like the gov't didn't leave you any alternatives. :P |
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03/15/2012 12:01:24 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Monica was talking about interest of 25 percent. Is that accurate? |
Just ten years ago, private loans accounted for only 4 percent of the student loan industry. Today, these loans account for 20 percent of the volume.
The increase is phenomenal mainly because it is typically cheaper to get a loan direct from the government versus a private loan. The interest rate that some private lenders charge can be astronomical-the top allowable rate is 18 percent.
The Obama administration is trying to reign in some of the grosser excesses, particularly from some recently started private schools who prey on government guarantees.
I was saddened to see Senator Olympia Snow of Maine recently retire, since she was a good middle of the road Senator. Then I found out one reason she might be leaving. Her Husband's been running this scam.
" Former Maine Gov. John McKernan Jr., have investments worth between $2 million and $10 million in Education Management Corp., a Pittsburgh-based company that operates for-profit higher education institutions. McKernan is chairman of the board of directors of the company, now embroiled in a lawsuit in which the federal goverment, 11 states and the District of Columbia are seeking to recover a portion of the $11 billion in federal student aid that the education firm has received since July 2003." Penalties could be double the amount found recoverable to a nice round $33 Billion.
Message edited by author 2012-03-15 00:02:43. |
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03/14/2012 11:43:41 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
As much as I detest my student loans (and I have a lot), you have to remember they are unsecured loans. There is no collateral. The only other common loan of that type is credit card loans and student loan interest rates are quite nice compared to typical credit card rates.
My loans are locked in at 2.75%. You really can't say that's a bad deal. (but I still hate them) |
Monica was talking about interest of 25 percent. Is that accurate? |
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03/14/2012 11:05:26 PM · #8 |
As much as I detest my student loans (and I have a lot), you have to remember they are unsecured loans. There is no collateral. The only other common loan of that type is credit card loans and student loan interest rates are quite nice compared to typical credit card rates.
My loans are locked in at 2.75%. You really can't say that's a bad deal. (but I still hate them) |
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03/14/2012 10:51:02 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by Kelli:
The thing with the student loans is you can't get out of paying them. You can't bankrupt them. If you go in default they attach your bank accounts, your paycheck and take any and all refunds for taxes. There are only 2 ways to get out of paying student loans. Become permanently disabled or die. |
Can you refinance a student loan? |
I don't know. But you can consolidate them and lower payments that way. There are still options for reducing what you pay, based on income. It's been a few years since I've dealt with them though and there might be more up to date information. |
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03/14/2012 10:44:27 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
The thing with the student loans is you can't get out of paying them. You can't bankrupt them. If you go in default they attach your bank accounts, your paycheck and take any and all refunds for taxes. There are only 2 ways to get out of paying student loans. Become permanently disabled or die. |
Can you refinance a student loan?
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03/14/2012 10:29:03 PM · #11 |
| The thing with the student loans is you can't get out of paying them. You can't bankrupt them. If you go in default they attach your bank accounts, your paycheck and take any and all refunds for taxes. There are only 2 ways to get out of paying student loans. Become permanently disabled or die. |
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03/14/2012 06:44:41 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Hmmm... ok so it doesn't get added to the US debt directly but... that's money the banks can loan out at no cost the them, but a tremendous cost the the borrow paying high interest rates on fabricated money that was pulled out of some FED worker's anus.
Got it. Again I say, and I'm crazy for thinking people shouldn't pay back their student loans? (I've had friends act like I was immoral for thinking this and I don't get it.)
It's all a giant scam. It's the banks giving the public practically counterfeit money that no one worked hard for, and there is no backing for, and then the public pays it back with money they actually worked for and never pay it off with interest rates upwards of 25%. Free, thin air money in a lump sum paid to young students who don't see much other choice, paid back in increments for the rest of their lives. The banks don't WANT the money paid off. They want that steady income, forever. They earn a lot more if you just keep paying, paying, paying interest adding up.
Does that not sound like indentured servitude to anyone? |
I agree with you about the student loans. One of these days I'll have to read up on how the system changed so radically since I was in school, when interest rates on student loans were 3 percent and you had forever to pay it back (and could suspend payments if you were unemployed). In any event, there will be massive defaults if some reforms aren't undertaken. I believe Obama is supporting legislation that would put a cap on the amount that can be collected from student loan debt, the capped amount being dependent on the individual's income, regardless of what's owed and regardless of the interest rate. That might help some.
And, of course, I'm in complete sympathy with Bernie Sanders' criticisms of the bailouts with respect to the fact that the Fed, and the government, moved heaven and earth to save the banks, institutions operating on such a corrupt level that it's still difficult to wrap your mind around just how bad the corruption was, and bailed them out with virtually no strings attached... and what was done for the little guy who was scammed and defrauded and in many cases whose meager wealth was wiped out entirely? The answer is, unfortunately, very little. In my opinion, this has been the biggest failing of the Obama administration... not that any Republican administration would have done better. But still, I expected more from Obama. |
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03/14/2012 01:53:26 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Hmmm... ok so it doesn't get added to the US debt directly but... that's money the banks can loan out at no cost the them, but a tremendous cost the the borrow paying high interest rates on fabricated money that was pulled out of some FED worker's anus.
Got it. Again I say, and I'm crazy for thinking people shouldn't pay back their student loans? (I've had friends act like I was immoral for thinking this and I don't get it.) |
Just another example of the authority complex at work. Just call yourself a corporation and then your friends won't call you immoral. Not only that but you'll also get to keep more of your money on the taxes you don't pay which you could then put towards your loans. However, that's being too responsible. Now that you're a corporation you're expected to have more debt than equity so just pocket the money and be proud about it. |
It's even more frustrating because if you mention that you get the "2 wrongs don't make a right" response (cus we're 5 and the world is that simple) or even better "I knew what I was getting into with my student loans. I made the commitment, now I have to pay it back."
Like an 18 year old really has any idea what 50 grand looks and feels like when it starts coming out of their pay years later at 23% interest. It's all hypothetical at that age. And that's exactly what the loan companies count on. Most who take on student loans are still children in mind.
I really lucked out that Florida, at least when I went to school, had great scholarships and grants. I knew not to get into debt, and had the opportunity to educate myself without loans. I consider myself very lucky. Most of my friends were not as lucky. I'd love to see all of their debt disappear. And with this magical money being thrown around, it very well could. |
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03/14/2012 01:30:24 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Hmmm... ok so it doesn't get added to the US debt directly but... that's money the banks can loan out at no cost the them, but a tremendous cost the the borrow paying high interest rates on fabricated money that was pulled out of some FED worker's anus.
Got it. Again I say, and I'm crazy for thinking people shouldn't pay back their student loans? (I've had friends act like I was immoral for thinking this and I don't get it.) |
Just another example of the authority complex at work. Just call yourself a corporation and then your friends won't call you immoral. Not only that but you'll also get to keep more of your money on the taxes you don't pay which you could then put towards your loans. However, that's being too responsible. Now that you're a corporation you're expected to have more debt than equity so just pocket the money and be proud about it.
Message edited by author 2012-03-14 01:32:14.
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03/13/2012 11:22:57 PM · #15 |
Hmmm... ok so it doesn't get added to the US debt directly but... that's money the banks can loan out at no cost the them, but a tremendous cost the the borrow paying high interest rates on fabricated money that was pulled out of some FED worker's anus.
Got it. Again I say, and I'm crazy for thinking people shouldn't pay back their student loans? (I've had friends act like I was immoral for thinking this and I don't get it.)
It's all a giant scam. It's the banks giving the public practically counterfeit money that no one worked hard for, and there is no backing for, and then the public pays it back with money they actually worked for and never pay it off with interest rates upwards of 25%. Free, thin air money in a lump sum paid to young students who don't see much other choice, paid back in increments for the rest of their lives. The banks don't WANT the money paid off. They want that steady income, forever. They earn a lot more if you just keep paying, paying, paying interest adding up.
Does that not sound like indentured servitude to anyone?
Message edited by author 2012-03-13 23:25:01. |
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03/13/2012 04:10:28 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The fed buying treasuries is exactly the same as the fed printing money out of thin air (which is the Fed's job). But it's never been done at this level before. It's called "quantitative easing" and essentially they are debasing the value of the dollar. |
Are you responding to my last post? |
Not directly. I'm not disagreeing with you, just phrasing it in another way how it's "different" than the US buying Treasuries when there are other buyers. |
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03/13/2012 03:40:08 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The fed buying treasuries is exactly the same as the fed printing money out of thin air (which is the Fed's job). But it's never been done at this level before. It's called "quantitative easing" and essentially they are debasing the value of the dollar. |
Are you responding to my last post? |
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03/13/2012 01:32:21 PM · #18 |
| The fed buying treasuries is exactly the same as the fed printing money out of thin air (which is the Fed's job). But it's never been done at this level before. It's called "quantitative easing" and essentially they are debasing the value of the dollar. |
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03/12/2012 10:44:25 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Yea you are missing where the true problem lies. The FED.
You seem outraged by this but where were you for this thread?
16 Trillion in Secret Bank Bailouts
The president only has a certain amount of say to push one way or the other. The real people in control are working behind the scenes and putting on the pressure. In other words, Democrat or Republican, we're going to see the debt continue to skyrocket unless we make some fundamental changes in the way our system works, and root out corruption. |
I was against the bailouts...everything from fannie/freddie to banks to auto bailouts. I don't believe in too big to fail. |
Sigh. This is not the official bailout. The official bailouts I believe were somewhere in the billions. These secret bailouts were in the TRILLIONS and NOT the decision of the govt. |
Yes, but the $16 trillion doesn't get added to the U.S. debt. The Fed doesn't have the authority to borrow money. It buys and sells the debt that is already out there in the form of U.S. Treasuries. This was a bailout but not exactly the same as the other bailouts. The debt right now I believe is about $15 trillion total, so if another $16 trillion had been added to it, you can see that it would be around $30 trillion. |
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03/03/2012 09:19:15 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
Originally posted by mike_311:
the bailout should have been market adjusting all the houses.
instead of giving the banks the money the feds should have given the money to the people. my mortgage is only slightly under water. but the value of my home is down nearly 65% from when i bought it as with every home in my town.
the feds should have given me say $10 or $20 thousand to use to pay down my principle and EVERYONE els, basically a percentage of their decreased home value, the banks should have eaten a loss of a certain percentage too. this would have brought the mortgage back more the their actual values. it would have erased the astronomical home value growth that occurred over the past decade, and rightly so, since it never should have occurred.
i bought my house for more than it was worth but i also sold my last home for more than it was worth. i can afford my mortgage, but i cant sell my house if i wanted to.
we also need to throw some of the crooks that presided over the collapse to actually serve time. |
i really like this idea! |
Sure you do, but how does it help the 1%?
They don't care how many people go homeless or starve. Money, money, money. |
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03/03/2012 04:15:56 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
the bailout should have been market adjusting all the houses.
instead of giving the banks the money the feds should have given the money to the people. my mortgage is only slightly under water. but the value of my home is down nearly 65% from when i bought it as with every home in my town.
the feds should have given me say $10 or $20 thousand to use to pay down my principle and EVERYONE els, basically a percentage of their decreased home value, the banks should have eaten a loss of a certain percentage too. this would have brought the mortgage back more the their actual values. it would have erased the astronomical home value growth that occurred over the past decade, and rightly so, since it never should have occurred.
i bought my house for more than it was worth but i also sold my last home for more than it was worth. i can afford my mortgage, but i cant sell my house if i wanted to.
we also need to throw some of the crooks that presided over the collapse to actually serve time. |
i really like this idea!
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03/03/2012 04:02:47 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by yanko:
... If only Obama didn't go around trying to be half pregnant with his ideas he would be a great president. |
He could always propose a colony on the moon...oh wait, that has already been proposed.
Trust me, there are enough stupid ideas and comments to go around.
Ray |
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03/03/2012 03:55:11 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Osama is dead, and GM is alive. Under McCain/Palin-don't want to speculate. |
What are you trying to say here?
I could go for GM being dead too. |
your not making sense. |
Seems like she's saying GM isn't exactly a good thing. Preserving the jobs is preferable to losing them, but the company itself is no more beneficial to society than Halliburton or Goldman Sachs. When the auto industry was on its knees and Cash for Clunkers was in effect, I thought that might be a good opportunity to get a small, fuel efficient car for a daily runabout. None of the Detroit automakers offered anything appealing in that category. Chrysler didn't even make a car that topped 25mpg city... and they still don't. |
But, but it's American! Where's your patriotic spirit?
*sarcasm off* If only Obama didn't go around trying to be half pregnant with his ideas he would be a great president. |
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03/03/2012 12:08:21 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Osama is dead, and GM is alive. Under McCain/Palin-don't want to speculate. |
What are you trying to say here?
I could go for GM being dead too. |
your not making sense. |
Seems like she's saying GM isn't exactly a good thing. Preserving the jobs is preferable to losing them, but the company itself is no more beneficial to society than Halliburton or Goldman Sachs. When the auto industry was on its knees and Cash for Clunkers was in effect, I thought that might be a good opportunity to get a small, fuel efficient car for a daily runabout. None of the Detroit automakers offered anything appealing in that category. Chrysler didn't even make a car that topped 25mpg city... and they still don't. |
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03/03/2012 11:49:54 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Osama is dead, and GM is alive. Under McCain/Palin-don't want to speculate. |
What are you trying to say here?
I could go for GM being dead too. |
your not making sense. |
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