New Gig..help and advice welcome!

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/13/2009 10:59:02 PM · #1

OMgoodness. I just got a call from a friend of my daughter. He is the assistant GM of the new baseball team the Hamilton Joes. They are a Great Lakes League of top collegiate players. They use wooden bats and have support from MLB as well. The Hamilton Joes are named after Joe Nuxall, a much beloved former Reds player and announcer from our city.

As of tonight...I am their official photographer. AHHHHHH!!!! Tomorrow, I go to a fund raiser at Ryans Tavern here in town. The guest of honor is former Red's player Sean Casey. I am a HUGE Cincinnati Reds fan and love baseball. Anyone who has seen my Pbase gallery knows that I enjoy taking shots with local flavor to them...parades, events etc. So this seems like a pretty good fit.

They had a photographer, but apparently there was a misunderstanding about something and it got rather heated. I hope it wasn't someone here! He took with him all the original shots they took, including the head shots...so I'll be doing that tomorrow before the game.

Anyway...it's not a paid position. However I have the opportunity to create and market any Joes' promo pieces I want to sell using my photography...with their approval.

I'm so excited, but also nervous. I've done little sport photography (although this will probably be easier than volleyball...I hope.) He understands my status as relatively inexperienced, but we both agreed that if it doesn't work out, no hard feelings. I figure nothing ventured nothing gained and to be the "official photographer" of a local team probably would open many other opportunities if I can prepare for them.

So ~ deep breath ~ I need a few things. Well wishes and encouragement, any and all advice and practical info. Mostly......anything you can tell me about developing the promo stuff to sell. I've done framed prints for shows, but never mass printing of commercial or team type products. I was told I could also get the team to autograph items for sale. I also have the rights to use the team logo graphics in conjunction with my photo stuff.

Fund raiser tomorrow and first game tomorrow night. I did get the Canon 70-200 2.8 to use with the converter so I will be testing it out to see how it works. Since I haven't been at the field, I don't really know if the reach of the 70-200 will be sufficient for the rest of the games.

I'm so excited!!!

Message edited by author 2009-06-13 23:14:31.

LadyK

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/13/2009 11:05:26 PM · #2

ahhh im so excited for you! if you want to go check out some merchandise-y stuff mpix has a few items, but probably nothing as big scale as this:) very cool, cant WAIT to see your photos! that is an awesome lens you have, i love mine, and the extender makes like 10 times awesomer:)

Prof_Fate

06/13/2009 11:54:36 PM · #3

You'll probably want the 400 2.8 lens...but you won't want the bill that comes with it.
Depends on where you can be for photos - these are bigger folks than kids so that helps, but the field is bigger too, but then it's probably well lit at night.

Interesting it's not a paid position. There is a thread on anotehr forum about a minor league team that needs a photographer as their last guy quit. They'll pay in tickets. I wonder if the teams' GM or coach works for tickets? Do the ushers or ticket takers? Probably not. It's amazing that photographers will work for free, i mean, the 'experience'. Yeah, it sounds like a lot of fun and you will learn a lot and hopefully turn it into something, but I don't think I can get someone to cut my grass for the 'exposure' they'll get cause I"m on a main road and run a business from my house. Photographers are such sill people. LOL

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you can develop and sell stuff...do they not now sell tshirts or hats or anything? I would think if there was a market and money to be made they'd be doing it.

Good luck and enjoy it!

06/14/2009 12:36:04 AM · #4

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

This is a brand new team with 4 paid positions (according to the assistant GM, who is the guy I know.) The GM, the assistant GM, I'd guess the manager...who else, I'm not sure. Trainer? It's pretty much a grass roots operation right now, which is part of my reason for doing it. I'm a big "get the hometown going" and promote the good family stuff kind of person. I believe they do have hats and t shirts but I will be the only one able to do anything for profit with my photos...team pics, autographed 8x10's, posters - not sure what else is out there yet.

My daughter does marketing, and also likes baseball. I'm thinking of teaming up with her as a partner so I don't have to do it all myself. She's probably better in photoshop than I am as far as graphics and presentation, and I don't think I'm a slouch. She could do the sales while I do the photography.

I do get to meet Sean Casey...that makes it worthwhile right there :)

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

06/14/2009 12:37:55 AM · #5

Oh...and yes..I'm worried about the reach factor, especially for outfield. Hopefully, once I see what I will need, I'll be able to work out a doable solution if the 70-200 isn't long enough. No purchasing the 400, that's for sure!

MattO

Nikon D4

06/14/2009 12:50:47 AM · #6

He shot with a 30D and 70-200 with a 1.4. I prefer to shoot really tight and use compression to blow out the backgrounds. You will never reach anything in the outfield with 280MM on a 1.6 crop unless it happens in the shallow end of the outfield next to the dugout you are shooting from(if they don't have photowells).

Matt

I think you have a lot of work ahead of you, it can be fun but also a lot of work.

06/14/2009 01:01:00 AM · #7

Originally posted by MattO:

Just to give you an idea of what kind of reach you will need. I recently shot at a Low A game with a friend who is a photographer for the team. I shot with a 1DMKIII and a 300F2.8 with a 1.4 to get these shots from the dugout.

He shot with a 30D and 70-200 with a 1.4. I prefer to shoot really tight and use compression to blow out the backgrounds. You will never reach anything in the outfield with 280MM on a 1.6 crop unless it happens in the shallow end of the outfield next to the dugout you are shooting from(if they don't have photowells).

Matt

I think you have a lot of work ahead of you, it can be fun but also a lot of work.

Depending on the quality of my work and the success of the team, I may talk to the management about renting the longer lenses for me to use during the season...at least a several games. I'll just have to see how it goes.

What is interesting to me is that all along, I did not start photography as a business but it has sort of "pursued" me. I have been a Realtor for 12 years and enjoy it. However, for a variety of reasons I just this week put my license as inactive. The timing of this offer has lead me to jump in and test the waters. We'll see if I sink or swim.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

06/14/2009 01:05:01 AM · #8

HERE is a link to one of this season's Reds games. Photos taken from my seat, just with my Sigma 70-200. I also have a gallery there of volleyball. Not a total newbie at sports, but it will be an education I'm sure.

MattO

Nikon D4

06/14/2009 01:33:28 AM · #9

Originally posted by jpochard:

I'm not suggesting that you are a noob, I'm suggesting is what you are undertaking is pretty big. Adding to the issue that you are under equipped for action right off the bat might make it harder. However a lot of what your marketing shots would entail can easily be done with your current equipment, but if you plan on doing game action, especially at night you need at MIN 300F2.8, 400F2.8. F4 isn't going to cut it with lighting done at these parks. Unless you can shoot all day games that is. Take a look at the MiLB pages to get an idea of what their unpaid photogs hand them to get an idea of what gets used and what sells. Also if there is a local MiLB team check out their gift shop trading cards and what not.

Matt

06/14/2009 01:42:39 AM · #10

Matt...thanks very much for the information. I agree about the work. Pretty much any event photography is tiring stuff I think. Weddings wear me to the bone...so I don't think this will be quite that bad :)

yeah..I didn't mean to say you called me a newbie...I pretty much am one, but not totally. My concern as always is to get some quality shots. I will do the best with what I have and then determine what else I might need. If I feel like I really cannot provide for them some good marketable and usable shots, I will be bowing out.

Again...thanks for the comments. I love your sports stuff and I appreciate the advice :)

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by jpochard:
HERE is a link to one of this season's Reds games. Photos taken from my seat, just with my Sigma 70-200. I also have a gallery there of volleyball. Not a total newbie at sports, but it will be an education I'm sure.

I'm not suggesting that you are a noob, I'm suggesting is what you are undertaking is pretty big. Adding to the issue that you are under equipped for action right off the bat might make it harder. However a lot of what your marketing shots would entail can easily be done with your current equipment, but if you plan on doing game action, especially at night you need at MIN 300F2.8, 400F2.8. F4 isn't going to cut it with lighting done at these parks. Unless you can shoot all day games that is. Take a look at the MiLB pages to get an idea of what their unpaid photogs hand them to get an idea of what gets used and what sells. Also if there is a local MiLB team check out their gift shop trading cards and what not.

Matt

Prof_Fate

06/14/2009 11:11:50 AM · #11

Originally posted by jpochard:

I find it interesting, not to single you out but to use your situation as an example, of the line of bull that outfits pout out there.
Call up a lawyer and tell him your a new company, a startup, a grass roots type deal and need free legal services. I don't think you'll get any.
Try that for an accountant...or to get your studio landscaped...

Perhaps B&H will help the team by giving them the long lens you'll need! I don't think so, do you?

It's just I keep seeing photographers giving away their time, their work, to organizations that will pay others for their services. Why is that? What is in the makeup of a photographer's personality that makes us crave attention and recognition?

Message edited by author 2009-06-14 11:14:44.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

06/14/2009 11:36:58 AM · #12

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

It's just I keep seeing photographers giving away their time, their work, to organizations that will pay others for their services. Why is that? What is in the makeup of a photographer's personality that makes us crave attention and recognition?

I can only answer for myself. I do actually donate my time for organizations I like to support, feel are worthwhile and need photography services. These have included my church, Habitat for Humanity and the American Heart Association. It usually involves no cost for myself other than time and talent - although I have also donated framed prints for various sales and auctions. I feel blessed to have been given the photography opportunities I have and I'm grateful for a skill or "gift" which can be shared or used in this way. Also, since I have now started keeping financial records for my photography income and expenses, have started keeping track of these types of donations and have the organization sign off on a value receipt as a donation.

I have also bartered services. I've traded photography services for catering, tree service, tile work, car mechanical work, resort condo accomodations and professional cake decorating. Something like that is more likely what I would do in the scenerios you put forth with new businesses looking for a "hand out." Being my own boss allows me that flexibility.

That being said, this gig is a little bit in between a donation and business. I hope to make a profit and plan to maximize opportunities to do so - however, I planned to be at these games anyway because I enjoy the game and will enjoy the extra access, the photo opportunities, and promoting a local family activity. For me the trade off is a greater level of comittment for the chance to make some money, have better access for better photos and also get my name out there for other business opportunities.

And last, but not least, if I am searching for some experience building in a particular arena of photography and am given the opportunity to be there, I am more likely to volunteer my services. I always make sure my lack of experience is well communicated and by not getting paid for those events, I AM a volunteer and not a paid contractor with expectations of professional level results. Therefore it is more self serving than generous.

MattO

Nikon D4

06/14/2009 11:39:50 AM · #13

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Originally posted by jpochard:

This is a brand new team with 4 paid positions (according to the assistant GM, who is the guy I know.) The GM, the assistant GM, I'd guess the manager...who else, I'm not sure. Trainer? It's pretty much a grass roots operation right now, which is part of my reason for doing it.

I find it interesting, not to single you out but to use your situation as an example, of the line of bull that outfits pout out there.
Call up a lawyer and tell him your a new company, a startup, a grass roots type deal and need free legal services. I don't think you'll get any.
Try that for an accountant...or to get your studio landscaped...

Perhaps B&H will help the team by giving them the long lens you'll need! I don't think so, do you?

It's just I keep seeing photographers giving away their time, their work, to organizations that will pay others for their services. Why is that? What is in the makeup of a photographer's personality that makes us crave attention and recognition?

That is just it Prof, these organizations never have, and never will pay for these services. You have to decide if its something you want to do, and use the op to make money while still shooting for free.

jmsetzler does this sort of work for a Low A ball team and actually makes money doing it while shooting for free. There are other perks and contacts that can't be made otherwise. While I agree not getting paid sucks, BIG TIME, this is the sort of Gig that the exposure and opportunity given can actually open doors and money potential that if worked right can actually make you more money then if you were to get paid and turn over the photos with no chance to do anything with them after wards. If this sort of chance were given to me locally I'd take it and work my ass off to make the $$$ that is there to be made. However with a new team and not knowing how gung-ho the community is around it as to whether the market is there to make it or not.

Matt

ErikV

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

06/14/2009 02:10:34 PM · #14

Prof_Fate, here is your answer...

Originally posted by jpochard:

I do get to meet Sean Casey...that makes it worthwhile right there :)

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

06/14/2009 02:45:39 PM · #15

awesome, judy! have a ball with it, pun intended!

don't worry about your equipment, unless you want to worry about it. do get prices for renting various pieces so that if mgmt needs something that requires a rental, you can let them know what's involved. you'll be able to do enough with what you have, though, that they should be more than happy enough.

the main thing they are going to be looking for is stand alone action shots that they can use in media guides. if you need examples, just go to any college, minor league, or mlb site and you'll see what they're looking for. basically, nice, clean shots of everybody on the roster.

don't over think it or make it too complicated for yourself and you can have a lot of fun. along those lines, work out something in advance as to what you'll be delivering and when. you don't want to create unnecessary work for yourself by trying to over-deliver when there's no need to (for example, if they just need some shots to update the website, you don't need to spend hours preparing 100's of images for print). just keep it simple.

ONE BIG NOTE: as far as 'marketing' goes, if the players have any (and i mean ANY) collegiate eligibility left, you CANNOT market their images.

good luck, have fun!

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

06/14/2009 07:32:28 PM · #16

Game got rained out :( However the fundraiser was a blast. I haven't even looked at the photos yet. It was a great opportunity to meet the players, and get to know them a little bit. Also gave me a chance to introduce myself to all the "worker bees"...they have several local college interns working marketing etc. I sat with them for awhile and now they know if something fun or important is going to happen, to let me know when possible. Also got to meet the owner of the team, who is a really nice guy.

I think it's important for them to have someone who can not only take photos, but who really wants to see this team succeed in our area and who enjoys the game.

Anyway...it was very tiring - just like a wedding reception basically, but a lot of fun. Sean Casey is a funny, funny dude and we had a great time.

Hey Skip...thanks for the encouragement :) I will ask the GM about the colligiate issues with selling images of the players. Thanks for the heads up!

Prof_Fate

06/14/2009 08:04:28 PM · #17

Did you find out any what happened with the previous photog? Was he wanting too much of something or is there some restriction you don't know about? Curiosity...

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

06/14/2009 08:06:26 PM · #18

glad you had a good time. as you saw/expected, the bennies go way beyond cash...

Originally posted by jpochard:

I will ask the GM about the colligiate issues with selling images of the players. Thanks for the heads up!

it's a good idea to talk to the gm, but he may or may not know everything he needs to know. if the players are juniors, sophomores, or freshmen expecting to play for their schools next year, you might want to get in touch with their school's NCAA compliance officer to hear it straight from them. their are a LOT of regulations about this stuff. you can start here or download a really large pdf of the entire NCAA Division I Manual. as with anything, it's not the taking of the photo that causes problems; it's what's done with it. with athletes, the last thing you want to do is to jeopardize one's eligibility.

06/14/2009 08:57:56 PM · #19

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Did you find out any what happened with the previous photog? Was he wanting too much of something or is there some restriction you don't know about? Curiosity...

Yes..

The agreement stated that the team management had to approve any item prior to being available for sale. He did not adhere to this policy and at the first exhibition game last week was selling something that was not approved....a team memeber missing or misspelled or something.

When asked about it a few minutes into the game, the photographer dropped several "f-bombs" in front of the kids and everyone standing around. At which time he was escorted out of the game and supposedly peeled out of the parking lot.

This is the reason given to me by the person who "hired" me, so I will upfront say that I obviously don't have the photog's side of the story.

I WILL say that I have my entire agreement signed in writing - and that was something the other photog apparently did not take the time to do.