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05/24/2004 02:27:12 PM · #1 |
I just noticed an entry that the photographer set up the shot, etc., but technically handed the camera off to someone else to actually "take" the picture. Is this allowable? With all the discussion of how to take your own portrait, etc., I thought you also had to be the one the "push the button"? Small detail, but wondering. It's one of those things no one will know unless you tell them, I guess.
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05/24/2004 02:32:09 PM · #2 |
I noticed that too. Maybe she should be given credit for 7th place also.
edit: But if it wasn't mentioned we would not have known either.
Message edited by author 2004-05-24 14:32:55.
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05/24/2004 02:37:37 PM · #3 |
| If it's not legal it should be. Hitting the button is the most insignifiant part of the photofraphy process. I don't know the shot I haven't notice but if he/she made the setup had the vision, and prepared everything only someone else pushed the button, he/she is the photographer the other person could be considered no more than replacement for a remote control. |
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05/24/2004 02:49:58 PM · #4 |
I don't know which shot or which challenge you are talking about, but are you sure they did hand it off to someone else?
At least two of my challenge entries have been of myself. I set the shot up using a tri-pod. I would either use a stand-in for the setup and get into the actual shot or set the feed from the camera to the TV so I can see the framing. Then I used my remote. Could this be how the shot was taken?
I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt on things like that.
drg |
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05/24/2004 02:56:14 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by drgsoell:
I don't know which shot or which challenge you are talking about, but are you sure they did hand it off to someone else?
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The person stated themselves that they did this; it's nothing I "caught" and I would consider it a non-issue myself. But I didn't know at what point it is just like using a remote and when it would be considered less-than-upfront here.
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05/24/2004 02:57:25 PM · #6 |
If you set up the framing and the camera, what is the difference between having someone else push the button, using a remote, or using a timer? Either way you did all the creative work while the camera (a simple tool) captured the image...
Message edited by author 2004-05-24 14:58:02.
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05/24/2004 02:59:49 PM · #7 |
Personally I don´t think that there is anything wrong with this particiluar photo.
He clearly set it up, framed and composed. That is the most essential part of photography. The pressing of the shutter is nearly a formality :) |
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05/24/2004 03:01:00 PM · #8 |
| Excatly I know now the shot, you were verry subtle when talking about a 7'th place so Ill be even more subtle and say Heida is no more than a remote control in that shot, Nazgul had the vision, mounted it framed it, he's the photographer. |
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05/24/2004 03:11:40 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Excatly I know now the shot, you were verry subtle when talking about a 7'th place so Ill be even more subtle and say Heida is no more than a remote control in that shot, Nazgul had the vision, mounted it framed it, he's the photographer. |
I agree. That's why I qualified it with the edit. If it hadn't been mentioned, we would have been none the wiser and this wouldn't be an issue.
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05/24/2004 03:13:02 PM · #10 |
I guess I would conclude that the reason for coming up with ingenious ways to shoot yourself, then, would be for the freedom of experimentation, not having a person to help you, etc. Not so much, is this "legal"? Thank you all for the input. That is how I saw it, but wasn't sure how this site did.
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05/24/2004 04:05:50 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
...the other person could be considered no more than replacement for a remote control. |
Good thing...or a majority of my shots copyrights need to be given to Nikon (name on the remote).
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05/24/2004 04:16:12 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
...the other person could be considered no more than replacement for a remote control. |
Good thing...or a majority of my shots copyrights need to be given to Nikon (name on the remote). |
On a remote it is still you who pushed the button.
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05/24/2004 04:25:28 PM · #13 |
Amazing that the challenges rules state nowhere that the entrant has to be the one who made the entered photo, only that it has to be made with a digital camera. If you have permission to use someone else's work (no copyright violation) it would not even be a reason for disqualification.
Nothing in the Registered User Agreement and nothing on the challenge submission page.
2nd edit: The above is not to get clearance about the discussed matter (the who pushed the button, where both were present), but about the use of say 'what my father did yesterday while I was not there' or 'my good pro-pg friend lends me one of his rejected shots and I am such a sad person that I enter it'.
Message edited by author 2004-05-24 17:42:00.
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05/24/2004 04:36:57 PM · #14 |
What's the big deal anyway? are we running out of legit things to gripe about?
I had my sister take a shot for me that I visualised, composed, etc... and she pressed the button. I even instructed her on how to do that. Is this shot not mine now bc of it?
I wonder what is going on in the minds of those who spend time contemplating these little things? I'm not trying to cut anyone down here but really, what is the big deal? Is this really worthy of discussion? Are we trying to make an amendment to the rules yet again?
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05/24/2004 04:38:40 PM · #15 |
When I voted I had no issue as I did not know the photographer was the one in the picture. Just a thought though, why did Heida take 'a few shots'? surely it would only take 1 shot if it the photographer set it up beforehand?
I reckon its a bit petty but understand the thought process, and as for being able to submit other peoples pics, I'm sure people would not want to do that, but a loophole that should be closed methinks.
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05/24/2004 05:10:42 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Kylie:
With all the discussion of how to take your own portrait, etc., I thought you also had to be the one the "push the button"? |
I'm pretty sure for the Self Portrait challenge, at least, this was considered legal. |
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05/24/2004 05:18:15 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
...the other person could be considered no more than replacement for a remote control. |
Good thing...or a majority of my shots copyrights need to be given to Nikon (name on the remote). |
On a remote it is still you who pushed the button. |
sorry, forgot to precede with [sarcasm] (C: |
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05/24/2004 05:24:45 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Ecce Signum:
Just a thought though, why did Heida take 'a few shots'? surely it would only take 1 shot if it the photographer set it up beforehand?
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When I set up a shot, I always take more than 1 picture, always! No reason to take only one picture, especially when you are outside and many factors can influence the picture (birds etc.).
Message edited by author 2004-05-24 17:26:55. |
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05/24/2004 05:28:47 PM · #19 |
In the professional world it can work all kinds of ways. The assistant could set up the whole shot, the photographer walk in a press the shutter and still gets credit for the shot. Some photographers do all of the setting up and the assistant pushes the shutter and the photographer gets the credit. They could both set up the shot, one or the other presses the button and the photographer gets the credit, etc. Bottom line, actual photographer always gets the credit.
In my opinion it is the one who sets up the shot and frames the shot. How the camera goes click doesn't matter. |
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05/24/2004 05:40:58 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Ivar:
When I set up a shot, I always take more than 1 picture, always! No reason to take only one picture, especially when you are outside and many factors can influence the picture (birds etc.). |
I'm not trying to be pissy on this subject and understand what everybody is saying but, say the 'photog' frames the picture and (say) a bird comes into the frame whilst the 'assistant' triggers the shutter - who took the picture? the photog sitting 10 metres away or the assistant who saw the bird in the viewfinder?
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05/24/2004 05:50:26 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
If it's not legal it should be. Hitting the button is the most insignifiant part of the photofraphy process. I don't know the shot I haven't notice but if he/she made the setup had the vision, and prepared everything only someone else pushed the button, he/she is the photographer the other person could be considered no more than replacement for a remote control. |
Does this mean that I can visualize a shot of an animal, express this to my friend, send them to the zoo, they capture the exact shot I explained and I am the photographer and not my friend? I don't think so. The person behind the camera or in control of the shutter is the photographer.
This would also mean that because someone with the academy awards set up the stage and all of the lighting and the photography backdrop and told the movie star where to stand, that makes them the photographer and not the actual photographers behind the cameras. Doesn't quite fit.
Is it really a SELF PORTRAIT if you didn't take the portrait, your friend did. Doesn't seem quite right here either. Self portrait can be achieved in a few ways, Holding the camera at arms length pointed at ones self, photographing ones self in a reflective surface, remote, timer. The person who pushes the remote button or sets the timer is the photographer. If the person photographed did not initiate the shutter release, they are not the photographer.
This is all just opinion, of course.
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05/24/2004 05:50:43 PM · #22 |
I seem to remember this discussion coming up once before. As I remember it, the consensus was this:
If the person pushing the button is essentially acting as a remote control with a pulse (strictly taking commands from the photographer without any creative input of their own whatsoever), then it is ok. If they are making any decisions as to camera settings and/or composition at the time of exposure, then it is probably not.
Again, this is not an official ruling, just my recollection.
-Terry
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05/24/2004 05:55:24 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I seem to remember this discussion coming up once before. As I remember it, the consensus was this:
If the person pushing the button is essentially acting as a remote control with a pulse (strictly taking commands from the photographer without any creative input of their own whatsoever), then it is ok. If they are making any decisions as to camera settings and/or composition at the time of exposure, then it is probably not.
Again, this is not an official ruling, just my recollection.
-Terry |
Who would be responsible for camera (hand) shake in this situation? The person instructing or the person holding the camera or pushing the button? I would say it's the person holding the camera or pushing the buttons fault, the photographer.
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05/24/2004 05:55:48 PM · #24 |
what about when people take self portraits using timer?
just a bit difficult to use the timer in that particular setup coz I had to wait until the water got still from me walking across;)
If it would have been my 4 year old daughter that pushed that button nobody would have cared about this at all.....and in fact she could just as well have done it for all you know
Message edited by author 2004-05-24 17:57:30.
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05/24/2004 05:59:03 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by wackybill:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I seem to remember this discussion coming up once before. As I remember it, the consensus was this:
If the person pushing the button is essentially acting as a remote control with a pulse (strictly taking commands from the photographer without any creative input of their own whatsoever), then it is ok. If they are making any decisions as to camera settings and/or composition at the time of exposure, then it is probably not.
Again, this is not an official ruling, just my recollection.
-Terry |
Who would be responsible for camera (hand) shake in this situation? The person instructing or the person holding the camera or pushing the button? I would say it's the person holding the camera or pushing the buttons fault, the photographer. |
That's why you put it on a tripod when you set up the shot. |
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