selling photo to company... ? - DPChallenge Forums

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/11/2010 07:34:08 PM · #1

Hi... I just inquired with a company about selling them a photo I took at their location...

they replied by asking "what type of price are you looking for" and went on to say that they wanted to buy it outright and own the copy write...

they are awaiting my response... I have never done anything like this before...

any advice would be greatly appreciated... thanks!

(does this mean that I can NOT use the pic on my website in my commercial section? (not to sell, but just for my portfolio)... or is that depending on the contract i sign with them when I sell them the photo? (they want the copy write to it so I can no longer sell it...

If anyone wants to see the pic it's here:

CLICK HERE

Thanks!!!

.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

01/11/2010 07:42:52 PM · #2

Nice shot! I wouldn't think they'd have any problem with you displaying the image on your website and in other promotional materials. That should be written into the contract. What the market price would be for the image, in your part of the world, I don't know. Off the top of my head, I'd be thinking $500 maybe, but it sort of depends if the hotel depicted is part of a large corporate chain. That's just a guess on my part. More would be nice. I doubt I'd sell all rights for much less.

R.

01/11/2010 07:53:54 PM · #3

Thanks!

any other suggestions?

I don't want to scare them away as it would REALLY help my portfolio...

Canon RF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS USM

01/11/2010 09:19:12 PM · #4

anybody =)

wolf

Canon EOS R5

01/11/2010 09:34:03 PM · #5

I have no idea regarding $$$. I'm just posting to say nice image Eric :)

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/11/2010 09:36:58 PM · #6

there are a couple different ways to handle situations like this...

one, you just go in throwing numbers around and either you give them a number so low that they're stealing from you, or you give them a number so high you scare them off. sometimes, you're able to get to an agreement this way, but only if both sides are really interested in making something happened and if the opening volleys aren't two extreme.

two, you can sit down and discuss the image, its possible uses, and their budget. sometimes, you might have to educate the client, especially if you're dealing with someone who only knows to ask for your price and 'all the rights'. typically, you will start off with a standard licensing agreement, then customize it as necessary to fit the situation.

as to what to charge, well, that depends its value to the client and to you. you have to keep in mind what you're competing with: are there similar images already available; is it possible for the client to commission the shot from someone else for less than what you want; does the client really need the image? there are times when $500 is too much, and there are times when $5000 is not enough.

you have a really nice image; imagine all the ways they could use it. tradeshow booth display. computer wallpaper. email background. main photo for a brochure. postcards. media kits. large prints for the corporate home office. and on and on. possibilities are endless. so what do you sell it for? the key is to find out what they currently use images for and what they usually pay. you just don't want to give it away...

here's one more thing to consider: bartering. if you can only get so much cash out of them, try to get agreements for intangibles, like a couple weekend stays, or lift passes, or making a room available for some mid-weeks shoots. be creative. you never know what you might get out of it.

good luck!

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

01/11/2010 09:51:26 PM · #7

awesome, thanks!

ok... so lets say that I can't meet them in person at the moment... they are 2 hours from my house... so it has to be email... how do I respond...

do I say

"Hi, well I usually don't sell the copywrites to my images as they tend to become quite profitable in the long run, but in your case I would be willing to make an exception (as long as I am still able have the photo in my online portfolio, not for sale, just as a sample in my portfolio)"

then I could go on to say...

"What is the typical amount of money you would pay for the copy write to an image like this? Considering it's multiple uses as photo for brochure, website, postcards, media kits, large prints for the corporate home office, and on and on."

.

jazzmik

Nikon D300

01/11/2010 10:22:02 PM · #8

you're dealing with a company worth more than $1.6 billion USD. No offense but I don't find what you're planning on writing them to be putting you in the best light. You don't need to tell them why the photo will cost what it does. Tell them that if they want the full copyright it will cost $X.xx Act like a professional and they'll deal with you as a professional.

Personally I would ask for nothing less than $2000. After taxes and expenses and potential lost additional income, you'll probably clear a grand. If they balk, they balk. Their loss.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

01/11/2010 10:31:56 PM · #9

$500 seems very low for buying an image outrite. We had a presentation at the camera club recently and stock images (ones with limited usage) go for around $1000.

If the image isn't much use to someone else then a lower price may be warranted but I wouldn't stop at the bottom. You offered them the image but don't just give it away.

Try one of the pricing calculators available to see what pops out.

Message edited by author 2010-01-11 22:32:32.

Google Glass Google Glass

01/11/2010 10:33:27 PM · #10

hmmm... good points... sooo should i tell them $1000 or $2000 (Cdn)

keep in mind, I really don't want to scare them off...

ambaker

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

01/11/2010 11:18:54 PM · #11

Originally posted by Shutter-For-Hire:

"Hi, well I usually don't sell the copywrites to my images as they tend to become quite profitable in the long run, but in your case I would be willing to make an exception (as long as I am still able have the photo in my online portfolio, not for sale, just as a sample in my portfolio)"

then I could go on to say...

"What is the typical amount of money you would pay for the copy write to an image like this? Considering it's multiple uses as photo for brochure, website, postcards, media kits, large prints for the corporate home office, and on and on."

.

I've noticed you have used the term copy write several times. Unless it is spelled differently in Canada, it is spelled copyright. A small point to be sure, but if you want to appear experienced at this, you need to get this word right.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/11/2010 11:24:26 PM · #12

Originally posted by Shutter-For-Hire:

hmmm... good points... sooo should i tell them $1000 or $2000 (Cdn)

keep in mind, I really don't want to scare them off...

what you do is run over to barnes & nobles and spend an hour or two reading through some books on negotiating...

it's really simple: you either want to make money or you just give stuff away. if you want to make money, you have to learn the basics of sales and negotiation. when you price things well below market, you hurt not just yourself, but other professionals. what's the market price? like mentioned, use a stock calculator to get some baseline prices.

if it's not convenient to get face to face, you'll want to negotiate over the phone. email negotiation is a last resort. the simple truth is that the ultimate value is a direct reflection on your relationship with your clients. build a strong relationship, they will pay you more. build nothing more than a tenuous email relationship, you'll be lucky to even hit the bottom of the pay scale.

sure, sometimes you might have a shot that is so unique that you'll be able to name your own price without having to negotiate at all. but, in the long run, you'll be a lot better off if you play the odds and focus on the relationship side of business.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/11/2010 11:37:07 PM · #13

hahaha... welll I did get a 54% in grade 12 english =)

ok..... so I'm guessing that my next step would be to tell the person that I'd like to discuss the sale of the image over the phone and ask for a contact number?

.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

01/11/2010 11:44:38 PM · #14

Skip is giving good advice here. Really good advice.

I don't want to give you a cookbook, because every situation will differ, but here is what my plan would be if the company truly is a multi-million dollar budget company.

1) Go to Getty Images and look for a rights managed photo of similar subject. (I did this)
2) Use their calculator to find out that for the travel industry and "advertising package" (basically I think they can use it for anything they want in advertising) for one year in the US will run them about $18,000. (no kidding)
3) Email or phone your client and tell them, well, Getty Images is an industry leader for photographic use such as this. They recommend the price for such a deal is about $18,000. Your eyes probably fell out of your head when you read that. Don't worry. Mine did too. However, given that you know what your plans are for the image I thought I'd give you the opportunity to let me know what you think is a fair price. By the way. I always own the copyright, but I CAN sell you an unlimited, exclusive license for commercial use.

Rule #1 in negotiations. Whenever possible, have the other party make the first offer. Whatever they say, you have now set the floor. You are on your own after that.

I used exactly this technique when dealing with the daycare company in Australia and I am happy with the results.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

01/11/2010 11:53:15 PM · #15

Originally posted by Shutter-For-Hire:

ok..... so I'm guessing that my next step would be to tell the person that I'd like to discuss the sale of the image over the phone and ask for a contact number?

i/we can't script this out for you, but yes, the next step would be to email your contact and ask them to call you at their earliest convenience. or maybe you can get the contact number from their website, or maybe just call the company and ask to speak to whomever you've been in contact with.

doc has given you a nice track to run on, but you really should study up on sales & negotiating; otherwise, you're in for a long stay at the school of hard knocks...

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/11/2010 11:54:47 PM · #16

and fully expect this to take....months! I'm serious. Nothing works fast with a big business.

01/12/2010 12:00:19 AM · #17

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

.

Thanks!!!

I just tried this at Getty Images... how did you get $18,000 ? I kept getting around $1000...

I'm in for the long haul... I just sold some pieces to a condo and even that took a couple weeks...

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/12/2010 12:02:51 AM · #18

oooohh... "Flexible Lisence pack..."

I just got it to jump up to $19,000

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

01/12/2010 12:05:25 AM · #19

Originally posted by Shutter-For-Hire:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Skip is giving good advice here. Really good advice.

I don't want to give you a cookbook, because every situation will differ, but here is what my plan would be if the company truly is a multi-million dollar budget company.

1) Go to Getty Images and look for a rights managed photo of similar subject. (I did this)
2) Use their calculator to find out that for the travel industry and "advertising package" (basically I think they can use it for anything they want in advertising) for one year in the US will run them about $18,000. (no kidding)
3) Email or phone your client and tell them, well, Getty Images is an industry leader for photographic use such as this. They recommend the price for such a deal is about $18,000. Your eyes probably fell out of your head when you read that. Don't worry. Mine did too. However, given that you know what your plans are for the image I thought I'd give you the opportunity to let me know what you think is a fair price. By the way. I always own the copyright, but I CAN sell you an unlimited, exclusive license for commercial use.

Rule #1 in negotiations. Whenever possible, have the other party make the first offer. Whatever they say, you have now set the floor. You are on your own after that.

I used exactly this technique when dealing with the daycare company in Australia and I am happy with the results.

.

Thanks!!!

I just tried this at Getty Images... how did you get $18,000 ? I kept getting around $1000...

I'm in for the long haul... I just sold some pieces to a condo and even that took a couple weeks...

I didn't get the same numbers the second time...I got $22,000

Rights Managed
"All advertising pack"
US
Travel/Tourism
1 year

//www.gettyimages.com/Price/PriceRMPopup.aspx?ImageIDs=91800515&CartIDs=&Source=search&BrandIDs=108

01/12/2010 12:06:13 AM · #20

one last thing before I make my next move... the email said that when they purchase photos they like to own them outright, so the photographer is not able to resell the photo...

does this mean that they would not want an exclusive lisence for commercial use?

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/12/2010 12:08:48 AM · #21

maybe someone need to tell me exactly what an exclusive lisence for commercial use is ?

=) sorry.... i'm new to all this...

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

01/12/2010 12:44:52 AM · #22

Originally posted by Shutter-For-Hire:

An exclusive license means that you're not allowed to license it to anyone else for the duration of the license period.

The main difference between them owning the copyright and granting them an exclusive license is that with ownership they would be able to prevent you (and anyone else) from using the image without prior permission. Also, I think you've been discussing/researching an exclusive time-limited (1-year) license -- if they own the copyright it's the equivalent of granting them an exclusive perpetual license to use the photo.

I'd personally prefer to license rather than "sell" a photo, but you could always try to get them to grant you a perpetual, royalty-free license for personal and self-promotional use only if they insist on a sale.

Message edited by author 2010-01-12 00:46:06.

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

01/12/2010 09:52:02 PM · #23

Thanks everyone!

it's in the works... now I play the waiting game =)

one2one

Olympus E-5

01/13/2010 07:04:08 AM · #24

Great job. Beautiful, professional and it grabs attention, as it should. Multiple exposures? ( if not then I'm buying a D90)