Was this talked about before? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

07/30/2009 12:47:44 AM · #1

Could we just NOT be able to vote the challenges we entered? Is it too much to ask (again)?

Reason: *Open for discussion*

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

07/30/2009 12:48:48 AM · #2

We have a low enough voter turnout as it is. Restricting it to non-participants would make it even worse.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

07/30/2009 12:50:20 AM · #3

It has been discussed.

The most recent reason against it is that someone (Bear Music, maybe/?????) pointed out that out of the number of voters on a particular challenge, most of them were participants.

To block them from 'voting' would likely reduce the number of votes received (which could be a good thing, or it could be a bad thing for the score)

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

07/30/2009 12:55:05 AM · #4

Originally posted by karmat:

...which could be a good thing, or it could be a bad thing for the score...

Should be a test run or something.

The reason I asked, I "sensed" that some of us just 'voting' low, even without knowing it, to be able to keep their own scores a bit higher. Now, if everyone do that, it probably neutralize itself (!)... I don't know.

Not a big deal, it's just made more sense when I think about it.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

07/30/2009 01:06:55 AM · #5

I usually give better than I get, and I enjoy 'voting' in the challenges I am entered in. I enjoy seeing everyone else's take on the subject. Once in a blue moon, if I feel I cannot vote fairly on a challenge, then I sit it out for 'voting'.

If it was done, I would probably vote more on the other topics, but the one I am entered in is generally the one I have more interest in.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

07/30/2009 01:15:52 AM · #6

Yes, we've talked about it. My policy is not to vote if I think I have a chance at any kind of score. Which is rare. But then I rarely vote, prefering words to numbers. Should I advance to prefering pictures to words, hmn ....

07/30/2009 01:17:11 AM · #7

Elimination 'voting' where the bottom "x" percentile gets eliminated daily leaving fewer images remaining as 'voting' progresses.

It would take some thought but I think that it would focus more attention to the remaining top-tiered images.

Maybe not for all challenges but certainly the free studies where there are 500 submissions on average.

Just a thought.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

07/30/2009 01:19:06 AM · #8

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

...If it was done, I would probably vote more on the other topics...

That also might be true, and probably would have you vote (judge) better without thinking about your entry. Not everyone thinks like you do, although I said "without knowing it" means that our entry might change how we vote in the same challenge we entered not knowing we're doing so.

Blue Moon

Canon EOS-40D

07/30/2009 01:40:36 AM · #9

nevermind, my idea has been done :p

Message edited by author 2009-07-30 01:42:06.

07/30/2009 01:45:26 AM · #10

Originally posted by Ivo:

And would reduce the chance of those actually needing the helpful comments getting them.

07/30/2009 01:48:48 AM · #11

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by Ivo:
Elimination 'voting' where the bottom "x" percentile gets eliminated daily leaving fewer images remaining as 'voting' progresses.

It would take some thought but I think that it would focus more attention to the remaining top-tiered images.

Maybe not for all challenges but certainly the free studies where there are 500 submissions on average.

Just a thought.

And would reduce the chance of those actually needing the helpful comments getting them.

And they get them now?

07/30/2009 01:50:54 AM · #12

Originally posted by FocusPoint:

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
...If it was done, I would probably vote more on the other topics...

That also might be true, and probably would have you vote (judge) better without thinking about your entry. Not everyone thinks like you do, although I said "without knowing it" means that our entry might change how we vote in the same challenge we entered not knowing we're doing so.

Well, if I suspect it'll affect how I vote (e.g. if I really like my bombing shot and feel a little bitter) I don't vote the challenge. But I've experimented, 'voting' without really paying attention to how anything compares to mine, and my votes pretty much match, or even surpass, the average I give in challenges I'm not entered in.

I'm very much against any idea that discourages or straight-out bars members from 'voting' and/or commenting. It's hard enough to get votes as it is, and the system works pretty well, on the whole. Yeah, there are always theories, but we've been told that stats don't bear them out.

07/30/2009 01:52:05 AM · #13

Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by Ivo:
Elimination 'voting' where the bottom "x" percentile gets eliminated daily leaving fewer images remaining as 'voting' progresses.

It would take some thought but I think that it would focus more attention to the remaining top-tiered images.

Maybe not for all challenges but certainly the free studies where there are 500 submissions on average.

Just a thought.

And would reduce the chance of those actually needing the helpful comments getting them.

And they get them now?

At least now they have a chance of getting them. Boot 'em out after one day and what chance do they have?
Personally, if this is ever implemented I won't enter or vote.

07/30/2009 01:57:30 AM · #14

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by Ivo:
Elimination 'voting' where the bottom "x" percentile gets eliminated daily leaving fewer images remaining as 'voting' progresses.

It would take some thought but I think that it would focus more attention to the remaining top-tiered images.

Maybe not for all challenges but certainly the free studies where there are 500 submissions on average.

Just a thought.

And would reduce the chance of those actually needing the helpful comments getting them.

And they get them now?

At least now they have a chance of getting them. Boot 'em out after one day and what chance do they have?
Personally, if this is ever implemented I won't enter or vote.

I really don't know what to say but let me ask this. Are you always this flexible? ;-)

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/30/2009 01:57:44 AM · #15

It might be something to do with percentage, but most of my "Avg (participants)" are lower than "Avg (non-participants)"

So far all of the challenges I looked were same, didn't look all of them and I know this is not the case always, but most, majority of my challenges are like that.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

07/30/2009 02:01:48 AM · #16

My average GIVEN in the last challenge I voted was 6.7. My score received? 5.2

And if we're going to drop the bottom x% of a challenge and just let the "good ones" get votes, a lot of my challenge entries would get dropped. I'd probably have to quit DPC and that would be very, very sad for me.

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX100

07/30/2009 02:07:51 AM · #17

Originally posted by Melethia:

Why would you quit when you could just maybe try harder?

I sincerely mean no disrespect but this passive aggressive stance exhibited by those wishing to reinforce mediocrity is quite disheartening. It HAS scared off much of the best talent that WAS on this site.

Yikes.

Message edited by author 2009-07-30 02:08:54.

spiritualspatula

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/30/2009 02:08:48 AM · #18

The real problem with the "drop the X percentile" is that it gives IMMENSE power to the first few voters and next to none to the later voters. It completely alters the strength of each vote and, in essence, dissolves any sense of democracy.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/30/2009 02:11:14 AM · #19

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

That is a niggle that would need to be ironed out as the "trolling" effect could certainly cause a problem. Aside from that, it would be no different than the "democracy" which governs us.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

07/30/2009 02:13:19 AM · #20

- Bottom third of the challenge. This was most definitely intentional on my part. You may think it sucks, I don't. A few others kinda liked it, too.

bspurgeon, finished two places below mine and was my top pick of the challenge - and the top pick by a few others as well. This definitely doesn't suck and deserves to be seen, not tossed aside in favor of something more appealing to the masses.

Do you see where I'm coming from with this?

MistyMucky

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/30/2009 02:19:06 AM · #21

Yes, the scores given by participants are usually lower than the ones from non-participants. My guess is that the own entry is often compared to the other entries and the balance is subjectively tilted towards the own entry. That's human and there is no evil intent there. But this comparison is probably also the reason why most people do vote in the first place! If you take that away, 'voting' loses interest.

Anyway, I do not see the problem of geting lower votes from participants. Surely all the other images do also get lower votes, therefore the final ranking of my entry and my ribbon chances should be exactly the same!

MistyMucky

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/30/2009 02:27:44 AM · #22

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Cool! More 'voting' power for Europe. Or sleepless Americans ;-)

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/30/2009 02:29:50 AM · #23

Originally posted by Melethia:

Ivo, I never enter a "mediocre" picture intentionally into a challenge. We are all trying! (Well, except for a few who do go for the brown on occasion, but they're only a very few!). My "style" quite often is not one that appeals to the masses, but it can on occasion appeal to a few. I do not wish to do anything about mediocrity, but I do NOT wish to reinforce conformity. Does that make sense?

- Bottom third of the challenge. This was most definitely intentional on my part. You may think it sucks, I don't. A few others kinda liked it, too.

by bspurgeon, finished two places below mine and was my top pick of the challenge - and the top pick by a few others as well. This definitely doesn't suck and deserves to be seen, not tossed aside in favor of something more appealing to the masses.

Do you see where I'm coming from with this?

Certainly, and I agree. Unfortunately the voters do not.

This is where the disconnect is in my opinion. The challenges are "photo competitions". Are they not? This is why ribbons are awarded. Look at that simple aspect.

I too am puzzled why some of my shots have scored low before. Obviously, the majority of the voters did not share my surprise.;-) That's okay ...... it happens. I'd rather the attention be given to those photos which earned the affection of the voters. Good for them and let them bask in the recognition. It is a success and serves to encourage greatness. The present 'voting' method does little more than distribute votes between those shots deserving attention and those which receive attention through obligation.

MistyMucky

Nikon D700

07/30/2009 02:47:54 AM · #24

Originally posted by Ivo:

I'd rather the attention be given to those photos which earned the affection of the voters. Good for them and let them bask in the recognition. It is a success and serves to encourage greatness. The present 'voting' method does little more than distribute votes between those shots deserving attention and those which receive attention through obligation.

A similar effect can be achieved with thumbnail 'voting' ;-)