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05/24/2004 12:12:17 PM · #1 |
Ok, there's this billboard in Missouri that has an American flag, an African-American man's face and the text "Missouri Republicans have a plan. Your are not a part of it." Now, if you listen to the Democratic Party explanation, it's just a coincidence that the man in the ad is an African-American. Ok, I could almost accept that explanation until I heard the radio ads the SAME Missouri Democratic Party ran in 1998. The ad states:
"If you don't vote [sound of breaking glass, followed by an explosion], you let another church explode. If you don't vote [sound of something burning], you let another cross burn. If you don't vote [sound of a weapon fired], you let another assault weapon wound a brother or sister. If you don't vote, you let the Republicans put an end to school lunches and Head Start programs."
Gee, that's funny, I don't remember getting the cross-burning memo. Maybe I have to be a card-carrying member of the RepubliKlan Party to get all the perks.
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05/24/2004 02:25:40 PM · #2 |
The extremist on both sides like to blame everything wrong in the world on the other side. Very childish.
Everything wrong in the world today is all GW's fault...
The way people are so quick to point fingers and the media jumps on things, I doubt we'll ever see a two term president again. With the internet and 24 hour news channels it's worse today then ever.
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05/24/2004 02:38:02 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by louddog:
The extremist on both sides like to blame everything wrong in the world on the other side. Very childish.
Everything wrong in the world today is all GW's fault...
The way people are so quick to point fingers and the media jumps on things, I doubt we'll ever see a two term president again. With the internet and 24 hour news channels it's worse today then ever. |
Yes poor Dubya, the poster child for all the world's woes. My heart bleeds.
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05/24/2004 02:49:30 PM · #4 |
Nice sarcasm, but no one said poor GW. If you take that job, you're asking for it.
In a year everything will be Kerry's fault and you'll be defending him just as the righties defend everything Bush does. |
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05/24/2004 04:41:25 PM · #5 |
| Stick to the issue. The rant wasn't about Bush or Kerry. It's about Missouri Democrats and blatant race baiting. Any thoughts on the issue? |
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05/24/2004 05:05:27 PM · #6 |
sounds like a good democratic strategy, however truthful it may be, the marketing aspects of it are great
Message edited by author 2004-05-24 17:05:56.
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05/24/2004 05:32:54 PM · #7 |
Here's a snip from a thread on the Democratic Underground web site from last October, prepping comrades on how to negate some Republican votes ( note, I personally like the caveat expressed in the last statement in item #3 the best - it appears that some folks in this community didn't get that message ):
"As we’ve heard again and again recently, if we are going to beat this bunch of rule breaking GOP misanthropes, we’re going to have to start fighting as dirty as they do. I started this thread for one reason, to get everyone’s ideas on a list of things we as Democrats can consider to stop the takeover of this country. This isn’t going to be a thread for the squeamish, or for the ideologically pure. Best to steer clear if that describes you.
Here are half a dozen ideas to get the ball rolling.
1) Get Republicans fired at your workplace, or fire them yourself if you can – In the belief that all activism starts with the grass roots, do us all a favor, and fire your Republican employees this week. There are legitimate reasons to fire virtually any employee, so avail yourself of them. Not only will it quit the gloating you’re hearing around the office, it’ll stop those donation checks they are getting ready to write. Might also teach them a bit of humility regarding the poor and the disadvantaged. They can be the “Pioneers” of “Unemployment Window A”
2) Pretend to be a Republican, and then cut down the next Republican that you have a conversation with. - The more public/crowed the place you do this, the better. Use whatever remarks you know are sure to make the intended impression. “You’re no better than the liberal scum you claim to hateâ€Â¦ get back into the kitchenâ€Â¦ Just wait till we win next year and toss peons like you into the field or the workhouseâ€Â¦ People in your income bracket don’t have the right to be Republican or vote etc.” If you need talking points, just observe in a Yahoo political chat room for a few minutes and you have all the right wing bile that you can use and quite possibly all that you can stand.
3) Create, plant and disseminate widely “news stories” that discredit GOP policies – A good way to do this is to print out stories in the visual style of a major newspaper or magazine (don’t use the logo or other copywrited material, however) and theme them similarly to the ones that targeted John McCain’s platform last presidential election. Make sure not to slander individuals directly. Leave stacks of the printouts where people are certain to find them – i.e. supermarkets, coffee houses, bars, community centers etc. As in #2 make sure to write these from the right wing perspective, for maximum effect on the target audience. Avoid digital media, as it’s too easy to fact check, not that most GOP voters care to check these things anyway.
4) Contact the IRS and anonymously tip them off regarding prominent GOP contributors in your area. – Lets face it, they are likely tax evaders in any case (that’s why they are GOP), so might as well have them go thru an audit and feel a bit of what it’s like to have a hostile government prying into their affairs. The tax money you shake free will be a little payback to your community for the egregious tax cut they undoubtedly are enjoying.
5) Make sure that you’re the only ride on voting day for a group of hard right types who live out of the way, and then don’t show up. – This works best in low population density areas and poor right wing communities. Cultivate a group of right wing friends and make sure they depend on you for the ride on Election Day. Then don’t show up. Every vote they miss is an uncontested vote on the blue side of the aisle. The right needs a taste of Florida 2000.
6) Impersonate Linda Tripp. – Whisper into the ear of GOP associates to encourage and get dirty laundry regarding their improprieties, and then make sure that information gets into the wrong hands. It’s hard to brag about family values or think about politics when you’re in a divorce court.
Are you really serious about winning the culture war? Do you mean it when you say it’s time to fight fire with fire? Then channel that anger and let’s hear some ideas. Given the thin skin of most conservative ideologues, it won’t take much to have them running far away from such policies and tactics so we can all enjoy proper, principled political discourse in the country again. First, however, they need to be taught that fighting dirty burns them as much as it burns anyone."
You can read the full thread here:Democratic Underground
Ron |
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05/24/2004 08:42:25 PM · #8 |
But this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic party. Here's a quote from the web site you posted under the "about us" section.
"While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole."
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05/24/2004 09:00:52 PM · #9 |
lol thats great
"Get Republicans fired at your workplace, or fire them yourself if you can"
where i work, they would be firing me as im defenetly outnumbered :p |
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05/24/2004 09:42:09 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
But this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic party. Here's a quote from the web site you posted under the "about us" section.
"While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole." |
Why the introductory "BUT"? I don't believe that anyone said that the Democratic Underground web site was affiliated with the Democratic Party. I certainly didn't. Though I can fully understand your desire to make that clear.
Ron |
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05/24/2004 10:08:29 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by thelsel:
Stick to the issue. The rant wasn't about Bush or Kerry. It's about Missouri Democrats and blatant race baiting. Any thoughts on the issue? |
Didn't you get the memo, it's OK to be a racist as long as yourp not a white male conservative!
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05/24/2004 11:03:09 PM · #12 |
Tom, I do not know and am only asking. Is the African/American pictured in the billboard simply because he is black, and the message interpreted as meaning the Republicans are racist? Or is the man portrayed as poor and the billboard located in a community where impoverished African/Americans are a sizable number?
(edit spelling)
Message edited by author 2004-05-24 23:03:35. |
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05/24/2004 11:08:46 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Originally posted by thelsel:
Stick to the issue. The rant wasn't about Bush or Kerry. It's about Missouri Democrats and blatant race baiting. Any thoughts on the issue? |
Didn't you get the memo, it's OK to be a racist as long as yourp not a white male conservative! |
Exactly Russell. When will people wake up to this.
And isn't that "special" how democrates (the ones on that website) who are supposedly champions for fair play for all and against job descrimination, etc., are the same ones actively promoting job descrimination on their web site. LOL, this just goes to show how minorities and others are absolutely being DUPED by the Democratic party. They are being used by that party, and the billboard, above, is a perfect example of that.
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05/24/2004 11:18:44 PM · #14 |
Which web site are you referring to, Chris? The one posted above is not connected with the democratic party.
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Originally posted by thelsel:
Stick to the issue. The rant wasn't about Bush or Kerry. It's about Missouri Democrats and blatant race baiting. Any thoughts on the issue? |
Didn't you get the memo, it's OK to be a racist as long as yourp not a white male conservative! |
Exactly Russell. When will people wake up to this.
And isn't that "special" how democrates (the ones on that website) who are supposedly champions for fair play for all and against job descrimination, etc., are the same ones actively promoting job descrimination on their web site. LOL, this just goes to show how minorities and others are absolutely being DUPED by the Democratic party. They are being used by that party, and the billboard, above, is a perfect example of that. |
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05/24/2004 11:22:32 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Which web site are you referring to, Chris? The one posted above is not connected with the democratic party. |
I know that. I'm just trying to twist reality to fit my agenda. :)
JK, my comment began with "those democrates", meaning the ones who opperate the website, and having nothing to do with the DNC, but moved on to the party in general anf how they (in general) exploit minorities and minority issues/problems to help themselves get votes from that "segment" of society.
Message edited by author 2004-05-24 23:23:42. |
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05/24/2004 11:59:55 PM · #16 |
"The Bag of Dirty Tricks" is a thread on that web site just like what we have here and cannot be attributed to the ones who operate that web site. Did you take those comments by Tom Paine seriously? I think he meant it jokingly and not seriously. It's meaning is in showing how the reupublicans operate.
How exactly do democratic politicians exploit minority issues to get votes? Isn't that what politics is all about anyway? I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine? Coalition building. I think the republicans do it better than anybody...especially with the corporate world. Now why does that make the democrats doing that with minorities so bad in your eyes?
btw Chris...You are very good at twisting reality to fit your agenda :)
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Which web site are you referring to, Chris? The one posted above is not connected with the democratic party. |
I know that. I'm just trying to twist reality to fit my agenda. :)
JK, my comment began with "those democrates", meaning the ones who opperate the website, and having nothing to do with the DNC, but moved on to the party in general anf how they (in general) exploit minorities and minority issues/problems to help themselves get votes from that "segment" of society. |
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05/25/2004 12:29:44 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
"The Bag of Dirty Tricks" is a thread on that web site just like what we have here and cannot be attributed to the ones who operate that web site. Did you take those comments by Tom Paine seriously? I think he meant it jokingly and not seriously. It's meaning is in showing how the reupublicans operate. |
The first paragraph of RonB's initial post makes it sound like that "information" is an article posted by the operators of that website. Are you saying it isn't?
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
How exactly do democratic politicians exploit minority issues to get votes? Isn't that what politics is all about anyway? |
:) I think you know how. They do it in many forms. The most typical way is to constantly make minorities feel like they are helpless people who need help from someone, and that someone is.... YES the Democratic party. When in reality they just need to use our existing protections against descrimination and work hard. If they do that, they will suceed. If they don't, they won't. Democrates in general exploit minorities in this way. When in fact what they are doing to minorities is simply keeping them "down" and "helpless". Minorities should wake up to this fact (a lot have) and realize that in a lot of these situations they are simply being taken advantage of. Simple as that. :) Think about it for a while and you can see signs of it.
The second sentence above, yeah that's probably true. :)
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
btw Chris...You are very good at twisting reality to fit your agenda :) |
LOL, well I don't try doing this on purpose, although it's very hard to keep your non-partisan viewpoint sometimes. :) I slip sometimes, but usually realize it and try to correct it and not be that way.
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05/25/2004 01:06:02 AM · #18 |
You are very funny Chris if you think my opinions are about partisan politics but it shouldn't suprise me because you really don't listen and you do twist reality to fit your agenda. Yes, the web site that RonB posted above is a thread started by someone named Tom Paine...and it's meant as a lampoon. It was not written by the operators of that web site.
Democrats make minorities feel helpless? Do you have a research study to prove that and can you give specifics examples? I know plenty of people in minority groups who work very hard (Moonlight) and can't get ahead. Perhaps they need to be taking money from corporations like both the dems and repubs do so that they can get their agendas passed.
Originally posted by ChrisW123:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
"The Bag of Dirty Tricks" is a thread on that web site just like what we have here and cannot be attributed to the ones who operate that web site. Did you take those comments by Tom Paine seriously? I think he meant it jokingly and not seriously. It's meaning is in showing how the reupublicans operate. |
The first paragraph of RonB's initial post makes it sound like that "information" is an article posted by the operators of that website. Are you saying it isn't?
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
How exactly do democratic politicians exploit minority issues to get votes? Isn't that what politics is all about anyway? |
:) I think you know how. They do it in many forms. The most typical way is to constantly make minorities feel like they are helpless people who need help from someone, and that someone is.... YES the Democratic party. When in reality they just need to use our existing protections against descrimination and work hard. If they do that, they will suceed. If they don't, they won't. Democrates in general exploit minorities in this way. When in fact what they are doing to minorities is simply keeping them "down" and "helpless". Minorities should wake up to this fact (a lot have) and realize that in a lot of these situations they are simply being taken advantage of. Simple as that. :) Think about it for a while and you can see signs of it.
The second sentence above, yeah that's probably true. :)
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
btw Chris...You are very good at twisting reality to fit your agenda :) |
LOL, well I don't try doing this on purpose, although it's very hard to keep your non-partisan viewpoint sometimes. :) I slip sometimes, but usually realize it and try to correct it and not be that way. |
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05/25/2004 01:11:14 AM · #19 |
| Funny also Chris, is that while the democrats may try to include minorities in the party for their vote, the republicans, at least the ones in Florida, successfully disenfranchised black minorities during the 2000 presidential election, to the tune of over 97,000 people so that their rights to vote were denied, thus giving GW florida. That's been reported by Greg Palast of the Guardian. |
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05/25/2004 03:03:17 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
Tom, I do not know and am only asking. Is the African/American pictured in the billboard simply because he is black, and the message interpreted as meaning the Republicans are racist? Or is the man portrayed as poor and the billboard located in a community where impoverished African/Americans are a sizable number?
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Well, I heard a spokesman for the Democratic Party say that the man in the billboard ad was not intended to represent a particular race. And I suppose it's possible we all could have assumed the race issues. However, there are no excuses when it comes to the radio ad. It flat out states that Republicans and cross burning are somehow related. It's totally slanderous and there is no excuse. |
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05/25/2004 08:51:37 AM · #21 |
I don't think it is "totally slanderous" at all.
It was the Democrats in Congress who led the fight against Bush's nomination of Charles Pickering for Federal Judge. He had what many perceived to be an outrageously anti-black position in a *cross-burning* case - most likely the basis for the tack of the ad.
The Republican party has a *lot* to be ashamed of when it comes to racial justice in this country, make no mistake about it. |
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05/25/2004 09:00:57 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Funny also Chris, is that while the democrats may try to include minorities in the party for their vote, the republicans, at least the ones in Florida, successfully disenfranchised black minorities during the 2000 presidential election, to the tune of over 97,000 people so that their rights to vote were denied, thus giving GW florida. That's been reported by Greg Palast of the Guardian. |
Once again, Olyuzi, you have misrepresented the truth. You have implied that Greg Palast reported that the Republicans in the State of Florida disenfranchised 94,000 black voters in the 2000 presidential election.
For reference, Palast was referring to a "purge" list of felons and dead people who would have been prevented from voting.
Fact #1: You have no proof that that list was compiled by Republicans.
Fact #2: Palast never said that that the people were disenfranchised. What he DID say is that 94,000 people were named on the purge list and that HALF of them ( not all of them ) were African-Americans.
Fact #3: If strict criteria were to be followed to correct the errors in that list, 3,000 names would remain - leaving only 91,000 erroneously listed, not 94,000.
Fact #4: Nowhere did Palast say how many of those people on the list had attempted to register to vote and been denied - hence the list is only a list of people who MIGHT have been denied the vote, not a list of those who WERE disenfranchised. In fact, what he said was, quote
"Not all of the 91,000 wrongly listed for the purge lost their vote; and most, though not all, are Democrats."
Ron |
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05/25/2004 09:16:34 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by gingerbaker:
I don't think it is "totally slanderous" at all.
It was the Democrats in Congress who led the fight against Bush's nomination of Charles Pickering for Federal Judge. He had what many perceived to be an outrageously anti-black position in a *cross-burning* case - most likely the basis for the tack of the ad.
The Republican party has a *lot* to be ashamed of when it comes to racial justice in this country, make no mistake about it. |
1) As for Charles Pickering:
Former NAACP official Charles Evers said, "Judge Pickering was the one white man who — when it really counted — stood up for what was right."
He cited as proof: Pickering testified against Imperial Wizard Sam Bowers in 1968; Pickering kept his children in public schools; Pickering invited black Mississippians to his church; and Pickering hired the state Republican Party's first black organizer.
2) It was also the Democrats who led the fight against Bush's nomination of Miguel Estrada, an Hispanic, to the federal bench, even though the American Bar Association gave him a unanimous "Well Qualified" rating, the highest possible rating. The ABA bases its ratings on "integrity, professional competence and judicial temperament."
Ron |
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05/25/2004 09:23:25 AM · #24 |
RonB said:
"Once again, Olyuzi, you have misrepresented the truth. You have implied that Greg Palast reported that the Republicans in the State of Florida disenfranchised 94,000 black voters in the 2000 presidential election."
Sounds like he got it pretty much correct to me, Ron. Certainly " good enough for government work" :D
And actually, Palast does a rock solid job of demonstrating that the list was compiled by long term friends of republicans, who were republican campaign donors, who received their contract despite being underbid by other ( presumably more respectable) firms, and who continue to do nefarious work for the (George) Bush administration.
Palast also documents how the list was known to be corrupt AND illegal, yet was deliberately sanctioned by both Jeb bush and Cruella, sorry, Katherine Harris - neither of whom is a Democrat by last reckoning.
The point is that Republicans seem not to care a whit about even the voting rights of black Americans, if it can win elections.
The Florida felon list was still unfixed for a 2002 election. I'm not sure if it is fixed yet.
What IS clear, according to Palast, is that a ballot cast in a heavily black district nationwide, is TEN times more likely to be voided as invalid as a ballot from a predominately white district.
I await replies from the conservative racial patriots out there who might explain that as a demonstration of the reading skills of black voters. Perhaps they needed to "work harder" on their ballots. :D
Message edited by author 2004-05-25 09:52:47. |
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05/25/2004 09:51:00 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by RonB:
[
1) As for Charles Pickering:
Former NAACP official Charles Evers said, "Judge Pickering was the one white man who — when it really counted — stood up for what was right."
He cited as proof: Pickering testified against Imperial Wizard Sam Bowers in 1968; Pickering kept his children in public schools; Pickering invited black Mississippians to his church; and Pickering hired the state Republican Party's first black organizer.
Ron |
Charles Pickering - staunch supporter of Racial Justice and the American way? Really?
Here are some excerpts from an article on Charles " Martin Luther King, Jr" Pickering from Counterpoint, by Jeffrey St. Clair:
Pickering's appalling ideas on race, state's rights, women, and workers are largely an open book. And there's quite a paper trail, starting with a 1960 law review article for the University of Mississippi Law School. In a piece titled "Criminal Law Miscegenation/Incest" Pickering lamented that the Mississippi's law criminalizing marriages between blacks and whites wasn't being enforced strictly enough. He took it upon himself to draft a plan to beef up the statute and toughen the sanctions for sex between blacks and whites. Two months after the law review article appeared in print, the Mississippi legislature turned the Pickering plan into law.
As a legislator, Pickering demonstrated an unremitting hostility for even the most cautious steps toward giving blacks any kind of foothold in the state's political system. In a senate floor speech in 1975, Pickering denounced the Voting Rights Act as an attack on state sovereignty. He backed reapportionment plans that deliberately submerged black voter strongholds into white dominated districts. And he supported an "open primary" plan for the state, which the Department of Justice said was unconstitutional and the three black members of the Mississippi House of Representatives characterized as an attempt by old-line racists to keep black candidates from winning general elections.
Pickering has long denied any association with the vile Mississippi's Sovereignty Commission, a kind of secret police force which worked to keep Mississippi segregated in the wake of the Brown v. Board of Education ruling. The Sovereignty Commission, often employing KKK thugs, spied on civil rights organizers, politicians, preachers and rockers (including B.B. King, Elvis Presley, B.B. King, James Brown and the Rolling Stones). They acted like a racist COINTELPRO operation, paying their snitches $100 to $150 for information, infiltrating civil rights groups, and deploying a robust arsenal of dirty tricks and smear tactics. The Commission also helped to cover up attacks on blacks and civil rights workers by the KKK and other vigilantes.
It's scarcely surprising that Pickering would want to maintain a healthy bit of distance between himself and this state-sanctioned goon squad. But he may have been so anxious to hide from his past that he perjured himself. In his 1990 testimony before the Senate judiciary committee, Pickering emphatically denied any association with the Sovereignty Commission.
"I never had any contact with that agency and I had disagreement with the purposes and the methods and some of the approaches that they tookLet me further point out that the Commission had, in effect, been abolished for a number of years. During the entire time that I was in the senate, I do not recall really that commission doing anything."
He was being disingenuous on nearly every point. Far from being mothballed, the Commission was regularly coming to the legislature for funds and Pickering was only to happy to oblige, voting to appropriate money for the segregationist snoops in both 1972 and 1973. The governor of Mississippi vetoed state funding for the Commission in 1973, but the plug wasn't officially pulled on it until 1977.
Back in 1990, Pickering may have felt secure that his secret ties to the Sovereignty Commission would never see the light of day. After all, as a senator he had twice voted to keep the records of the Commission sealed from public inspection until 2027. But in 1998, after protracted litigation, the ACLU finally won a lawsuit opening what remained of the files (much had been lost or destroyed) for public review.
Late last year a review of the Commission's files turned up an astounding memo written by one of the Commission's investigators detailing a request made by Pickering in 1972, while he was a senator, for the snoops to develop a dossier on a union that had launched a strike against the largest employer in Laurel, Mississippi, Pickering's hometown. He also asked the Commission to pass along to him background information on the strike's leading organizer.
In light of these documents, Pickering's denials amount to willful distortions if not to perjury.
..... But Pickering has done plenty of damage since he ascended to the federal bench, where his evident animus toward blacks has surfaced again and again in his rulings and opinions. In a case called Fairley v. Forrest County, Pickering lashed out against the one-man/one-vote doctrine as "obtrusive". In another case, Citizens Right to Vote v. Morgan, Pickering characterized the Voting Rights Act as "an unnecessary intrusion" of federal authority into matters that the states are "perfectly capable of resolving." This is perverse legal reasoning to say the least, since the federal role that Pickering is carping about came about only after Mississippi's voting procedures had been ruled repeatedly to be racist and unconstitutional.
..... Under withering questioning at his confirmation hearing in February by Senator John Edwards, the North Carolina Democrat and former trial lawyer, Pickering admitted that in 1994 he tried to convince an old friend in the Clinton Justice Department to tell federal prosecutors to propose a more lenient sentence for a defendant in a federal trial he was overseeing.
Now Pickering is not known for being soft on crime. He regularly berates defendents and prisoners seeking new trials with quotes from the Bible on the punitive nature of Old Testament justice, routinely denies plaintiffs access to trial transcripts and their requests for DNA tests that might prove their innocence. In fact, Pickering has let it be known that he believes in the habeas corpus doctrine applies only to the "truly innocent".
But in this case Pickering took a unwontedly merciful line. The government, using a standard formula under the US Sentencing Guidelines, wanted Daniel Swann to spend to spend seven years in prison. Pickering thought the sentence was too harsh and that Swann should be released on supervised parole. The man's crime: he burned a cross in the front yard of a mixed-race couple in Mississippi.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
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