point and shoot - DPChallenge Forums

11/10/2009 11:21:06 AM · #1

i know most of you have dslr and, i won't lie, i'm terribly jealous. ;) however, i make do with what i have and that is a sony dsc h5. not a terrible camera but lately i am having a really difficult time pulling off what i intend to create with this camera.

as a new camera is at least as far off as christmas (but likely a bit further as it's my dream to own one of those super fancy canon jobs), i need a bit of advice from anyone who's been able to drag a great performance out of their point and shoot.

images like this one

and this one

are examples of coming close to what i'd like to do without quite making it. how do i counteract the lack of detail that i could get shooting in RAW? i know i can't pull it out of thin air but is there something that i could have done in pp that would give the illusion of crispness?

i'd love some input from you guys about getting a better performance from my sony. help is much appreciated! :)

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

11/10/2009 11:57:36 AM · #2

I've gotten some of my highest scoring images from a similar camera, my Powershot S5, but people shots like that are not my forte. I think you can do it however. Lighting is going to be they key thing. (It always is!) I'm a lighting newb myself, so I will leave that to others.

As far as the camera itself, use the lowest possible ISO. Compacts are notorious for noise, but at low ISO you can get comparable looking results if you are not cropping closely. A modest amount of noise reduction could help, but don't take it too far, or you will kill detail.

I think the key may be to not try to do what the camera can't, but instead to play to it's strengths. You just are not going to get those pin-sharp noise free shots with a compact. There is a contact of mine on Flickr who has done some wonderful self portraits with a compact before she got an SLR. (Her hubby bought her a nice one, too!) She went for creative style, rather than trying to achieve tack sharp perfection. I'll send you a link if you are interested.

The sharp face and soft shoulders is going to be harder to obtain with a compact, as the physics of the small sensor and shorter focal length will naturally create a deeper depth of field. Try a somewhat wide aperture and step back a bit and zoom in. That can create a shallower DOF, but you may have to experiment to see what you can get from it.

BTW, your two examples above are pretty darn good IMO and a lot better than any creative portraiture I have done. Actually, I thought they were examples of what you were trying to achieve until I noticed they were your own. I think you actually need to give me some tips.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

11/10/2009 12:05:26 PM · #3

I don't think you should be all that envious of DSLRs. I have probably used more digital cameras by now than I have pictures I can be proud of. I come away from it feeling that each of them had its own character and edge. There are a number of shots I have taken with a Sony DSC-717, I have never been able to replicate with a DSLR. It was a wonderful camera, I should have never sold.

I actually went out and bought a point and shoot, because I wanted something a little less bulky and feature-ridden, that would not get in the way of taken pictures ad hoc, unobtrusively and also more intuitively. What you do net get with a p & s are large file sizes (for the purpose of producing large prints). Some of the greatest photographers who ever lived never made a single large print. Another thing you won't ever get with a p & s, are very clean, noiseless images, unless, of course, taken in perfect light. Given these two restrictions, there's still plenty of room for all kinds of photography. If you can't shoot RAW, you can still open and edit JPGs in CameraRAW. You won't have the dynamic range of RAW images, but at least you can edit non-destructively within the confines of the JPG format.

The trick, I believe, is to know your camera intimately, so can exploit its specialties.

11/10/2009 12:23:30 PM · #4

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

BTW, your two examples above are pretty darn good IMO and a lot better than any creative portraiture I have done. Actually, I thought they were examples of what you were trying to achieve until I noticed they were your own. I think you actually need to give me some tips.

aww, thanks! that's really nice. :)

i would love that link, spiff, and your tips are great. i'm going to put something together for the face painting challenge today and will see what happens when i use them. :)

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

11/10/2009 12:29:08 PM · #5

Originally posted by zeuszen:

great point! i have actually had and worked with this camera for years and am only now finding that i want to step beyond it's limitations. that said, having these limitations has forced me to become more creative and take more risks to get the pictures that i am getting. i just want a bit more out of the camera.

i have never used cameraRAW but will look at it now. what are the benefits of using that versus other editing software?

(btw, i don't even have photoshop anymore and have been editing in GIMP. when my hard drive crashed, i lost my old ps elements and didn't have the cash to get the newer, pro level ps. cash (or lack of) is my biggest limitation, sometimes.)

eta: i looked up cameraRAW and realized it is a photoshop plug-in.

Message edited by author 2009-11-10 13:39:46.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/10/2009 12:34:32 PM · #6

crawl all the way to Paris on your knees, and then shout out the name of

jjbeguin

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

11/10/2009 01:17:11 PM · #7

Don't get too wrapped up in what you read and hear.

Just keep doing what you like to do, and keep striving to get what yuou want.

It'll happen.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/10/2009 06:09:26 PM · #8

posthumous, what he accomplishes with a p&s gives me hope! :)

nikonjeb, thanks. while it would be easy to be discouraged because my camera isn't the "perfect" camera, i am actually happy that working within it's capabilities has forced me to be more creative.

snaffles

Nikon D7100

11/10/2009 06:45:43 PM · #9

Originally posted by sadiebird:

I got a helluva lot of good shots with my Canon Powershot A700, before I took the leap to DSLR. And if you took those two portraits with a p&s...wow! Then do you really need a DSLR? Then you have to buy lenses for them, worry about sensor dust, they're heavier and not as compact as a p&s...more trouble than they are worth really ;-)

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/10/2009 06:53:33 PM · #10

Originally posted by snaffles:

Originally posted by sadiebird:
posthumous, what he accomplishes with a p&s gives me hope! :)

nikonjeb, thanks. while it would be easy to be discouraged because my camera isn't the "perfect" camera, i am actually happy that working within it's capabilities has forced me to be more creative.

I got a helluva lot of good shots with my Canon Powershot A700, before I took the leap to DSLR. And if you took those two portraits with a p&s...wow! Then do you really need a DSLR? Then you have to buy lenses for them, worry about sensor dust, they're heavier and not as compact as a p&s...more trouble than they are worth really ;-)

:D yeah, i still want a dslr but i have some time to prepare myself for the heavy lifting. hehehe

and thanks for the compliment!

snaffles

Nikon D7100

11/10/2009 07:52:37 PM · #11

You're welcome, I definitely mean it. They are great pics.

It is a leap from p&s to DSLR - ie I can no longer recklessly sling my purse, containing camera, into the passenger seat of my car - but every so often I do miss the compactness. Also, using a DSLR draws a little more attention to you...so going incognito to shoot pix was much easier with a p&s. If I'm trying to be unobtrusive, then I'll use my 18-55mm kit lens. If I want to impress or intimidate people, however, out comed the 18-200 mm! LOL!

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

11/10/2009 10:44:34 PM · #12

love it! once i upgrade, i'll have to get a big, "intimidating" lens. :)

snaffles

Nikon D7100

11/10/2009 10:47:33 PM · #13

Originally posted by sadiebird:

love it! once i upgrade, i'll have to get a big, "intimidating" lens. :)

LOL! Well I did get the 18-200 mostly cause it's so versatile - can give me everything from wide angle to telephoto and zoom. But yeah, when I zoom out, you can see it :-)

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

11/10/2009 11:19:51 PM · #14

Originally posted by snaffles:

Originally posted by sadiebird:
love it! once i upgrade, i'll have to get a big, "intimidating" lens. :)

LOL! Well I did get the 18-200 mostly cause it's so versatile - can give me everything from wide angle to telephoto and zoom. But yeah, when I zoom out, you can see it :-)

i'm sure whoever said "size doesn't matter" wasn't a photographer! lol

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

11/11/2009 06:13:34 AM · #15

Originally posted by sadiebird:

i'm sure whoever said "size doesn't matter" wasn't a photographer! lol

My, what a big.......lens you have, m'dear!

pamelasue

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

11/11/2009 07:28:51 AM · #16

another thing to consider is exactly what your camera is capable of ... here's the page on DPC that showcases the highest rated images taken with the same camera as you have ... not too shabby!

UrfaK

Canon EOS-650/T4i Rebel

Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/11/2009 08:13:49 AM · #17

Any camera is capable of being amazing regardless of their mega pixel, lens, etc. I've worked my point and shot to its limit and I know what you're talking about. The problem for me was because I was so in tuned with my sony p&s that I knew when it would be the right moment to click and when it was useless.. I was turning away from amazing shot potentials knowing exactly what I was capable of (lesson learnt when I found an awesome sunset with a tree in the back but the light bled through the branches and I couldn't do much with the picture).. now I'm back to taking risks.. I've only had my dslr for a maybe a month and it's a little rebel which regardless of being out dated I love.. ( hey that's only what I could afford :) ).. Low light is not time to pack up my bags and leave but an opportunity to get some more shots...

but I've seen people be rubbish with the best of cameras as well... so the need to get a better camera will not help you or be suddenly amazing at everything. If you've got a kit lens, sharpness is still going to be an issue.. with a dslr it won't magically appear.. so its still about getting a steady learning curve..

11/11/2009 08:30:34 AM · #18

Getting a DSLR did nothing to magically improve my photography or my scores in challenges. Even now, I have as much chance of nailing a high score with my compact as with the SLR. What it has done is to help me to get some shots that might have otherwise been throwaways.

The cliche phrase it "It's the photographer, not the camera". I take the 80/20 rule. I feel 80% is the photographer and 20% is the equipment, but only if the photographer has the knowledge and skill to utilize what improved equipment gives them.

11/11/2009 11:45:23 AM · #19

pamelasue, i've seen that page many times. def. some good shots there. :)

urfa and spiff, i'm not despairing over my lack of a dslr because i feel like that will make my photography better. i like my photography. over the years, i've developed a style that i really enjoy producing, regardless of how it is recieved on dpc. i believe that i'll continue to improve and grow no matter what camera i get. what i want, and the reason for this thread, was to seek tips from others who use a p&s regulary to get the best performance from mine. i'm certainly not looking for ways to change my own vision nor do i think that a better camera will make me a better photographer.

11/11/2009 11:55:51 AM · #20

Originally posted by sadiebird:

the reason for this thread, was to seek tips from others who use a p&s regulary to get the best performance from mine.

Are you on Flickr? If you are, there are a lot of good camera-specific user groups. I got an awful lot out of the Powershot S3 & S5 groups over there. Also some good software user groups as well. I will often ask a PaintShop Pro question in the PSP group over there before here. (People here tend to assume you are using PhotoShop)

11/11/2009 12:03:22 PM · #21

flickr is a good idea, spiff. i have an account for family snapshots because our family is in britain and we are in the states but will look at it for my personal work. thanks for the tip--i never even thought of that. :)

12/30/2009 06:12:00 PM · #22

got my new canon for christmas! yayayayayay! now i just have to learn how to use the thing. :)

GinaRothfels

Olympus 8mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko Digital ED Fisheye PRO Lens

12/30/2009 06:20:10 PM · #23

Originally posted by sadiebird:

got my new canon for christmas! yayayayayay! now i just have to learn how to use the thing. :)

Congratulations. I'm sure you'll be very pleased you made the change.