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08/11/2009 08:37:21 AM · #51 |
I agree with  Jason_Cross. I think if we started firing bad teachers and rewarding good teachers, the education system would be so much better. Instead of promoting bad teachers into administrative roles, fire them! (I'm not saying every administrator was at one time a horrible teacher but it does happen).
New Orleans public schools are horrible, the only schools worth going to are the charter schools. The charter schools are funded by the government but they are run more like a business and are therefore better schools. If we can get most, if not all schools, to be charter schools and orchestrated like a business, I think the American education system would soar.
Message edited by author 2009-08-11 08:37:42. |
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08/11/2009 12:14:21 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by JEason:
I think if we started firing bad teachers and rewarding good teachers, the education system would be so much better. Instead of promoting bad teachers into administrative roles, fire them! (I'm not saying every administrator was at one time a horrible teacher but it does happen).
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That is something that needs to be improved. I have been teaching for 6 years now, and I am still surprised at how hard it is to get fired as a teacher.
The issue that comes up with that though, is how do you determine what a good teacher is vs a bad teacher? If you use student grades as a measure, good teachers will refuse to work at troubled schools where they are needed most for fear that because they are in a disadvantaged school, they will have less job security. Furthermore, you will have teachers teach to the test, rather than teach the curriculum, just to ensure their job security or pay.
If you poll the students, you will find that the good (ie. most popular) teachers are those who are friendliest to the students, perhaps easiest on them, lacking the strict discipline of other effective teachers.
Also, to be fair to all teachers, we have to constantly learn ourselves. To be a good teachers means that you will have to constantly update your knowledge sets, and your teaching skills. To do that requires a lot of support. More opportunities for teachers to attend workshops and conferences where they can attain those skills and knowledge. This is one area of the education system which is really lacking... there is little funding for a teachers' professional development. |
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08/11/2009 01:00:56 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by VitaminB:
The issue that comes up with that though, is how do you determine what a good teacher is vs a bad teacher? If you use student grades as a measure, good teachers will refuse to work at troubled schools where they are needed most for fear that because they are in a disadvantaged school, they will have less job security. Furthermore, you will have teachers teach to the test, rather than teach the curriculum, just to ensure their job security or pay.
If you poll the students, you will find that the good (ie. most popular) teachers are those who are friendliest to the students, perhaps easiest on them, lacking the strict discipline of other effective teachers.
Also, to be fair to all teachers, we have to constantly learn ourselves. To be a good teachers means that you will have to constantly update your knowledge sets, and your teaching skills. To do that requires a lot of support. More opportunities for teachers to attend workshops and conferences where they can attain those skills and knowledge. This is one area of the education system which is really lacking... there is little funding for a teachers' professional development. |
Yes it is very difficult to determine a good teacher from a bad teacher for all the issues you mentioned plus the pure subjectivity of teaching. One student will connect with their teacher because their personalities are compatible while the student sitting in the same class will think the teacher is a horrible teacher because their personalities are not compatible.
In Finland, every teacher is paid extremely well (not sure but I believe it's about 50-60K starting out), they are required to obtain a master's degree. The schools don't teach the children to read until they are about nine or ten years old, and Finland has something like a 98-99% literacy rate. (They also have majority white population with 90% or greater of the people in the middle class).
Education is very tricky. |
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08/11/2009 07:09:18 PM · #54 |
Tricky it is. Here in the states, a master's degree is also required. My brother can work although he's still in school on his way towards the masters. As for why its tricky?
Well, I was trying to prove a point in saying how good teachers are measured by the intangibles rather than what they teach. For example, all 10th grade teachers teach the same curriculum, so where is the line drawn between good and bad teachers if they all teach from the same textbook? I was talking about patience and charisma, etc...rather than subject matter because of this reason.
VitaminB great subject, love biology. You have to go by a guideline when teaching correct? Is there a time when you might improvise and wander into lets say, microbiology or any other rogue lessons not included in the plan? For example, you might be instructed to teach about an Amoebas but do you ever complete a personal lesson plan that stretches the box into the philosophical spectrum of teaching? I don't think many teachers do, so how where is the line drawn between good and bad teacher if the plans are all the same? |
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08/11/2009 07:20:52 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
Tricky it is. Here in the states, a master's degree is also required. My brother can work although he's still in school on his way towards the masters. |
I'm studying to be a teacher and I don't have to get a master's degree. Although there is a pay raise with a master's degree, starting out I don't plan on getting one but I do plan on going back to school to get one in the near future. I am in Georgia and each state is different so maybe you need a master's in NY.
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
I don't think many teachers do, so how where is the line drawn between good and bad teacher if the plans are all the same? |
Although, I have not been a "teacher" as a formal role, I have done observations in the classrooms and had many interactions with the students I will teach in two years. I think one aspect of teaching that can answer the question of a good or bad teacher is passion and sympathy. If a teacher is passionate about the subject matter and the students, they will make better connections with their students and therefore be better teachers, IMHO.
Maybe VitaminB can give you a more complete answer but that'll help a little bit (I hope).
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08/11/2009 09:50:22 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
VitaminB great subject, love biology. You have to go by a guideline when teaching correct? Is there a time when you might improvise and wander into lets say, microbiology or any other rogue lessons not included in the plan? For example, you might be instructed to teach about an Amoebas but do you ever complete a personal lesson plan that stretches the box into the philosophical spectrum of teaching? I don't think many teachers do, so how where is the line drawn between good and bad teacher if the plans are all the same? |
By guidelines... yes, we have a curriculum to teach if we are teaching a provincial (Im Canadian) course. I teach grade 9 science, grade 11 and grade 12 biology. They have a set of expectations that my students must meet to earn the credit. The importance of this is that if a student learns grade 12 biology in my class, and another student learns grade 12 biology in a class in a different school, they learn the same stuff to get the same credit.
I have complete freedom to teach it in the method that I want. I never sit my student down and say "read the text for the entire period, and answer questions 1-9".... I would get bored before the students did. Each year I try to change it up, keep it fresh. One of my favourite things to do in my class is Science News. I start each class by summarizing a current event in science for my students... they go nuts for it, and in days when I dont have news, they demand it. Its a great hook (in teachers college, they called it an anticipatory set, a way to get your kids attention, and keep it for the entire class).
Not all teachers plans are the same... in fact, they are all different. We are not given lesson plans, we are given expectations to cover... it is up to us as teachers to develop all plans on our own. So, any given day, I have to develop 4-5 hours of new lesson material. The general rule is 3 hours prep for every hour of instruction (now you know why we get summers off.... we work a lot in those 10 months). I have been teaching a few years, so I am able to reuse many plans, and adapt them, rather than starting from scratch, so it doesnt take 3 hours anymore... but, its the planning that I enjoy the most, because it gives me a chance to learn new things about my subject.
__________
As an aside.... I took an AQ (additional qualification) course last summer, and one of my instructors asked us to brainstorm words describing teenagers (students). You can imagine the words that came up: lazy, apathetic, unmotivated, attention deficit, etc. etc.
Then the instructor asked, brainstorm words to describe a teenager (student) you know well. The words that came up were: motivated, enthusiastic, hard working, kind, patient etc. etc.
It proved to me that any time I think a kid is lazy, apathetic, or any other negative term, it means that I have yet to get to know them well enough.
I think the same exercise would work if you think of teachers. People mention teacher, and others automatically think of negative terms. Think of a teacher you know on a personal level, and you will think different. Maybe it is just a matter of getting to know eachother better. |
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08/11/2009 10:06:04 PM · #57 |
One teacher that I've never forgotten is my Grade 10 Math teacher. He had a different approach since he came from the UK and I think I learned the most in that class. Also, class size was great, only 10 of us.
I think class size has a lot to do with how well a teacher can teach a class. Since everyone learns at a different pace and in a different way, large classes restrict the approach taken and the amount of time that can be given to each student, especially those that need the most help.
Another teacher, who is now a full time photographer (has been for about 15 years), I wish I had in highschool. I think his classes would have been great fun and would have learned alot.
Also, my Uncle, who used to teach at the University level, history and political science. I think even I would have found those subjects interesting in his class.
I think everyone has at least one teacher whom they can look up to.
Message edited by author 2009-08-11 22:26:13. |
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08/11/2009 10:16:22 PM · #58 |
| Just found out today that all the classes I will be teaching are for college credit this year. So that is cool. Every student in my class has the chance to earn 3 undergrad credits for participating in my course. This year should be a really good time. |
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