Question on Challenge results for 9

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

09/23/2009 03:07:16 PM · #26

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by RayEthier:
I am of the opinion that the OP still does not have a full grasp as to what constitutes a "Buddy" vote.

I concur. But I don't think I have ever seen the criteria used to convict someone of it either, so how could anyone know?

Well as pointed out in that other thread as well, we can't know, because if we do know, we will find a way around it.

I think it really goes back to what I said above...its unavoidable and will happen no matter what failsafe you put in place, but as long as you stay off the SC radar and don't ruffle any feathers, you are more than likely in the clear, as its something that has to be searched for and I doubt they would just say oh joe anyuser is due for a spot check.

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

09/23/2009 03:09:16 PM · #27

Originally posted by AJSullivan:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by RayEthier:
I am of the opinion that the OP still does not have a full grasp as to what constitutes a "Buddy" vote.

I concur. But I don't think I have ever seen the criteria used to convict someone of it either, so how could anyone know?

Well as pointed out in that other thread as well, we can't know, because if we do know, we will find a way around it.

I think it really goes back to what I said above...its unavoidable and will happen no matter what failsafe you put in place, but as long as you stay off the SC radar and don't ruffle any feathers, you are more than likely in the clear, as its something that has to be searched for and I doubt they would just say oh joe anyuser is due for a spot check.

Don't place bets on that one.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/23/2009 03:09:46 PM · #28

Originally posted by Melethia:

Somebody guessed I'm somebody I'm not in a current challenge. No, I was not mistaken for Irene, but for another very good photographer. Made my day, actually. And people have guessed me correctly a couple of times, too.

Did they mistake you for me?... awww shucks!

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/23/2009 03:10:16 PM · #29

Yeah, who knows. Oh well, shit happens, the goal of life is to try not to step in it.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/23/2009 03:12:13 PM · #30

The thing you have to remember is that the SC hang out in these forums, they get a feel of who is friendly with who, who knows who in real life etc.. I guess if they was to spot check they (the one who know each other in real life) would be the first people I would be looking at. If they find a disproportionately large number of high votes from `friend a` to `friend b` along with a number of `nudge nudge, wink wink` comments I think it would get alarm bells ringing. You don't need some super algorithm to work that one out.

Message edited by author 2009-09-23 15:13:51.

pedrobop

Canon PowerShot SX100 IS

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

09/23/2009 03:16:39 PM · #31

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by pedrobop:
Well, i don't think people should vote on a image witch they know who took it. It's unfair and i think it's unconscient to change the vote when you know it's owner.

...the sad part of your comment is that you assume that just because a person knows who took a photo that they will automatically be influenced.

I can tell you that there are several people on this site whose craftmanship I readily recognize... and I will tell you that my vote is directly proportional to the quality of their work.

It could also be argued that some people might suffer on the scoresheet simply because voters do recognize their works. How many times have you heard "I am so tired of water drop images", and have you considered that perhaps, just perhaps, it might have resulted in some negative voting on some of IreneM images.

I am of the opinion that the OP still does not have a full grasp as to what constitutes a "Buddy" vote.

Ray

The thing is that a lot of people can't separate things. I see a water drop image here and i remember ireneM, but i don't vote the image believing it's her work because you can't be so sure about that, i try to watch for the unique details of each image. A buddy vote for me is when people are influenced by that thing i said earlier. And if you are a fan of IreneM or other photographer, i don't believe you will not be influenced on your vote. That's one of the reasons why the vote is secret, isn't it?

English problems...sorry...what is "OP"?

Message edited by author 2009-09-23 15:19:48.

LVicari

Canon EOS-50D

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

09/23/2009 03:21:22 PM · #32

Just curious..

IN a self portrait challenge wouldn't there be violations of this rule? If you know who that person is, are you supposed to skip that pic and not vote on it?
I don't beleive for one minute that this thing does not go on in a challenge like that.

Plus if your a DPC celebrity like this person Link no one would or could vote on it.

Message edited by author 2009-09-23 15:22:39.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

09/23/2009 03:21:55 PM · #33

nope. The biggest thing to remember is to play fair! Don't vote on a photo for which you know the photographer, unless you can do it with no bias. If I help someone decide on a photo, I don't vote on it. Even though I figure I could do it without bias, I had seen it for a long period of time than I had seen the other photographs, so I figured that gave it an advantage (or maybe disadvantage!) Actually, I did once. When I looked at the image the first time, I thought it deserved an 8. That opinion didn't change, so I voted. But I haven't done it since.

Other than that, if I have a guess on a photographer, I vote anyway. I have no idea whether my guess is right or wrong, and whose photo it is doesn't positively affect my voting. As someone else mentioned, there was a couple of times that a photographer has entered very similar shots in multiple challenges very close together. I actually voted those down a tad, because it works once, maybe twice, but three times in a row, and I expect better. The third being the same as the first does nothing for me. By that time you're tired of it and want something new.

09/23/2009 03:23:59 PM · #34

Originally posted by Simms:

Simms, while I agree with you, at the same time you illustrated the idiots way to do it. For such an insanely obvious example, I would hope that they could figure it out quite easily. But what happens when you have someone who is slightly smarter than a 8th grader doing it? There are ways to be crafty about it for sure, as I proposed yesterday, if I was to just gleam one of the "WHATS YOUR SCORE" threads in the current challenge forum, I could quicktly get an idea of what the average score is for that challenge, and then just give my "friend" a vote that is slightly above the average...while giving everyone else scores that stay with the average or are slightly below, but steering clear of the extreme ends of the scale. Whileim not going about saying 1 1 1 1 1 10 1 1 1 1 for the whole challenge, I am still having an impact on the scores, no matter how small, but theoretically flying below the radar as my voting doesn't seem too wild.

I would think where people get caught up is voting a 10 on every image thier buddy uploads in every challenge.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

09/23/2009 03:25:39 PM · #35

Pedro - OP is "original poster" - the first person to start this thread. In this case that would be rugmanxxxx (I forget the number and am too lazy to go back and look). And I think your interpretation is correct.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

09/23/2009 03:27:08 PM · #36

Originally posted by AJSullivan:

But what happens when you have someone who is slightly smarter than a 8th grader doing it?

This is where your logic breaks down. ;-)

frisca

Nikon D70

09/23/2009 03:27:23 PM · #37

Rugman -- you've tried on a few occasions to stir up this topic in the forums. If you suspect buddy voting, please give us all the details and we'll look into the patterns. Stop being a troll in the forums. You're like a dog with a bone. Let it go!!

Buddy voting is not for you to JUDGE. Its for us to do so. If you suspect it, send us a ticket. Stop being this way in the forums. Its disruptive and not helpful.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

09/23/2009 03:31:46 PM · #38

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by AJSullivan:
But what happens when you have someone who is slightly smarter than a 8th grader doing it?

This is where your logic breaks down. ;-)

Haha. You said it not me!!!

frisca

Nikon D70

09/23/2009 03:37:22 PM · #39

Alright -- I reconsidered and will publicly tell you the results of my research over the last little while on the users you posted. NONE of them have abberrant voting patterns, no do they disproportionately vote IreneM 10s. There is no buddy voting here. Move along.

And given all this, should you mention Irene's name again, I will ban you from posting in the forums for violation of rules 1, 3 and 6.

Message edited by author 2009-09-23 15:49:09.

pedrobop

Canon PowerShot SX100 IS

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

09/23/2009 03:41:04 PM · #40

Originally posted by frisca:

Well..I think this is an end.
It's never good to put someone out like rugman is doing. He may be right or wrong, but it's never a good thing to do. I did that once and i see no point at that now.

09/23/2009 03:41:11 PM · #41

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by RayEthier:
I am of the opinion that the OP still does not have a full grasp as to what constitutes a "Buddy" vote.

I don't think I have ever seen the criteria used to convict someone of it either, so how could anyone know?

If you know which photos someone enters and try to help them out with your vote, then you should know because, well... you'd be doing it.

09/23/2009 03:42:17 PM · #42

Originally posted by scalvert:

Is there a difference between "trying to help them out" and giving them a higher score than you would if you didn't know them?

eta: question of intent?

Message edited by author 2009-09-23 15:42:57.

09/23/2009 03:48:20 PM · #43

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Is there a difference between "trying to help them out" and giving them a higher score than you would if you didn't know them?

Are they not the same thing? Those would both be attempts to influence the voting and against the rules. So would giving them a "normal" score while voting everyone else down.

09/23/2009 03:51:22 PM · #44

.

Message edited by author 2009-09-23 15:52:00.

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

09/23/2009 03:52:44 PM · #45

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Is there a difference between "trying to help them out" and giving them a higher score than you would if you didn't know them?

Are they not the same thing? Those would both be attempts to influence the voting and against the rules. So would giving them a "normal" score while voting everyone else down.

another piece of the secret criteria? ;-)

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

09/23/2009 03:55:43 PM · #46

I didn't even adjust the scores when voting on my 10 year old son's pictures. If a mom can handle voting without bias, others should as well :D

09/23/2009 03:56:06 PM · #47

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by scalvert:
Those would both be attempts to influence the voting and against the rules. So would giving them a "normal" score while voting everyone else down.

another piece of the secret criteria? ;-)

Not much of a secret, Art. There's only two ways you could try to help a buddy: vote those entries unusually high or vote everyone else's unusually low.

Message edited by author 2009-09-23 16:02:50.

09/23/2009 03:58:05 PM · #48

So you don't think the way I posted would be detected buddy voting as it steers from the extreme ends but still could cause movement in the numbers slightly?

Message edited by author 2009-09-23 16:08:23.

09/23/2009 04:04:10 PM · #49

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Those would both be attempts to influence the voting and against the rules. So would giving them a "normal" score while voting everyone else down.

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
another piece of the secret criteria? ;-)

Not much of a secret, Art. There's only two ways you could try to help a buddy: vote those entries unusually high or vote everyone else's unusually low.

Alrighty. I'ma leave it at that. :)