| Author | Thread |
|
|
08/10/2009 04:22:29 PM · #51 |
when caught up in these situations, it's a matter of your understanding your rights and how diplomatically you can explain them to the other parties involved. if you want, you can take a tone and piss someone off--and risk getting locked up and/or having your equipment damaged. rightly or wrongly, you can achieve that outcome.
on the other hand, if you keep your wits about you, you can make allies and keep control of your stuff.
basically, except for extreme situations (typically involving national security and/or an imminent threat to life or property), no one, not even gov't agencies, can take your property without a warrant. they can ask for it, but you don't have to give it to them, or even show it to them. whether you are a working professional or an average citizen, they cannot take your property without due process. however, it you get in a pissing match with them over your rights, there are any number of laws or regulations they could use to detain you in order to get a warrant before you run off. so, if they really want to see what you have, it's probably best to find a way to work with them. you might have to work your way up the command chain to have a conversation with someone who is on the same page as you, but that can be done. they main thing is to stay cool and not get hyped up over the situation.
as for the OP, i highly recommend bert krage's Legal Handbook for Photographers. here's a summary that should tide you over until you get your own copy.
|
|
|
|
08/10/2009 04:28:59 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Tom, I commend you for the handling of the situation and the handling of your response to the comments in this thread. |
Same here Tom you handled the responses here great, kind of gets ugly here sometimes........... I was going to suggest the property receipt aswell but somebody beat me too it....
Geese all you did was ask a question here for advice but again way to handle it man and sorry about your project that sucks, your teacher could have been nicer
Message edited by author 2009-08-10 16:29:10.
|
|
|
|
08/10/2009 05:47:26 PM · #53 |
Well Tom, sorry to hear about the no grade. However, have you attempted directly from the police to obtain a copy of the photos. Speaking with them may just get a copy, and therefore the assignment can still be submitted. I also hope you had been backing up, and therefore are not without images..........Good Luck
Furthermore, although I am a strong believer in deadlines being met, I think your lecturer should have both some compassion for the situation, and maybe provide some possible guidance that might help you get the images back........that is, if they are a decent Teacher and person.........
Originally posted by Tom:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Oh and now you are all torn up, cos you have NOTHING for your little school project????????? |
That was rude. |
I agree it was rude. I thought her entire post was out of line. A few people expressed opinions, but to attack someone who has done what they believed was the right thing was uncalled for. You have every right to worry about a project you have put a lot of effort into, and why should you be punished for attempting to do the right thing.......
Your responses here have been sppot on and you should be commended, others need to get a grip........ |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 05:53:53 PM · #54 |
OK, he caught 25 men beating the crap out of 9 men
1 could die. Then it would be murder
He says he has their faces on tape , so he has murder suspects on tape doing this to the 1 man
He is torn up that he handed over physical evidence that will put these people behind bars
He is worried that he has nothing for a school project.
Chain of Evidence is broken if it goes home with the photographer.
A school project is worth more than bringing many to justice for nearly killing a man
and you are calling me rude
Message edited by author 2009-08-10 17:58:57. |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 06:11:42 PM · #55 |
| Chain of Evidence is not broken if Photog takes cards home. The photographer just has to appear in court. We haverighta for a reason, it's not up to anyone but the photographer if they care to give them up. |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 06:31:43 PM · #56 |
Look! I see some of you can not find any humour in my post. Lets take all the political stuff out and get to the nuts and bolts of the matter
Just suppose you were sitting in a cafe and overheard a conversation where an assassination was to take place later that evening, including all the details of where, when etc. Would you think it would be OK to keep it to yourself and try to get exclusive pics of the attempt or should you advise the authorities? (Is that better?)
Now, it seems the student has worked on a project two months and is due to turn it in today. It also sounds like he has nothing to turn in. What has he been doing the past two months? Does this paper depend entirely on the photos he had in his camera taken the night of the assault? It looks very much like he waited until the last minute to do his assignment. It also looks like he may have taken pictures for two months without backing anything up else he would have had something to use in his paper. I have no sympathy for him and feel the professer made the right choice.
|
|
|
|
08/10/2009 06:41:15 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by Tom:
..... I have to hand in pictures from last night for class on Monday, and now I have nothing. Adrenaline was pumping, it was 4 am, so perhaps I made a bad choice to give it away without much of a fight? |
Maybe I misunderstood. If so, I apologize. Have you been handing in pictures periodically? |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 06:43:08 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
It looks very much like he waited until the last minute to do his assignment. It also looks like he may have taken pictures for two months without backing anything up else he would have had something to use in his paper. I have no sympathy for him and feel the professer made the right choice. |
I tend to agree, somewhat. This is/was a good real-life lesson to be learned.
If you were on assignment by Time, Newsweek, or National Geographic magazines for a cover image for the September issue and the deadline was yesterday, do you think the magazine's photo editor would halt production of the magazine because you had nothing? No! You can bet that s/he had other backup plans (images) ready to go just in case.
Message edited by author 2009-08-11 02:25:59.
|
|
|
|
08/10/2009 07:06:02 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by Tom:
..... I have to hand in pictures from last night for class on Monday, and now I have nothing. Adrenaline was pumping, it was 4 am, so perhaps I made a bad choice to give it away without much of a fight? |
Maybe I misunderstood. If so, I apologize. Have you been handing in pictures periodically? |
To clarify: I've spent every possible second with the Guardian Angels lately, and have all the pictures (excluding Saturday night) backed-up on my hard drive. Every week we have to hand in an update for class, and Saturday night was the only time I saw the Angels the whole week, therefore I have nothing to turn in. This is a huge project for me, and to even miss one week of turning in an assignment is not going to look great on my final grade. That's why I would like a copy of my photos from the LAPD, and I'm going to talk to the detective when his shift starts at 6pm... |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 07:10:49 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Tom:
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by Tom:
..... I have to hand in pictures from last night for class on Monday, and now I have nothing. Adrenaline was pumping, it was 4 am, so perhaps I made a bad choice to give it away without much of a fight? |
Maybe I misunderstood. If so, I apologize. Have you been handing in pictures periodically? |
To clarify: I've spent every possible second with the Guardian Angels lately, and have all the pictures (excluding Saturday night) backed-up on my hard drive. Every week we have to hand in an update for class, and Saturday night was the only time I saw the Angels the whole week, therefore I have nothing to turn in. This is a huge project for me, and to even miss one week of turning in an assignment is not going to look great on my final grade. That's why I would like a copy of my photos from the LAPD, and I'm going to talk to the detective when his shift starts at 6pm... |
Is the professor as strict as DPC? In other words, does he check for the EXIF dates? If not, could you have turned in a photo that ended up in your virtual "editing room floor" from past weeks?
Message edited by author 2009-08-11 02:25:52.
|
|
|
|
08/10/2009 07:13:02 PM · #61 |
Good luck with getting your images from the detective.
A question you may want to ask your prof is how he would of handled the situation (re: giving up images as evidence in an investigation). His answer may give you insight into how to handle it next time when the stakes are higher. |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 07:23:16 PM · #62 |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 07:28:26 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
OK, he caught 25 men beating the crap out of 9 men
1 could die. Then it would be murder
He says he has their faces on tape , so he has murder suspects on tape doing this to the 1 man
He is torn up that he handed over physical evidence that will put these people behind bars
He is worried that he has nothing for a school project.
Chain of Evidence is broken if it goes home with the photographer.
A school project is worth more than bringing many to justice for nearly killing a man
and you are calling me rude |
From your earlier post:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Oh and now you are all torn up, cos you have NOTHING for your little school project?????????
Excuse me......................
|
I too, will call you rude. You have your right to your opinion, but be a bit more diplomatic.
Message edited by author 2009-08-10 19:29:09. |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 07:44:47 PM · #64 |
If the professor marks you down for having captured an event that may be of significant importance in a criminal investigation and furthermore relinquishing it as evidence ............. he's a dork. Let the admins know of this and the prof will be up to his arse in hot water.
I'd just hand him the name of the detectives and they can verify whether you actually completed your assignment and whther they may feel you are deserving of a decent grade.
In any event, you may also have placed yourself at peril by circulating evidence knowingly and possibly influencing the outcome of a criminal investigation.
Play it smart and you can still come out with an excellent grade for your work. You'll also potential come out with an excellent grade on your conscience. |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 07:45:57 PM · #65 |
| It doesn't matter who you call rude. You're nobody. |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 08:07:56 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
It doesn't matter who you call rude. You're nobody. |
Why yes. Yes I am. |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 08:14:34 PM · #67 |
| I can live with it, been called worse, but I stand by what i say |
|
|
|
08/10/2009 08:15:23 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Tom:
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by Tom:
..... I have to hand in pictures from last night for class on Monday, and now I have nothing. Adrenaline was pumping, it was 4 am, so perhaps I made a bad choice to give it away without much of a fight? |
Maybe I misunderstood. If so, I apologize. Have you been handing in pictures periodically? |
To clarify: I've spent every possible second with the Guardian Angels lately, and have all the pictures (excluding Saturday night) backed-up on my hard drive. Every week we have to hand in an update for class, and Saturday night was the only time I saw the Angels the whole week, therefore I have nothing to turn in. This is a huge project for me, and to even miss one week of turning in an assignment is not going to look great on my final grade. That's why I would like a copy of my photos from the LAPD, and I'm going to talk to the detective when his shift starts at 6pm... |
Since this is now Monday, late afternoon, perhaps you will check in and tell us what your professor said when you related what happened to your assignment. This thread has been doing a lot of hypothesizing on what your professor will say, so it will be a welcome note to know the actual outcome.
I rather think your professor may have used it as a 'teaching moment.'
|
|
|
|
08/11/2009 12:35:40 AM · #69 |
Go ahead and flame me but I agree 100% with Juliet and Ivo. This shouldn't eve be a debate, how would you feel Tom if you were in the other guy's shoes right about now?
The other mans life and prosecution of his assailant/murderer which ever may be the case, FAR outweigh your grade and if your prof cant see the value in that then he should be removed from his position!
|
|
|
|
08/11/2009 04:19:37 AM · #70 |
I can't believe how much you guys are freaking out about this.
AS HE HAS ALREADY STATED, he did the "right thing" by turning the cards over to the authorities. Is it so wrong for him to question if there could have been a way for him to both help out the authorities/injured party(ies) while protecting his own rights at the same time? NO. So calm yourselves. I love you guys, but sometime you really just need to chill out, especially when what you're pushing for is exactly that which has already happened!
It's not just some silly school assignment at stake. It's a $120,000+ degree. That's not pocket change, and regardless of whether or not you agree, money like that makes a difference.
Anyway, Tom, I'm a Brookie too, and I mentioned this case to the Business Law prof, Darla, just to see what she would recommend, and she agreed with what the photojournalists in this thread said: that you could have kept your cards, gotten a copy for yourself, and then turned the cards and/or a copy of everything to the authorities just fine. It doesn't really matter now since everything is pretty much said and done, but I figured I'd throw it out there. Good luck with your project. |
|
|
|
08/11/2009 05:14:31 AM · #71 |
|
|
|
08/11/2009 11:06:42 AM · #72 |
| Never too late in a rant post. Oh wait, this is Out and About. Probably why you missed it. |
|
|
|
08/11/2009 01:19:07 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by FF112173:
You did the right thing. Ask the police for a property receipt for your project and be proud of what you did. |
Originally posted by Tom:
Thanks! I did ask for a receipt, and this morning I took it in to school to tell my teacher and hopefully get some leeway. Unfortunately, he said a deadline is a deadline, and I wouldn't be getting a grade. Bummer! :(
I'd consider going over his head to the department head, and if need be, the dean of students.
These are extraordinary circumstances that wwere completely out of your control.
BTW, you have my respect for doing the right thing as well.
[quote=JulietNN]
Oh and now you are all torn up, cos you have NOTHING for your little school project????????? |
Originally posted by Tom:
That was rude. |
Completely uncalled for..... |
|
|
|
08/11/2009 01:31:40 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by geinafets:
Anyway, Tom, I'm a Brookie too, and I mentioned this case to the Business Law prof, Darla, just to see what she would recommend, and she agreed with what the photojournalists in this thread said: that you could have kept your cards, gotten a copy for yourself, and then turned the cards and/or a copy of everything to the authorities just fine. It doesn't really matter now since everything is pretty much said and done, but I figured I'd throw it out there. Good luck with your project. |
Problem is.....this wasn't something that could be addressed at 4:00 A.M. when the cops were there asking for the cards.
He shouldn't be expected to know this information on any level, and a private citizen should always err to the side of trust and caution in a police situation and cooperate. I realize that we're supposed to stand up for our individual rights, but if we're in question, why would you give the police a hard time rather than help? As the OP said, it's possible that his help may further the investigation and he was willing to hand over his cards. That he's suffering because of it, and being given a hard time on any level is pretty bad.
Maybe the professor's efficiency should be questioned if he has no understanding of the situation and wants to take this hard line.......maybe he's just an @$$hole, I don't know.
There's an awful lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on, and as Stefanie pointed out:
It's not just some silly school assignment at stake. It's a $120,000+ degree. That's not pocket change, and regardless of whether or not you agree, money like that makes a difference.
Those of you who want to cast aspersions on this guy for worrying about his future would do well to consider the consequences of his doing the right thing on the spot.
|
|
|
|
08/13/2009 03:46:58 PM · #75 |
Update: Not much new has happened since I met with my teacher on Monday, when he said a deadline is a deadline, sooo I got an F. Fantastic.
I've been calling the LAPD all week, but the detective who took my 8-Gig cards doesn't work until 6pm, and by that time all the operators have gone home so there's no way to reach him. They've also been having phone issues all week, so the direct number to his desk isn't working. In summary, I haven't been able to speak to him yet to get copies of my photos.
The Guardian Angel who was sent to the ER is doing much better, and is already starting to speak a little. :) |
|
