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03/22/2010 04:57:39 PM · #101 |
Originally posted by coryboehne: So I really do beg of all of you, find a way to be OOB while avoiding the need for a rationalization of how your entry meets the challenge, there is a very real sociological reason behind this.. |
Well, Cory, I do understand your point, I know where you're coming from, but it seems unnecessarily limiting to me. One man's "rationalization" is another man's "creativity", and it's not as if a stock entry is in any way invalidated or cheapened by OOB approaches. And for every player who takes the challenge topic as a magazine editor's or art director's assignment (the "commercial" approach), there's another player who takes the same topic as a springboard, a starting point, from which to leap into the deep end of the creative pool (the "artistic" approach). It's all photography, it's just different ways of seeing the world.
I don't see why either side should be annoyed by the other, and I especially don't see why the "commercial" side should get so torqued because some of the players go all crazy-creative on them. I mean, c'mon, the slick, commercial stuff already wins almost all the ribbons; what does it matter if some out-of-control, anarchist artist types want to express their different POV?
R. |
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03/22/2010 05:06:45 PM · #102 |
personally I'm neutral on this topic but should we consider the effect on visitors or newcomers to the site. For example: something caused the person to write this comment at the bottom of this page |
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03/22/2010 05:11:30 PM · #103 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music: Originally posted by coryboehne: So I really do beg of all of you, find a way to be OOB while avoiding the need for a rationalization of how your entry meets the challenge, there is a very real sociological reason behind this.. |
Well, Cory, I do understand your point, I know where you're coming from, but it seems unnecessarily limiting to me. One man's "rationalization" is another man's "creativity", and it's not as if a stock entry is in any way invalidated or cheapened by OOB approaches. And for every player who takes the challenge topic as a magazine editor's or art director's assignment (the "commercial" approach), there's another player who takes the same topic as a springboard, a starting point, from which to leap into the deep end of the creative pool (the "artistic" approach). It's all photography, it's just different ways of seeing the world.
I don't see why either side should be annoyed by the other, and I especially don't see why the "commercial" side should get so torqued because some of the players go all crazy-creative on them. I mean, c'mon, the slick, commercial stuff already wins almost all the ribbons; what does it matter if some out-of-control, anarchist artist types want to express their different POV?
R. |
Because when you're judging a pie making contest and someone brings you a calzone (after you're sick and tired of blueberry, apple, etc.) it's pretty damned hard to argue that it's not a pie (it is..), but all the other contestants will be grumbling because it will feel like the person cheated.
Next year, a full third of the entries are pizzas, calzones, hotpockets, etc. Now, this isn't really a pie making competition anymore is it? Fine details like a well pleated crust edge, or beautifully laid complex strip patterns on the top of a pie are less likely to be noticed because there is now a "dilution" of the entries.
I know where you are coming from, I understand the need to foster creativity and the love of anarchists (Yes, I do admire the spirit).
But your comment makes it quite clear that you too think a calzone is tasty after so many blueberry pies.. Just consider that this particular action has many worried that the dilution may have started to move from the first tasty calzone that is refreshing to a plethora of pizzas and hotpockets hiding amongst the pies.
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03/22/2010 05:11:52 PM · #104 |
Originally posted by coryboehne: So I really do beg of all of you, find a way to be OOB while avoiding the need for a rationalization of how your entry meets the challenge, there is a very real sociological reason behind this.. |
What if I like me, and I don't want to be just like you? What if I like my interpretation of a challenge? I humbly suggest you try spending a month entering challenges from the other perspective....take the topic, let it grow on you, and come up with something regardless of whether or not you are selling it to a client. What does the topic mean to you, what is the norm or expected, can you twist that in to something interesting? Now, if you want ribbons, this approach won't work that well, at least it's not based on wanting to ribbon. You may occasionally stumble in line with mass appeal, but not frequently. That's my approach. |
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03/22/2010 05:20:06 PM · #105 |
I'm just curious to know...is Quiche Lorraine a pie? |
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03/22/2010 05:21:28 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon: Originally posted by coryboehne: So I really do beg of all of you, find a way to be OOB while avoiding the need for a rationalization of how your entry meets the challenge, there is a very real sociological reason behind this.. |
What if I like me, and I don't want to be just like you? What if I like my interpretation of a challenge? I humbly suggest you try spending a month entering challenges from the other perspective....take the topic, let it grow on you, and come up with something regardless of whether or not you are selling it to a client. What does the topic mean to you, what is the norm or expected, can you twist that in to something interesting? Now, if you want ribbons, this approach won't work that well, at least it's not based on wanting to ribbon. You may occasionally stumble in line with mass appeal, but not frequently. That's my approach. |
Then there are costs to your decision. It's still your decision. |
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03/22/2010 05:23:09 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by hihosilver: I'm just curious to know...is Quiche Lorraine a pie? |
Most recipes I've seen say to start with a pie crust in a pie pan ... |
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03/22/2010 05:24:54 PM · #108 |
Tortieres? Cornish pasties? Ha. Let's have a pie contest and then we'll see what's what!
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03/22/2010 05:28:57 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by hesitant: personally I'm neutral on this topic but should we consider the effect on visitors or newcomers to the site. For example: something caused the person to write this comment at the bottom of this page |
Well, that comment comes across as a load of nonsense really. Lots of people speak their mind on the forum here and often there is quite heated debate but i haven't heard of many people being banned. A few people storming off because they didn't like anothers opinion perhaps. I suspect the commenter may be one of them. |
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03/22/2010 05:32:33 PM · #110 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan: Originally posted by hesitant: personally I'm neutral on this topic but should we consider the effect on visitors or newcomers to the site. For example: something caused the person to write this comment at the bottom of this page |
Well, that comment comes across as a load of nonsense really. Lots of people speak their mind on the forum here and often there is quite heated debate but i haven't heard of many people being banned. A few people storming off because they didn't like anothers opinion perhaps. I suspect the commenter may be one of them. |
There was a case recently if I remember right where someone called out a photographer on editing, and then shorty after was banned for voting practises. I think the ban was reversed but you could see how if it was you, you might come to that opinion. |
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03/22/2010 05:35:44 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by Covert_Oddity: Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan: Originally posted by hesitant: personally I'm neutral on this topic but should we consider the effect on visitors or newcomers to the site. For example: something caused the person to write this comment at the bottom of this page |
Well, that comment comes across as a load of nonsense really. Lots of people speak their mind on the forum here and often there is quite heated debate but i haven't heard of many people being banned. A few people storming off because they didn't like anothers opinion perhaps. I suspect the commenter may be one of them. |
There was a case recently if I remember right where someone called out a photographer on editing, and then shorty after was banned for voting practises. I think the ban was reversed but you could see how if it was you, you might come to that opinion. |
Hum, yes i suppose so. |
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03/22/2010 05:42:22 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by coryboehne: Then there are costs to your decision. It's still your decision. |
...and the costs are what? |
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03/22/2010 05:45:10 PM · #113 |
We need 2 member challenges every week. It would be great to have an OOB option to the 'Products' challenge. Or to the 'Orange II' challenge. Every week. It's as if DPC is saying "You can learn the basics here, but then you must leave. Nothing more to see here. Nothing more to do. Get out the strobe, drop an orange in a fish tank, call it "Orange Splash", collect your virtual ribbon and 15 minutes of virtual fame, and then move along. Keep the line moving." |
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03/22/2010 05:59:48 PM · #114 |
Originally posted by GeneralE: Originally posted by hihosilver: I'm just curious to know...is Quiche Lorraine a pie? |
Most recipes I've seen say to start with a pie crust in a pie pan ... |
Ohhhh...I love a man who cooks! Thanks...;-) |
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03/22/2010 06:02:08 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon: Originally posted by coryboehne: Then there are costs to your decision. It's still your decision. |
...and the costs are what? |
It's evident that the group behind this have not considered anyone else before this challenge started...
What started as a joke by 10% of the submitters has once again resulted in a controversy on DPC. Why?? How many more people are looking on at this thread saying it's time to move on to another site? Good photographers who want to participate in a serious challenge but see this type of behavior...how many people need to be driven away because of sh*t stirring?? I can understand when a person submits something to buck the system but now a whole group? What were they hoping for??
What are the costs? Members and friends...
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03/22/2010 06:13:38 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by kleski: Originally posted by bspurgeon: Originally posted by coryboehne: Then there are costs to your decision. It's still your decision. |
...and the costs are what? |
It's evident that the group behind this have not considered anyone else before this challenge started...
What started as a joke by 10% of the submitters has once again resulted in a controversy on DPC. Why?? How many more people are looking on at this thread saying it's time to move on to another site? Good photographers who want to participate in a serious challenge but see this type of behavior...how many people need to be driven away because of sh*t stirring?? I can understand when a person submits something to buck the system but now a whole group? What were they hoping for??
What are the costs? Members and friends... |
I don't think any of the 10% (i like that....sounds mysterious) have said that it was a joke. People have said it was light hearted and with a sense of fun but thats different. I am pretty sure that people who submitted abstracts did so with the same sense of artistic integrity, photographic skill and love of their work than they would have in any challenge. Besides, as has been stated before, it fits the challenge fine. As to people looking at the thread and deciding to move on, well perhaps, but equally, as has been shown, there have been people who did not feel so threatened by it and even thought it was fun. Swings and roundabouts really. As to sh*t stirring. If after reading everyones comments in this thread you still actually think that was the intent, well, i'm not sure what else to say really.
What are the costs? Members and friends...
Dude, this ain't the Sopranos!
Message edited by author 2010-03-22 18:15:26. |
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03/22/2010 06:15:22 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by hihosilver: Originally posted by GeneralE: Originally posted by hihosilver: I'm just curious to know...is Quiche Lorraine a pie? |
Most recipes I've seen say to start with a pie crust in a pie pan ... |
Ohhhh...I love a man who cooks! Thanks...;-) |
Oh but you do know what they say |
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03/22/2010 06:16:32 PM · #118 |
Wow, everyone just needs to chill out! :)
The people who seem to have participated in the abstract thing are folks that I would class as having high integrity, and I really doubt that this is going to have any negative effect on voting (apart from to their scores).
My entry really is a product shot for a catalog (in the true sense of the challenge description), and this bit of fun doesn't worry me one bit. |
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03/22/2010 06:18:59 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by Lonni: Wow, everyone just needs to chill out! :)
The people who seem to have participated in the abstract thing are folks that I would class as having high integrity, and I really doubt that this is going to have any negative effect on voting (apart from to their scores).
My entry really is a product shot for a catalog (in the true sense of the challenge description), and this bit of fun doesn't worry me one bit. |
I agree but what concerns me more is this discussion about Quiche |
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03/22/2010 06:24:34 PM · #120 |
These sorts of hijinks are not the behavior I've come to expect from a serious website of mature photographers. I'm profoundly offended.
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03/22/2010 06:28:38 PM · #121 |
For the love of God, won't someone please think of the children! |
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03/22/2010 06:34:20 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan: Dude, this ain't the Sopranos! |
But, if you don't want to wake up with the fishes, you should bump the abstracts up a few points...
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03/22/2010 06:41:07 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by Lutchenko: I agree but what concerns me more is this discussion about Quiche |
I'm sorry...I don't know what they say about Quiche and GeneralE answered my question in full on that topic. So, I really don't need any further eduction.
So, thank you for the lesson in valuing my own silence.
I wish you all a happy afternoon! |
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03/22/2010 06:43:29 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by bvy: These sorts of hijinks are not the behavior I've come to expect from a serious website of mature photographers. I'm profoundly offended. |
Hey! Don't bury me. I'm serious! I'm thinking of leaving DPC over this...
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03/22/2010 06:47:21 PM · #125 |
Hmm... I don't recall any artists getting this upset about the unartistic photos in the Fine Arts Challenge. |
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