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08/06/2009 11:40:06 PM · #26 |
just for reference, I know this sentence as:
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, teach. Those who cannot teach, administrate.
Although I agree with previous posters that a good teacher should be able to do, too many teachers cannot do.
It always depends on the field of study, but teaching theory poorly is often easier and less scrutinized than performing under the pressure of an organization.
On top of that, doing something really well requires passion. If our passion is rather on teaching than on doing, you might be well a better teacher than a doer. |
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08/06/2009 11:48:17 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
Nowadays, people learn lessons from mistakes only, teachers are obsolete. |
If you truly believe that, you never had the pleasure of knowing an outstanding teacher. And that's a shame.
 VitaminB, thanks for an excellent poem. Reminds me of something I've felt about my career choice vs. a friend's (neither of us is a teacher in the strict sense, but the basic concept of adding value to the world still applies). |
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08/07/2009 12:31:04 AM · #28 |
In my experience, the original comment is generally something said by someone who's never been a teacher :-)
I teach preschool--and I can tell you that teaching is no easy task! Though it's one of the most rewarding things I've ever been a part of. We multitask, problem solve, engage, enchant, model behavior, mold behavior, and enrich learning---just in the space of 10 minutes :-) I've long believed that the most important thing a teacher can "teach" is excitement about learning. *THAT* is the highest goal. When the students are excited, they practically seem to teach themselves.
Yes, there are bad teachers. Possibly people who never wanted to be teachers, or people who desperately wanted to teach but have become worn down by years of being under appreciated and under paid.
But there are wonderful teachers too. And they do much, much more than "do." They "do everything." |
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08/07/2009 04:20:26 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
Nowadays, people learn lessons from mistakes only, teachers are obsolete. |
If you truly believe that, you never had the pleasure of knowing an outstanding teacher. And that's a shame.
VitaminB, thanks for an excellent poem. Reminds me of something I've felt about my career choice vs. a friend's (neither of us is a teacher in the strict sense, but the basic concept of adding value to the world still applies). |
I wasn't thinking of the school teacher, but teacher in general, had just read the OP now. School teachers have a tough time capturing the kids attention, if a teacher has the right charisma they are good. I personally never listened to my parents and for good reasons, they were stuck in the 18th century, but I had some great English teachers in school.
Message edited by author 2009-08-07 04:23:04. |
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08/09/2009 05:33:23 AM · #30 |
That really depends on their life experience.
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08/09/2009 06:08:56 AM · #31 |
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08/09/2009 07:20:32 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
I wasn't thinking of the school teacher, but teacher in general, had just read the OP now. School teachers have a tough time capturing the kids attention, if a teacher has the right charisma they are good. I personally never listened to my parents and for good reasons, they were stuck in the 18th century, but I had some great English teachers in school. |
This is kind of funny, too....
The school teacher is by far the most important teacher of all, because they have to teach you how to learn.
If they can impart that and at the same time inspire th e student to want to learn for the sake of acquiring knowledge, then they have really accomplished something.
I was fortunate in that although I was such a disruption that I never finished school, I was gifted with the yearning for knowledge that continues daily in my life.
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08/09/2009 09:44:52 PM · #33 |
| Well, Im glad I'm making people laugh, imagine if I had tried to be funny. I went to two different colleges, dropped out of my last one because they weren't giving the curriculum that I was interested in...anyways, seems like your a teacher of self, who went to the college of self...your determination to deny ignorance means you don't have apathy, which is an epidemic these days. Personally, I think most kids today don't have to be taught how to learn for the same reason I mentioned above. Kids today are very opinionated, wiser than the baby boom generation by far. |
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08/09/2009 10:57:11 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
Personally, I think most kids today don't have to be taught how to learn for the same reason I mentioned above. Kids today are very opinionated, wiser than the baby boom generation by far. |
Opinionated... absolutely.
Greater access to information... undoubtedly.
Wiser... highly debatable. |
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08/10/2009 01:02:09 AM · #35 |
Definitely debatable, but I think the majority of kids today have a mind of their own. You could parent them, but they make it hard for teachers, my brother just graduated and is substituting now and he was told while interning that he should do his best to keep the kids from becoming bored, and that was the #1 most important thing. "Dont bother telling a kid to take off his hat" they told him. "They won't listen".
I was thinking about this past weekend and how my grandfather still needed me to turn the satellite TV box on even though I taught him how to do it dozens of times. Not just him, but all older adults, pre-baby boomer gen. especially. Then just the other day, my 10 year old cousin began fiddling around with the PlayStation 3, flipping though menus, never played it before, he only plays the Nintendo but seemed like he had a hang of it. He even made sure to shut off the power surge switch in the back. And no, I didn't teach him anything!
Message edited by author 2009-08-10 01:06:09. |
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08/10/2009 01:40:57 AM · #36 |
You grow in knowledge from a good teacher, and gain frustration from a bad one. That is why it is important that good people become teachers. And by good people I mean those that are tops in their field. What the teaching profession really needs are people that treat it as a dignified profession. We need the best business people teaching business, the best computer engineers teaching computers, authors teaching writing, and artists teaching art. The problem is that people de-mean the profession because they have encountered a bad teacher along the way that makes them wish they never went to school.
In California they determine the amount of jails they need to build by third grade test scores. It doesn't matter who is teaching kids, parents or schools, but they need to learn. Most families have both parents working. So kids are having to learn away from home because the parents are not there to educate their children. Societies need educated people to function. Less educated societies are not the ones that I would choose to live in.
This saying of "those who can't teach" frustrates me because it detours some potentially great educators into picking another field. Society suffers when good teachers do other things for a living, leaving education to those who "can't".
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08/10/2009 02:03:23 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
Definitely debatable, but I think the majority of kids today have a mind of their own. You could parent them, but they make it hard for teachers, my brother just graduated and is substituting now and he was told while interning that he should do his best to keep the kids from becoming bored, and that was the #1 most important thing. "Dont bother telling a kid to take off his hat" they told him. "They won't listen".
I was thinking about this past weekend and how my grandfather still needed me to turn the satellite TV box on even though I taught him how to do it dozens of times. Not just him, but all older adults, pre-baby boomer gen. especially. Then just the other day, my 10 year old cousin began fiddling around with the PlayStation 3, flipping though menus, never played it before, he only plays the Nintendo but seemed like he had a hang of it. He even made sure to shut off the power surge switch in the back. And no, I didn't teach him anything! |
I am a teacher... and when I ask a kid to take off their hat, they do. It might be different for a substitute, but for me, I have the authority, and respect amongst my students that they listen.
As for your grandfather, keep in mind that he grew up without satellite tv and PlayStation, while your 10 year old cousin has known it his entire life. Had your grandfather grown up in the same circumstances as your cousin, im sure he would be showing you how to fix the satellite.
I teach biology myself, and I have yet to meet a kid that didn't need me to teach them something in order for them to learn biology. Even my strongest students needed guidance and direction. |
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08/10/2009 02:17:55 AM · #38 |
Well you can't teach patience for sure, and I think some of the greatest teacher's have plenty of it. My brother is teaching in the Bronx right now, an understaffed school, and teaches classes of 40 kids. He just started and has plenty of patience in the tank, but I hope it doesn't run out.
jason_cross , thats a problem now that mothers or parents aren't around today, most women work, and I will leave that topic alone, but both parents have jobs, and majority of teens are working instead of going to school. I think High School should be eliminated all together. Most of the academia in High School is re-taught again in colleges, not sure about elite universities, but majority of colleges teach 12th grade level stuff. Forget school loans, you might have to start paying it back before getting a job after graduating. Job placement is slow. Feels as if the world is becoming privatized, yet monopolized, and funding is thrown in the wrong directions. |
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08/10/2009 08:51:06 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
I think High School should be eliminated all together. Most of the academia in High School is re-taught again in colleges, not sure about elite universities, but majority of colleges teach 12th grade level stuff. |
What would those kids who can't afford college but still want to learn do if there is no high school? If you get rid of high school, the country will suffer (that is if you're in the US). There are students who want to learn and care about their education that cannot afford college. Getting rid of high school is not a smart idea in my opinion. |
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08/10/2009 10:15:01 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by JEason:
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
I think High School should be eliminated all together. Most of the academia in High School is re-taught again in colleges, not sure about elite universities, but majority of colleges teach 12th grade level stuff. |
What would those kids who can't afford college but still want to learn do if there is no high school? If you get rid of high school, the country will suffer (that is if you're in the US). There are students who want to learn and care about their education that cannot afford college. Getting rid of high school is not a smart idea in my opinion. |
Wouldn't it be better to improve the high school so colleges don't have to reteach things. Sure, some review is necessary but if you find most of the info is being repeated there's got to be something wrong. |
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08/10/2009 10:46:09 AM · #41 |
| I used to design aircraft test systems for both navigation and power generation and the best part of the job was when I went out to teach other engineers and technicians. Although I laugh and say the silly statement of those who cannot do, teach, it is only meant for an incompetent few. I do and teach whenever I can, the only to pass on information for future generations! |
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08/10/2009 11:11:07 AM · #42 |
It isn't that High School is useless, it is that students are responsible for more information every year. It used to be that a college could afford two years of basics in a four year program. Now they are making students take the basics before the four year degree starts and that is because they have so much information to give students in four years so they can actually perform the jobs and careers they are training for.
When I was in first grade we finger painted. My son finger painted in pre-school, in first grade he read "the Hobbit". Schools are being challenged to push students much harder than ever before so they can keep up with society and its crazy pace.
Unless you play football...then you finger paint in 10th grade. |
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08/10/2009 01:16:48 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Wouldn't it be better to improve the high school so colleges don't have to reteach things. Sure, some review is necessary but if you find most of the info is being repeated there's got to be something wrong. |
I fully agree! |
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08/10/2009 01:25:30 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
It isn't that High School is useless, it is that students are responsible for more information every year. It used to be that a college could afford two years of basics in a four year program. Now they are making students take the basics before the four year degree starts and that is because they have so much information to give students in four years so they can actually perform the jobs and careers they are training for.
When I was in first grade we finger painted. My son finger painted in pre-school, in first grade he read "the Hobbit". Schools are being challenged to push students much harder than ever before so they can keep up with society and its crazy pace.
Unless you play football...then you finger paint in 10th grade. |
Kids are forced to grow up much faster than they should and that can cause serious psychological problems later in life.
In our school system, everything has to be measured in some form or fashion but learning in its truest sense cannot be measured. I'm going to be a teacher and I've been doing classroom observations for the past year in order to obtain my degree. The students that I have worked with (for the most part) will not do anything unless there is a grade involved. In my opinion, the most important job for a teacher is to teach people to learn and instill a desire to learn. They shouldn't be doing stuff for grades but to increase their knowledge of the world around them. That creates lifelong learners who turn into teachers who teach people to be lifelong learners. |
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08/10/2009 06:31:24 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by JEason:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Wouldn't it be better to improve the high school so colleges don't have to reteach things. Sure, some review is necessary but if you find most of the info is being repeated there's got to be something wrong. |
I fully agree! |
You improve high school's by attracting high quality teachers. If you get the top tier of societies brightest minds passing along their information and skills you will get better results. You get the top people by paying them top money. Do you want a $30,000 a year surgeon working on your body? Football players make big money because they are the top athletes. The teaching profession does not usually draw the "elite" minds and top teaching talents. Mostly because of people like RulerZigzag who think that education is a waste of every bodies time and money.
I for one would like to see an end to public education because private education could do a better job. Every year the President recognizes top students and most of them come from private schools. So let this be a warning to you about public health care. They will not do the job that private health care does. It will be just like public schooling. |
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08/10/2009 06:36:18 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
Originally posted by JEason:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Wouldn't it be better to improve the high school so colleges don't have to reteach things. Sure, some review is necessary but if you find most of the info is being repeated there's got to be something wrong. |
I fully agree! |
You improve high school's by attracting high quality teachers. If you get the top tier of societies brightest minds passing along their information and skills you will get better results. You get the top people by paying them top money. Do you want a $30,000 a year surgeon working on your body? Football players make big money because they are the top athletes. The teaching profession does not usually draw the "elite" minds and top teaching talents. Mostly because of people like RulerZigzag who think that education is a waste of every bodies time and money.
I for one would like to see an end to public education because private education could do a better job. Every year the President recognizes top students and most of them come from private schools. So let this be a warning to you about public health care. They will not do the job that private health care does. It will be just like public schooling. |
Let's leave public health care in the other thread.
Yes, having the best teachers is one aspect of a better education. However, curiculum has a tremendous influence on how well the school system works as well. More inspired curiculum, more interested teachers therefore better education in the long run.
Also, teachers who are in it because they want to teach are usually far better than those who are in it for the money.
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08/10/2009 06:51:46 PM · #47 |
This article is almost 20 years old, but its message obviously was not received, so I think its important that people need to read this again:
The Importance of Teaching
Some excerpts:
"We are all in favour of education but we tend to take for granted the people who provide it. If our society cares about the future, it will resume giving teachers the support and credit they deserve..."
"Teaching is not a lost art, but the regard for it is a lost tradition."
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08/10/2009 06:52:52 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Also, teachers who are in it because they want to teach are usually far better than those who are in it for the money. |
Tee hee.... thank God Im not in it for the money.... im not getting rich anytime soon. |
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08/10/2009 06:54:31 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Jason_Cross:
Originally posted by JEason:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Wouldn't it be better to improve the high school so colleges don't have to reteach things. Sure, some review is necessary but if you find most of the info is being repeated there's got to be something wrong. |
I fully agree! |
You improve high school's by attracting high quality teachers. If you get the top tier of societies brightest minds passing along their information and skills you will get better results. You get the top people by paying them top money. Do you want a $30,000 a year surgeon working on your body? Football players make big money because they are the top athletes. The teaching profession does not usually draw the "elite" minds and top teaching talents. Mostly because of people like RulerZigzag who think that education is a waste of every bodies time and money.
I for one would like to see an end to public education because private education could do a better job. Every year the President recognizes top students and most of them come from private schools. So let this be a warning to you about public health care. They will not do the job that private health care does. It will be just like public schooling. |
Let's leave public health care in the other thread.
Yes, having the best teachers is one aspect of a better education. However, curiculum has a tremendous influence on how well the school system works as well. More inspired curiculum, more interested teachers therefore better education in the long run.
Also, teachers who are in it because they want to teach are usually far better than those who are in it for the money. |
You get the best when you pay the best. That is true in every avenue. Sure there are some of us that are not in it for the money but for the love of teaching, but there is no way I could put food on the table being a teacher alone. That is not going to attract skill people to the profession. I am sure the best doctors don't do it for the money. But you really would not have many doctors if it didn't pay well. |
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08/11/2009 12:57:38 AM · #50 |
jason_cross you sound like the biggest hypocrite. And you shouldn't put words in other people's mouths when you yourself thinks public education is a waste of time. And high school level, public level. Speaking of colleges only, CUNY schools mostly. You said it yourself, I think the same, "Public Education" pal. Has nothing to do with "Education" you have misinterpreted, and assumed. Socialized education already exists, why do you think its so expensive to go to Ivy league schools, or other elite schools? Teachers teach what they were taught. The point here is that all should get the same education, regardless, whether private or public.
Message edited by author 2009-08-11 01:06:34. |
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