Scores in Full-Length - DPChallenge Forums

04/21/2010 06:04:28 PM · #26

Originally posted by chromeydome:

Full-Length Studio Shot: Take a full-length photo of a person posed in such a way that they could use it as part of their portfolio presentation to a modeling agency.

A model goes to a studio for some full-length shots to add to his/her portfolio for modeling agency review.

A model goes to a studio for some full-length shots to add to his/her portfolio for modeling agency review.

In the most narrow-minded definition possible of the word "studio" one could insist that this is a structure, a physical space used only for photography.

In the real world of fashion/model/portfolio/agency photography, the studio is the business, the operation: a photographer has a studio, or they work for or shoot on behalf of a studio, etc. As for the Studio: they can shoot indoors in a space at the studio, indoors in some other venue, outdoors, underwater, whatever. A fair number of photographers I know who really do this work for a living go up on the roof of their building, or another, go out on location, etc. And every model portfolio I have seen includes full length shots from both indoors and outdoors, from inside studios and from inside other locations. Often, these are natural light only shots, as well. So no requirement for studio strobes, either.

So, if one chooses to be so narrow-minded about it, then only shots taken inside actual photography studios would qualify--so shots in dramatic hotels, theatres, clubs, other venues, even if indoors, would be off limits. Certainly, shots in your living room, attic, garage, etc. would be questionable. Just because the shot is taken indoors does not mean it is a studio, either....

And, since I doubt that DPC intended to limit this challenge to only those members with access to a formal, indoor photography studio, the spirit of the challenge is surely more open than than dnmc police would have us think.

However, a more real world reading of "studio" as the entity, the operation, that produces the portfolio image opens things up quite a bit.

[my entry was in a studio, anyway, so I am not taking this stance for myself. If anyone fell prey to the dnmc police definition of studio, please feel free to go back and raise your votes on my competitors' entries! :-) ]

I said what my narrow mind felt... however I gave some decent scores to some great outdoor photos too. Others I did not.

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

04/21/2010 06:12:23 PM · #27

Originally posted by chromeydome:

However, a more real world reading of "studio" as the entity, the operation, that produces the portfolio image opens things up quite a bit.

So why even include the word "Studio" in the challenge definition. I would much have preferred Take a full-length photo of a person posed in such a way that they could use it as part of their portfolio presentation to a modeling agency but assumed that including the word studio had some significance. And, since I know you do shoot in this area, would you give a client a photo of a model against a tree in a field if they told you they wanted a studio image for a magazine cover?

I didn't give any 1's for DNMC, but I am a bit frustrated that I constrained myself to shooting in the studio when it really wasn't necessary.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/21/2010 06:18:22 PM · #28

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

Originally posted by chromeydome:

However, a more real world reading of "studio" as the entity, the operation, that produces the portfolio image opens things up quite a bit.

So why even include the word "Studio" in the challenge definition. I would much have preferred Take a full-length photo of a person posed in such a way that they could use it as part of their portfolio presentation to a modeling agency but assumed that including the word studio had some significance. And, since I know you do shoot in this area, would you give a client a photo of a model against a tree in a field if they told you they wanted a studio image for a magazine cover?

I didn't give any 1's for DNMC, but I am a bit frustrated that I constrained myself to shooting in the studio when it really wasn't necessary.

I agree I too shot indoors as I felt the word studio was pretty indicative that they wanted an indoor shot. Otherwise, leave out the word studio and just say full length human portrait. I am not voting but I feel the same way as you do.

Message edited by author 2010-04-21 18:20:33.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

04/21/2010 06:50:24 PM · #29

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

I suspect that if a client was asking me for a magazine cover shot, both I and they would get very specific about what was needed. :-))))

In this case, the only real detail given was a "full-length photo of a person posed in such a way that they could use it as part of their portfolio presentation to a modeling agency." I think the italicized portion is likely to be the discriminator on the top ten....

For me, the word "studio" did not constrain to indoors, much less to an indoor studio. I took it as a "look and feel" of the resulting image sorta thing: model portfolio images for agency interviews have a certain look and feel, an intent and fulfillment of purpose to them. I doubt any models put iphone shots from their backyard in their portfolios, but I know some "studio" photographers who have taken fantastic portfolio shots of models in backyards.

I think the narrowness issue of the word studio is very limiting, and hard to discern in some cases, anyway. Hang a backdrop, unroll some seamless in a garage, living room, backyard, alley, parking lot, etc.: is that then a "studio"? If not, is it a dnmc? How would one know unless told?

For me, the more concrete criteria are:
--full length
--posed in such a way
--could use as part of a portfolio presentation to modeling agency

I agree that if indoor shots were requested, specified, then an obviously outdoor shot would be inappropriate. But indoors can be made to look like outdoors, outdoors can be made to look indoors: and a roll of seamless doesn't tell you where you are at all :-)

If (i wish) owned my own studio in a very photogenic building and neighborhood, and a model came to my studio for some full length portfolio shots, would taking my lights outside and shooting her with the wall of my studio building as a backdrop be "not a studio shot"? If I took her anywhere an put up a roll of seamless, how would you know?

I think in this challenge, "studio" was not clearly defined (recent challenges have been specific: "natural light, indoors") so trying to judge the images on that basis is difficult, and it would be hard to be certain in many cases, in any event. I got lucky: I just so happened to be shooting IN a studio with a model, happened to do some full length, without knowing about the challenge. You might not be certain whether I was in a studio or in some other location, though.... Just being indoors does not guarantee it was a "studio" either, as I mentioned. And my scores are not going to put me in the top ten anyway :-)

Those of us with access to "actual" studios are more likely to read the word studio and think that is where we need to go. And though it might be a constraint for us, it is a doable thing. Others have no such access, but can hang a backdrop, find a wall or other interesting background, and do a super shot.

It just comes down to interpretation: if "studio" is defined as a physical, indoor space for photography, that is one thing. If "studio" means the entity or operation that produces portfolio images for models, then I think the indoor/outdoor question has less value.

And, for the record, I do not consider having shot indoors in a studio for this challenge to be narrow. I think it is a narrow definition to apply when voting on the challenge.

Message edited by author 2010-04-21 19:35:29.

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/21/2010 08:09:50 PM · #30

I won't quote the whole discussion between chromeydome and myself because reading our words once is probably more than enough. I do agree that the definition left room for interpretation and I probably constrained myself unnecessarily. In the interest of education, I do want to continue the discussion through at least one more iteration.

For me a studio is a shooting space where I have control of every aspect of the lighting. If I am working in situations were I don't have absolute control of my light, I would say I am shooting on location. But, I'm still learning and the categorization my be completely within my own head.

To be honest, I didn't bash anybody for DNMC as there was one image captured outdoors the I could not bear to mark down, so I removed the criterial for all of my voting.

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

04/21/2010 09:30:37 PM · #31

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

One photographer's 'constraint' may be another photographer's dream, by the way :-)

So, this is not one of those "snarky" dictionary posts, but a sincere conversation: found some definitions at various online sources via a google search. italics are the cut/paste definitions, boldface added by me as relevant to this conversation

studio
1 a room where an artist, photographer, sculptor, etc., works.
â�¢ a place where performers, esp. dancers, practice and exercise.
â�¢ a room where musical or sound recordings can be made.
â�¢ a room from which television or radio programs are broadcast, or in which they are recorded.
â�¢ a place where movies are made or produced.
2 a film or television production company.
3 a studio apartment.

An artist's workroom.
A photographer's establishment.
An establishment where an art is taught or studied: a dance studio.
A room, building, or group of buildings where movies, television shows, or radio programs are produced.
A room or building where tapes and records are produced.
A company that produces films.
A studio apartment.

A studio is an artist's or worker's workroom, or an artist and his or her employees who work within that studio. This can be for the purpose of architecture, painting, pottery (ceramics), sculpture, scrapbooking, photography, graphic design, cinematography, animation, radio or television broadcasting or the making of music. The term is also used for the workroom of dancers, often specified to dance studio.

A photographic studio is both a workspace and a corporate body. As a workspace it is much like an artistâ��s studio, but providing space to take, develop, print and duplicate photographs. Photographic training and the display of finished photographs may also be accommodated in a photographic studio. Accordingly, the workspace may possess a darkroom, storage space, a studio proper - where photographs are taken, and a display room, as well as space for other related work.

As a corporate entity, a photographic studio is a business owned and represented by one or more photographers, possibly accompanied by assistants and pupils, who create and sell their own and sometimes othersâ�� photographs.

So there are some different perspectives on the nature of "studio". Yours is clearly correct, sir. There are also other correct meanings, interpretations. Room and/or Place, for example. Workspace and/or Establishment and/or Business/Company.

Context and perpective certainly affect which definition rings most true: for me, in general, studio work means being indoors out of the Seattle rain, with controlled lighting most of the time. Other times it means being indoors, using available window light, but still out of the rain :-) Other times it means taking a team and equipment from the studio out on location, as you noted. Once the context of the studio as an establishment or business is applied, the studio is performing the location shoot, so it can still be thought of as a studio shoot. A film studio has indoor and outdoor sets. One studio I work with has a nice patio area for shoots.

For me, in this particular instance, with the description provided and my personal experience filters in the way, uh, er, contributing, yes, let's say contributing to my interpretation I took it this way: portfolio images for a model to use for a agency interview session suggested to me the studio as an establishment/place to begin--from that point, the studio is involved in the shoot, whether indoor or out. In that context, I saw the studio more as an establishment than a room. I have been fortunate enough to have more than one studio available for rental/use near me, so that clearly flavored my interpretation. I can certainly see the "indoor photographic space with controlled lighting" definition as valid, too. As it so happens, that is probably 75-80% of what "studio work" means in my own work.

My only "concern" was with constraining the voting criterion to only one definition of studio. Choosing one definition as a part of creating the image in the first place is necessary--you have to know where to meet your model. :-) And whether to bring umbrellas for both lighting and rain :-)

Message edited by author 2010-04-21 21:31:24.

04/21/2010 10:20:38 PM · #32

ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

any scores? :)

bspurgeon

Fujifilm x100

04/21/2010 10:41:05 PM · #33

See the private DPL threads... ;)

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

04/21/2010 10:49:13 PM · #34

Originally posted by bspurgeon:

See the private DPL threads... ;)

I keep trying, but they won't let me in!

amateurboi

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

04/22/2010 04:22:20 AM · #35

I'm at 4.3. sad

bspurgeon

Fujifilm x100

04/22/2010 10:29:57 AM · #36

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by bspurgeon:
See the private DPL threads... ;)

I keep trying, but they won't let me in!

Try breaking down the door!

bspurgeon

Fujifilm x100

04/22/2010 10:30:54 AM · #37

FWIW,
You have rated 81 of 82 images (99%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.7160

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

04/22/2010 10:51:37 AM · #38

Originally posted by bspurgeon:

FWIW,
You have rated 81 of 82 images (99%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.7160

You have rated 82 of 83 images (99%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.4146.

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

04/22/2010 11:18:45 AM · #39

If I say to you, "meet me at my studio on the corner of Main and 3rd", are you not going to assume that I'm talking about an indoor space? Are most people not going to be surprised to find out we're shooting outside in an empty lot?

I'm not voting in the challenge but I hardly think it's narrow minded to assume that a studio is indoors. I'd hate to show up in my tux for prom pictures in your "studio" to find out that we're shooting in a muddy field.

04/22/2010 11:45:08 AM · #40

Originally posted by Phil:

Very valid - I think when you say 'studio' to someone they assume indoors. Kind of when they say "We shot in studio" or "We shot on location" (that could be at a hotel lobby indoors or outside typically with a background depicting the locale). Oh well, the debate will rage on time and again.

Message edited by author 2010-04-22 11:49:10.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/22/2010 11:45:30 AM · #41

Originally posted by Phil:

Correct... that's the difference between "Plain-speak" and "Lawyer-Speak". The whole definition of "IS", etc.

McCarlie

04/22/2010 12:22:01 PM · #42

I guess I am in a good mood. I was quite generous with my voting...

You have rated 83 of 83 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 4 images (5%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 6.1566.

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

04/22/2010 12:31:41 PM · #43

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:

Very valid - I think when you say 'studio' to someone they assume indoors.

What if it's not a very good studio?

chromeydome

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/22/2010 02:14:33 PM · #44

I didn't say it was a narrow definition of studio--I said it was a narrow definition for judging this particular challenge. We can't know that a shot was done in a studio simply because it appears to have been shot indoors.

04/22/2010 02:25:11 PM · #45

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Very valid - I think when you say 'studio' to someone they assume indoors.

What if it's not a very good studio?

How did you find my signs?

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

04/22/2010 02:27:02 PM · #46

Originally posted by chromeydome:

No but I think making it 'look' like it was done in a studio is the affect most were thinking the challenge asked for. Whether or not that is actually where it was shot doesn't really matter, it is the perception.

Message edited by author 2010-04-22 14:40:26.

Phil

Canon EOS-7D

04/22/2010 02:29:16 PM · #47

Originally posted by chromeydome:

I certainly agree; however, if it's obvious that it was done outdoors we can assume that it wasn't done in a studio - well, the tradional meaning of the word studio .

amateurboi

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

04/26/2010 11:52:03 AM · #48

haven't seen any scores in this 'post your scores' thread.

I suck at these

Votes: 251
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Avg Vote: 4.5737
Comments: 5