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09/05/2009 01:44:50 AM · #851 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by mpeters:
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by Niten:
Why would you lie? You said the policy was 270 but its really 772. Why mislead people? I still don't believe it. |
I really don't care what you believe. And apparently you don't participate in this community enough to know the type of person I am. If you don't believe me, so be it. I was not misleading anyone or intentionally misleading anyone.
BTW: I said 277.98 not 270. And I should know; it came out of my checkbook not yours. |
That is a good rate Scott! And it sounds like excellent coverage. Any idea why you are able to get the reduced rate? 277 vs 772?
And Niten--- Scott is one of the most stand up guys on this site. If he says it's 277, then it is. |
Yes I can tell you it was because of the stimulus package that was passed after Obama took office. My wife lost her job and we were able to keep her plan for 18 months at 35%.
Even though I didn't vote for Obama and I do have issues with congress (both sides), good things can be done if we all try to work together.
ETA: Thank you for the complement. I just try to be myself. |
This is not entirely accurate and I'm sure you'll realize your error as the COBRA subsidy that is part of the A.R.R.A. that Obama passed 2/18/09 only lasts for up to 9 months.
Some other tidbits about the Subsidy are that a partial month is counted as entire month so that if your COBRA eligibility began 3/31/09 then you only get the subsidy for 8 months and 1 day. If as part of your severance package you were given company paid COBRA for 3 or 6 months the Obama subsidy runs concurrently so that you only get the 35% rate for either 6 or 3 months respectively after the company subsidy runs out.
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09/05/2009 08:32:31 AM · #852 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
That's all she knows how to do. Its like her every argument is "someone told me what I want to hear, so that's how it is." Just tons and tons of nonsense. |
Compared to those fact filled rebuttals that you proffer right??? GImme a break.
Ray |
Maybe you should take a little time a read back through the thread. There's your break. |
Trust me I have, and other than unsubstantiated drivel and anecdotal arguments, there truly isn't much to your arguments.
Ray |
Silly canadians. Did you guys just run out of shit to stick your noses in up there, ay?
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09/05/2009 09:14:45 AM · #853 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Silly canadians. Did you guys just run out of shit to stick your noses in up there, ay? |
The saying goes like Eh not Ay, and our involvement is called enlightenment... you should try it, it might just sway your rather skewed view of life in general.
Oh... and a good morning to you too :O) I would love to stick around, but my daughter and her friend want me to take them to the good ole USA... seems they want to go shopping. Can't say I ain't doing my part to help your economy.
Ray
Message edited by author 2009-09-05 09:16:28. |
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09/05/2009 08:54:52 PM · #854 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by mpeters:
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by Niten:
Why would you lie? You said the policy was 270 but its really 772. Why mislead people? I still don't believe it. |
I really don't care what you believe. And apparently you don't participate in this community enough to know the type of person I am. If you don't believe me, so be it. I was not misleading anyone or intentionally misleading anyone.
BTW: I said 277.98 not 270. And I should know; it came out of my checkbook not yours. |
That is a good rate Scott! And it sounds like excellent coverage. Any idea why you are able to get the reduced rate? 277 vs 772?
And Niten--- Scott is one of the most stand up guys on this site. If he says it's 277, then it is. |
Yes I can tell you it was because of the stimulus package that was passed after Obama took office. My wife lost her job and we were able to keep her plan for 18 months at 35%.
Even though I didn't vote for Obama and I do have issues with congress (both sides), good things can be done if we all try to work together.
ETA: Thank you for the complement. I just try to be myself. |
This is not entirely accurate and I'm sure you'll realize your error as the COBRA subsidy that is part of the A.R.R.A. that Obama passed 2/18/09 only lasts for up to 9 months.
Some other tidbits about the Subsidy are that a partial month is counted as entire month so that if your COBRA eligibility began 3/31/09 then you only get the subsidy for 8 months and 1 day. If as part of your severance package you were given company paid COBRA for 3 or 6 months the Obama subsidy runs concurrently so that you only get the 35% rate for either 6 or 3 months respectively after the company subsidy runs out. |
You are correct about that. I went back and re-read the program guidelines and COBRA was extended to 18 months but the discount (ARRA) is only for a maximum of 9 months. But nine months is better than none.
Thanks for pointing that out to me.
Scott |
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09/07/2009 08:47:03 PM · #855 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by Niten:
Why would you lie? You said the policy was 270 but its really 772. Why mislead people? I still don't believe it. |
I really don't care what you believe. And apparently you don't participate in this community enough to know the type of person I am. If you don't believe me, so be it. I was not misleading anyone or intentionally misleading anyone.
BTW: I said 277.98 not 270. And I should know; it came out of my checkbook not yours. |
First, You mislead people when you said " just payed my family insurance today ($277.98) which is family coverage and includes medical, prescription, vision, and dental. All most all of my medications are $5.00 for a months supply and some are $10.00 for a 90-day supply. I have not yet been denied any test or services by my insurance company." But then you said "
Regular price is $772 for a family of four." Clearly your company is paying the rest of it like is common. Lie might be a bit harsh but it was still an non-truth.
Your right I don't know who you are. The part about knowing you is funny. I can picture you being pulled over for speeding "Hey, Do you know who I am?"
You quivel over 7.98 so you can get in a shot about it coming out of your checkbook and not mine, then we learn that part of it did in fact come out of my checkbook. A simple thank you is all I ask in return. |
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09/07/2009 09:18:22 PM · #856 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by mpeters:
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by Niten:
Why would you lie? You said the policy was 270 but its really 772. Why mislead people? I still don't believe it. |
I really don't care what you believe. And apparently you don't participate in this community enough to know the type of person I am. If you don't believe me, so be it. I was not misleading anyone or intentionally misleading anyone.
BTW: I said 277.98 not 270. And I should know; it came out of my checkbook not yours. |
That is a good rate Scott! And it sounds like excellent coverage. Any idea why you are able to get the reduced rate? 277 vs 772?
And Niten--- Scott is one of the most stand up guys on this site. If he says it's 277, then it is. |
Yes I can tell you it was because of the stimulus package that was passed after Obama took office. My wife lost her job and we were able to keep her plan for 18 months at 35%.
Even though I didn't vote for Obama and I do have issues with congress (both sides), good things can be done if we all try to work together.
ETA: Thank you for the complement. I just try to be myself. |
Scott, you have been extraordinarily lucky, let me assure you.
If you want a wake-up call, just call up an agent and ask for a quote on health insurance for your family.
Most people who lose their jobs are eligible to keep their employer provided coverage under COBRA, but the price reflects their non-support and is generally prohibitive for someone who, coincidentally, just lost the job where they had coverage.
The man on the street who is over 35, has a family, and any kind of medical history at all is going to pay $1000 a month, and that won't be with dental & prescription......and the major medical generally won't kick in 'til you hit about $2500 out of YOUR pocket.
Tie that in with a seriously suburban address like outside of a really major city like L.A. Houstion, Boston, D.C., Chicago, or the like, and you'll see costs go up even more. |
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09/08/2009 05:00:21 PM · #857 |
Message edited by author 2009-09-08 17:35:57. |
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09/09/2009 04:55:38 AM · #858 |
The thing about healthcare is that it isn't just the insurance that is the problem. The manner in which costs and payments are negotiated with healthcare providers (hospitals) and insurance payers is crap too.
Medicare and Medicaid are both billed less than half the hospital's estimated cost for the procedure (varies greatly by state). Charity programs are even lower. Commercial insurance companies are slightly higher, but that depends upon how big the company is, because their relative size enables them to leverage the hospital into lowering the percentage of costs it must pay (patients won't go to a hospital if they don't have coverage there).
Further, even after the estimated cost is lowered, the amount the hospital actually receives varies. Neither Medicare or Medicaid pay the full amount. In order to keep up with all these decreases in payments, providers adjust the procedure rates each year to ensure they can stay in operation. Those individuals who do not have insurance and are not eligible for charity programs then bear a great burden because they are used to help balance the budget.
To compound things, there are a surprising number of individuals that can qualify for charitable programs and reduce their payment load by like 95% of cost, but refuse to turn in the required paperwork (which in my state is simple). Who eats this cost? The hospitals; and by extension, everybody else that goes there. Why don't they fill it out? Who knows. People also misrepresent themselves and simply don't care about the repercussions. Or get care and don't expect to ever pay for it.
How do I know these things? Because I work at a hospital doing all sorts of paperwork, financial included. My employer is very generous to its patients in regard to their financial situation, and in recent times we have been abused by individuals who have heard of our generosity. It's a painful situation to be in when you tell somebody that a battery of cardiac tests cannot be performed because their insurance refuses to pay, asking them if they wish to have the procedure even if they have to pay the full amount. It's also hard to tell a mother that her grade school daughter's surgery to repair a broken arm may not be covered. I know. I've done both, and you don't know how impossible it is and terrible it feels to tell a patient their procedure isn't medically necessary or will not be provided. What does that mean? It means that's what their insurance believes based on how much they will or won't pay out.
Something does have to be done. Where we're at now, everybody is being given the short end of the stick.
ETA: It's also worthy to note that healthcare is an example of where competition isn't always good. Profit margins for hospitals are surprisingly small, and with the increasing need for facilities to market themselves, they are needlessly upgrading to say they have the newest equipment. Newest does NOT mean best, but it always means most expensive. The populace is uninformed about medical care and the many things that go into it, especially burgeoning technologies, and they gobble up this "newest equipment" BS. Because facilities oddly need to attract the ill, there is a certain amount of persuasion needed, and this is just that. But all this is really doing is driving an unnecessary push for equipment that does not necessarily show a clear advantage in diagnosis or treatment. I'm not saying new technology isn't useful, nor am I saying this is always the case, but there is definitely waste going on.
Message edited by author 2009-09-09 05:37:53. |
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09/09/2009 06:14:12 AM · #859 |
| Haven't finished reading it, but there seems to be some merit HERE. Ignore the party line D after his name and let's talk about this one for a bit. |
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09/09/2009 06:51:41 AM · #860 |
Originally posted by Niten:
Originally posted by SDW:
BTW: I said 277.98 not 270. And I should know; it came out of my checkbook not yours. |
First, You mislead people when you said " just payed my family insurance today ($277.98) which is family coverage and includes medical, prescription, vision, and dental. All most all of my medications are $5.00 for a months supply and some are $10.00 for a 90-day supply. I have not yet been denied any test or services by my insurance company." But then you said "
Regular price is $772 for a family of four." Clearly your company is paying the rest of it like is common. Lie might be a bit harsh but it was still an non-truth.
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I wouldn't call you a liar but your statement WAS misleading. Enough so, that I was going to pm you and ask where I could get the same plan.
Eric-of the few issues I have your position two stand out.
You keep referring to a Health Care Plan as a handout. I think that is a poor and unfair way to look at it. We're not talking candy or free government cheese, so to categorize it as you have, is distorted and not terribly humane. It's equivalent to calling city parks, schools, library books and so forth handouts. Healthcare is a pretty basic need more so than other services the government provides you especially given our Nations wealth and the fact that it's 2009. I saw some asshole waving a sign calling it Afro-Leninism. Please tell me you don't believe or side with that guy...please?
The second part is your hatred of illegal aliens. I do believe they should be made legal...they should pay taxes but to look at them as if they're the core of the nations problems is incorrect on so many levels.
This group of people pick and pack your vegetables, they make your clothing, they clean offices and homes etc. All they want to do is work and when they work, they usually work very hard for very little. They don't actually ask that much from life. They certainly aren't greedy. I'm no fan of our welfare system but to vilify these hard working characters, is twisted.
The point is that you've lumped or smashed them into what's formulating your views on Health Care and they have little place in the debate. At least it's unfair to me or the other folks who could use help that have posted in this thread.
Healthcare's ills are breaking the back of our country. Part of the Auto Industries decline was based on healthcare expenditures. Many companies soon will not be able to afford these costs any longer and start laying people off the keep up with the price.
My main concern is that we don't pay more than $350 a month per person (as a base price point) and the Republican Party seem pretty content doing nothing. It's no mystery that they have a great deal at stake in any failures of the President and seem pretty intent to bring him down. I don't think that debatable.
If Obama proposed a sunny day, they would vote "NO".
Message edited by author 2009-09-09 07:51:12. |
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09/09/2009 10:30:22 AM · #861 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Eric-of the few issues I have your position two stand out.
You keep referring to a Health Care Plan as a handout. I think that is a poor and unfair way to look at it. We're not talking candy or free government cheese, so to categorize it as you have, is distorted and not terribly humane. It's equivalent to calling city parks, schools, library books and so forth handouts. Healthcare is a pretty basic need more so than other services the government provides you especially given our Nations wealth and the fact that it's 2009. I saw some asshole waving a sign calling it Afro-Leninism. Please tell me you don't believe or side with that guy...please? |
Here is the first point that we absolutely disagree on. Heath care cannot and should not be misconstrued as any give right, or as something that you are owed unless you have done everything in your power to make yourself healthy. Why the hell should my tax dollars go toward some fat assholes bariatric surgery just because he won't put the fucking twinkies down and get off his ass? Why should my tax dollars go toward paying for an ICU of some crack whore that has made a lifetime of bad decisions and has now ended up with an MI and is near death...AGAIN. Why? How is that my government serving me? Its not. Its a fucking handout. Sure, health care is a need. But its primarily a need of a population that has spent its life making poor decisions and looking to blame someone else for those decisions. In addition, this public-option bullshit does not even remotely come close to guaranteeing health care. It guarantees health care insurance. Look at the ramifications of dumping 46 million (50 million if your a democrat and want to add drama) into a system that is already stressed and broken. Public option health care insurance only offers a fulfilled campaign promise. It doesn't even begin to touch the broken parts of the system. It only piles one more problem onto the broken camel's back.
As far as the Afro-Leninism; I haven't heard that one yet. But no, I don't agree with that at all. I don't care about color; I don't really care about what side of the party aisle you sit on. I only care that we find a solution, or the beginning of a solution that is fiscally sound and sustainably responsible. Government ran health care insurance is neither. Hell, my last posting was that a democrat had some good ideas in his proposal for the foundation of reform. I have a lot more respect for a though out plan than I do for some asshole berating congress to pass a bullshit bill before the session breaks so we can avoid imminent financial collapse. That was nothing more than ramming an attempt at checking off a campaign promise down our throats before we could think about it. Plain and simple. If he comes out tonight and draws a line in the sand that the public option is the only way, fuck him. He needs to evaluate all the ideas on the table and listen to people that understand the finances of this country.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
The second part is your hatred of illegal aliens. I do believe they should be made legal...they should pay taxes but to look at them as if they're the core of the nations problems is incorrect on so many levels.
This group of people pick and pack your vegetables, they make your clothing, they clean offices and homes etc. All they want to do is work and when they work, they usually work very hard for very little. They don't actually ask that much from life. They certainly aren't greedy. I'm no fan of our welfare system but to vilify these hard working characters, is twisted.
The point is that you've lumped or smashed them into what's formulating your views on Health Care and they have little place in the debate. At least it's unfair to me or the other folks who could use help that have posted in this thread.
Healthcare's ills are breaking the back of our country. Part of the Auto Industries decline was based on healthcare expenditures. Many companies soon will not be able to afford these costs any longer and start laying people off the keep up with the price.
My main concern is that we don't pay more than $350 a month per person (as a base price point) and the Republican Party seem pretty content doing nothing. It's no mystery that they have a great deal at stake in any failures of the President and seem pretty intent to bring him down. I don't think that debatable. |
Funny that you bring up illegal immigrants as an argument of mine. I only mentioned illegals once and referred to them once again. Here are the quotes:
"I'm guessing that you also believe that they add no additional stress to our educational system either, huh? Illegals will always cost the country and give nothing in return." Which I believe, but it has no real bearing, at least in my mind, to the argument of health care reform.
Seconldy, Vitamin B pointed out the bogus claims of insuring illegals and ordering death panels. To which I responded:
"Again, these are not the main points of the argument against this idiotic bill. The bill will cost a ridiculous amount of money and cannot be sustained over time without taxing all of us more. It will provide insurance, sure, but it will cause a loss of access to care. That's the argument."
But, since you brought it up...illegals do cross the border ILLEGALLY. If you can't follow the basic rules of entering and exiting the country, you have no fucking business being here. I dated a girl from Uzbekistan a few years before I got married....boy was she a hottie, but I digress. She and her entire family fled the area in search of a better life. Her and her entire family came here, learned the language, kept their visas in order and became part of the productive population of the United States. They are all United States citizens now. Was it easy? Hell no. I stayed up with her many, many nights helping her study for an exam that I couldn't possibly pass, but they all came here LEGALLY. Coming here illegally makes you no different in my eyes than a common street thug, murderer, or child molester. All those guys also commit their crimes to make their lives and personal little worlds better to them. There is no difference. It is all illegal. Even still, my gripe is not with illegal immigrants. It is with social parasites. I have never ran a call to a government funded apartment to find a Hispanic family playing their Wii on their 60" plasma while sitting on the leather sofa with the surround sound kicked up to 11. The Hispanics I served were packed into an apartment that they paid for with money they earned. The main problem with illegals is that their children stress our public education system. They also play a small role in flooding the health care market, but that small portion is easily handled. I am not sure where you deducted that social parasite = illegal immigrant, but I would recommend that you reconsider your subconscious thought process and stay focused on the issue at hand.
Also, I call bullshit on blaming the decline of the auto industry on health care costs. Let's try ridiculous executive bonuses and union wages first. $90,000 a year to work an assembly line...gimme a break.
If you add a public option plan into our current health care system, you won't be paying anywhere near $350 per month for insurance per person. It will easily be double that when you consider taxes and the passed on costs of doctors and hospitals covering more people who pay nothing. In addition, you'll probably get to wait a long, long time to get any health care at all.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
If Obama proposed a sunny day, they would vote "NO". |
That is a completely fabricated lie. First they (and somewhat we) would ask for a cost analysis...then cast the "NO" vote. ;)
My argument is that the public option plan for health care is not only unreasonable, it is also grossly irresponsible. We cannot afford to maintain it with our generation. Times like these make me very, very glad that I chose not to have children. I'd already be sad and embarrassed for the cluster fuck that they are getting handed. But hey, what's another $10 trillion here and there...right?
Edited for spelling...at least some of the spelling.
Message edited by author 2009-09-09 10:31:23. |
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09/09/2009 10:30:25 AM · #862 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Haven't finished reading it, but there seems to be some merit HERE. Ignore the party line D after his name and let's talk about this one for a bit. |
I am told these are not the same plans as being refered to but still an interesting start.
cliff notes
Message edited by author 2009-09-09 12:34:24. |
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09/09/2009 10:57:26 AM · #863 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
If you add a public option plan into our current health care system, you won't be paying anywhere near $350 per month for insurance per person. It will easily be double that when you consider taxes and the passed on costs of doctors and hospitals covering more people who pay nothing. In addition, you'll probably get to wait a long, long time to get any health care at all.
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You can't buy a policy now for double $350.
Is it really fair for someone working for a small company to have to pay 4x as much as someone who works for a large company?
What should be a reasonable amount to expect to pay for an insurance policy?
I'm not sure any of these plans are getting us where we need to be but maybe we can make a few steps. It would be nice if everyone came to the table and get some real reform.
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09/09/2009 11:19:35 AM · #864 |
Originally posted by Niten:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Haven't finished reading it, but there seems to be some merit HERE. Ignore the party line D after his name and let's talk about this one for a bit. |
cliff notes |
I think the Baucus white paper linked to by eric (dated Nov. 2008) and the Baucus bill referred to by the cliff notes you posted (which I assume is authored in 2009) are two radically different plans. The white paper calls for Medicaid to be expanded immediately to include anyone age 55-65 who wants to buy into it; the bill apparently does not expand Medicaid until 2014 and limits eligibility based on income. The white paper doesn't include co-ops as far as I can tell, and includes a scaled-back version of a government option as part of a health care exchange; the bill apparently relies on non-profit co-ops exclusively and no public plan. |
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09/09/2009 12:06:45 PM · #865 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
My argument is that the public option plan for health care is not only unreasonable, it is also grossly irresponsible. We cannot afford to maintain it with our generation. Times like these make me very, very glad that I chose not to have children. I'd already be sad and embarrassed for the cluster fuck that they are getting handed. But hey, what's another $10 trillion here and there...right?
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Good...you made it easy.
Keeping our nation healthy should NEVER be considered irresponsible. The rest of the civilized world sees it quite differently. If they, who we are failing to compete with at just about every level, can provide the service, so can we. Actually, taking care of your fellow man and countryman is the exact model of being responsible and I'm not sure how you see it the opposite way. The Judaeo-Christian ethic that we claim our country is steeped and built upon seems to be lost on many of you. I simply call it being a civilized human being. We're a little past the caveman stage...one would hope.
So, only fat people get sick? Skinny people don't suffer from heart disease...children don't get cancer? I agree we should all live healthier but keep in mind, fat people have added substantially to my premiums, as well. So what's your point? It's a weak, asinine reason not to offer healthcare since you're making the presumption that all the uninsured don't live healthy lives. AND if they did, would you still be against covering them? Fwiw, Obama was one of the first...perhaps only candidate speaking about getting people healthy before they went to an emergency room, during his campaign. Something nobody else ever brought up (except maybe John Edwards) so you should appreciate that. He also brought to his table, advisers and a number of CEO's who have improved their companies entire profiles by addressing that exact issue.
You speak of fiscal responsibility? Did you have any feelings about the fiscal irresponsibility of the previous administration? Or is this a new chew toy?
Again, as I've said, if you don't trust the government fine, just say that but all the other bullshit doesn't hold much water. It's mostly hearsay, conjecture and non-events that have been blown out of proportion.
The Republican debate has been mean-spirited and shameless, attacking big government spending while taking no blame for their own. I have no love for the far left but they aren't nearly as mean and they don't rely as heavily on dirty tricks, even though there's plenty of game playing on both sides. Democrats can certainly be full of shit but they don't go for the jugular. That's always been their problem...they don't know how to play rough.
If there's anything you should be embarrassed about it's that many Americans still think Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 and the same folks don't understand that Medicare IS a government run program.
Irresponsible, would be to do nothing. Health Care, as it stands is breaking the country's back. That's a fact you can look up.
eta: 
Is this a picture of you?
Message edited by author 2009-09-09 16:40:47. |
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09/09/2009 06:23:46 PM · #866 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Keeping our nation healthy should NEVER be considered irresponsible. |
Do you not see the blind naivety of that message regarding the addition of a public option plan? Free health insurance does no more to guarantee health care. Why is that so unclear? How does a 10+ trillion dollar program keep our nation healthy? I'll answer. It doesn't.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Actually, taking care of your fellow man and countryman is the exact model of being responsible and I'm not sure how you see it the opposite way. |
I agree that sometimes people need a helping hand. I take no issues with that. What I take issue with is the fact that our government ran programs tend to breed the parasitic behavior that I hate. Why do things for yourself and seek a better life when the government is willing to do it all for you?
Originally posted by pawdrix:
So, only fat people get sick? Skinny people don't suffer from heart disease...children don't get cancer? I agree we should all live healthier but keep in mind, fat people have added substantially to my premiums, as well. So what's your point? It's a weak, asinine reason not to offer healthcare since you're making the presumption that all the uninsured don't live healthy lives. AND if they did, would you still be against covering them? |
Nope. You get 'em all healthy and I'll change my stance on insurance handouts. Our country as a whole is far from a healthy lifestyle. What percentage of out population is overweight/obese right now? Of those in that population grouping, what percentage of those are part of the uninsured?
Originally posted by pawdrix:
You speak of fiscal responsibility? Did you have any feelings about the fiscal irresponsibility of the previous administration? Or is this a new chew toy? |
Yep. I had many, many problems with the B2 administration. However, I also didn't see him trying to handout 10 trillion dollars, which the senate finance committee says is a horrible low estimate, in health care insurance. A program that doesn't even bother to address the issues with the health care delivery system.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Again, as I've said, if you don't trust the government fine, just say that but all the other bullshit doesn't hold much water. It's mostly hearsay, conjecture and non-events that have been blown out of proportion. |
So, if you don't believe it, it didn't happen? If that's the case, would you also stop believing in a struggling economy. I need my Fannie May stock to hit $69/share again soon.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
The Republican debate has been mean-spirited and shameless, attacking big government spending while taking no blame for their own. I have no love for the far left but they aren't nearly as mean and they don't rely as heavily on dirty tricks, even though there's plenty of game playing on both sides. Democrats can certainly be full of shit but they don't go for the jugular. That's always been their problem...they don't know how to play rough. |
Their all politicians. They all use the same tricks.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
If there's anything you should be embarrassed about it's that many Americans still think Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 and the same folks don't understand that Medicare IS a government run program. |
There are also people who believe that a government administered health care insurance program is beneficial for the country. Now that's embarrassing.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Irresponsible, would be to do nothing. Health Care, as it stands is breaking the country's back. That's a fact you can look up. |
The back is already broken. Adding more strain to a failing system is not the answer no matter how many idiots tell you that it is. I am not a proponent for doing nothing, though the system works just fine for me. I work my ass off...I get benefits in return
eta:
Is this a picture of you? [/quote]
Yep, that's me in response to some asinine thread suggesting more gun control. That was just over 2 years and about 70 pounds ago as well.
This is ALSO a picture of me. That one was about 9 months and 35 pounds ago. Where are we headed with this one? Weight issues or gun control? Surely this isn't another democratic diversionary tactic, is it? |
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09/09/2009 06:58:34 PM · #867 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Do you not see the blind naivety of that message regarding the addition of a public option plan? Free health insurance does no more to guarantee health care. |
I haven't heard anyone proposing "free" health insurance. Come on ... |
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09/10/2009 02:31:18 AM · #868 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
[quote=pawdrix] [thumb]568267[/thumb]
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I've lived the cleanest life one could possibly imagine. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't curse. Why are my premiums so high? |
One reason is NY has one of the highest tax rates for businesses and people thus causing your rates to be higher.
There are also other factors besides your health or how well you take care of yourself that factors into the premium rate.
Actuaries take in account ones area in which they live, their family medical history, credit, health history, any criminal convictions, and more. |
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09/10/2009 02:34:01 AM · #869 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
I guess its jut because karma is paying you back for being such an asshole. I hope the dividends continue there for you. Here's a shot to your premiums doubling in a year's time. |
Well, you were talking about healthy living...
If we put you or your wife on a scale...or your best friends...your favorite cousin/uncle and they were 5, 10... 30...50 pounds overweight (based on what people should weigh by height), would it be cool if we tagged $100 extra onto their premiums a month, per 15 lbs (out of their checks) ?
I can work with that. That would be fair. |
What about the people that are overweight that has no control over being overweight? |
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09/10/2009 02:40:38 AM · #870 |
Originally posted by SDW:
What about the people that are overweight that has no control over being overweight? |
Eric didn't provide a way to include or exclude them but I'd say include them. |
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09/10/2009 03:18:41 AM · #871 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by SDW:
What about the people that are overweight that has no control over being overweight? |
Eric didn't provide a way to include or exclude them but I'd say include them. |
The reason I ask is because I'm overweight. I was told by the doctors when I was given steroids for my back and neck and other medication that I would put on about 50 lbs.; well I did. I eat less than my wife, which by the way only weights 120 lbs. and fit. My back keeps me from being able to stand for more than five to fifteen minutes in one place or walk very far.
It's bad. I have dreams of running and walking. I have given up photography because I can't get the shot I need. I worked three plus years after the doctors told me to go on disability because I didn't want to give up. But one day I had to give in and let my pride go. I would give a million dollars to be back at my ideal weight and healthy but that's out of my control.
From 2000 to 2003 I watched my life as I knew it fade. Went from being a high-up manager to a sales associate; about a $40k cut in pay because I didn't want to stop working...I didn't want to give up. Then leave a ten year career for another job that possibly could give me more flexibility to see if that would work; it didn't. So ultimately here I am nine years latter feeling that I have burdened my family and my parents. My father went to his grave not seeing me get better. Low income, below poverty line. Due to my neck, back, and shoulder problems not able to play with my children like a real dad should during there development years. Do you think I feel bad, hell yea. Am I burdening other tax payers because of my health issues? yes and no. No in the sense I pay part of my premiums but yes because I get the 35% discount. NO, to medicare because I work from 15 year of age till I had to retire; I paid my FICA taxes each and every year. I hope one day to work again, walk without pain, feel the wind when I run, stand for more than a few minutes without beads of sweet forming on my forehead because of the back pain. I will do everything in my power to get there but until then I feel I have let a lot of people down.
With all that said, I have been stripped of my male pride. |
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09/10/2009 03:57:00 AM · #872 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Asshole. |
I've always paid my bills. Always have, always will.
I just think on the whole, as a society, we can do a better job of taking care of one another. |
I think you can stop whining and take care of yourself. I don't care how much you pay. I am sure you have earned every penny of the cost. Maybe you should give your money away since you care so much. Me, I'll just keep mine. |
I hear ya. Your contribution is duly noted.
NEXT!
Message edited by author 2009-09-10 04:00:15. |
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09/10/2009 07:00:36 AM · #873 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I've always paid my bills. Always have, always will.
I just think on the whole, as a society, we can do a better job of taking care of one another. |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
I think you can stop whining and take care of yourself. I don't care how much you pay. I am sure you have earned every penny of the cost. Maybe you should give your money away since you care so much. Me, I'll just keep mine. |
Eric, you were doing okay there for a while......you were using some reason and justification for your views.
Then you got caught out by your own life's experiences and you got ugly about it.
If you were 70+ pounds overweight, then you *will* have issues from it......and you know that.
Yet you want to crucify everyone else who has/had a weight problem for their bad decisions?
I would think if you have any compassion for your fellow man at all, you would be more understanding of how hard it is to deal with a weight problem.
Not everyone who has medical issues has them as the result of bad decisions and/or choosing to not take care of themselves.
Not everyone has the good fortune to be able to rise above their lot in life and become whatever they want.
You can be born into a situation that you cannot do anything about, and like it or not, you get to deal with the reality of putting money forth that you don't get to decide how it's spent.
What about people who have to pay school taxes who don't have children? Is that fair?
What about all the years I've paid into unemployment compensation and never collected a dime in benefits?
How about if I die before I'm eligible for Social Security?
Wake up, you don't get to have everything your way; it *is* time that the health insurance industry was seriously shaken up, and whether you like it or not, or want to admit it or not, the governmet has a much better track record of dealing with the medical profession than insurance companies do. (See Medicare and the VA.)
Yes, the systems are flawed, but I have enough confidence that we as a nation can work something out that would be far more beneficial and reasonable than what those people in private insurance do to us now.
But you really have to take your personal issues out of it and get used to the idea that it's NOT going to go your way.
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
You say that health CARE needs to be escalated, not health coverage......fine, what's your idea?
Message edited by scalvert - Forum violation quote removed. |
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09/10/2009 07:08:53 AM · #874 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I've lived the cleanest life one could possibly imagine. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't curse. Why are my premiums so high? |
Originally posted by SDW:
One reason is NY has one of the highest tax rates for businesses and people thus causing your rates to be higher.
There are also other factors besides your health or how well you take care of yourself that factors into the premium rate.
Actuaries take in account ones area in which they live, their family medical history, credit, health history, any criminal convictions, and more. |
I'm pretty sure that was a rhetorical question.......8>)
That's part of Steve's point.....the unfairness of how so much of what insurance costs are all about.
I paid through the nose for the most minimal of coverage for myself and my family simply because I was one person, with two dependents.
I was completely at their mercy, because I wasn't some giant conglomerate with 70,000 employees that was in a position to shop around. Insurance companies don't give a shit about John Doe.....they want Big Business.
So the very people who most need reasonable rates, can NOT get them.
That's neither right, nor fair.
So what's wrong with some sort of equitable distribution?
I fully support the premise that cosmetic and elective procedures should be dealt with on a case by case basis with some stringent guidelines, but I don't think it should be tough noogies for a small businessman who just plain cannot afford $10K+ a year for basic coverage.
I like the idea of rewarding people for their best efforts to take care of themselves as well.
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09/10/2009 08:30:21 AM · #875 |
One solution to the problem would be to have in place a regulation or law such as Medicare has. Medicare by Law can not go up no more that the cost of living raise one receives with social security.
A lot has been said about the rising rates of health coverage and how it is out pacing the cost of living. It they would put in place a law like Medicare has then the insurance companies could not raise their rates above cost of living.
An good example would be 2010. Social Security recipients will not get a cost of living raise because for the year 2009 they have calculated that we suffered deflation. Since there will be no cost of living raise Medicare premiums can not be raised in 2010, they will remain $96.40. The same as 2009.
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