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04/25/2009 06:33:01 AM · #1 |
I'm so completely overwhelmed by the amount of crap they are selling out there when it comes to strobe kits.
Bowens, Profoto, Elite, White lightning, photodiox, smith victor, square deal. Which ones are worth looking at? Does anybody have any experience with any of them
Message edited by author 2009-04-25 06:34:24. |
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04/25/2009 07:45:10 AM · #2 |
bowens, profoto, photogenic are three top brands
white lightning is the 'pro' version of alien bees.
cheaper lights are less consistent at their lowest setting but otherwise there is little different IME
I've been using paterson interfit stellar lights for the past 4 or 5 years, have 7 of them 2 i bought used. they get used a good bit and travel a lot - 4 of them will spend today at a baseball field for 5 hours taking pictures. One of the used ones blew a capacitor last fall but it had been acting funky for a week - and I have no idea how it was used before I got it.
I've talked to others that use these lights and they find them durable and reliable. I've not dropped mine, but one guy did (a couple of times) and they kept working. He also has ABs and when he dropped one of them the case shattered.
Best part is they're cheap - less than 1/2 the cost of the big names so you can spend the savings on pocket wizards and a better meter. My seven strobes (with stands, cases, umbrellas and softboxes cost me a total of $1600.
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04/25/2009 09:57:10 AM · #3 |
âElite 1600â
2-600 w/s Fotodiox Monolight Studio Strobes
1-400 w/s Fotodiox Monolight Studio Strobe
2-8â4â Light Stands
2-24x32 Softbox
1- Boom Stand
1- Barndoor
Including Free 4 Channel Radio Slave Trigger Kit
Model Number
L-600, L400
Max Power (w/s)
600 w/s, 400 w/s
Guide Number
620 ft, 410 ft
Recycle Time
2.5 Sec.
Max Flash Duration
1/700 Sec.
Output Adjustable
Full - 1/32 Stepless adjustment
Modeling Light
150w halogen light bulb
Color Temperature
5500k
Built-in Slave
Yes
Built-in Buzz Charge Reminder
Yes, can be switch off as needed
Cooling Fan
Yes
Umbrella Socket
Standard
PC-Sync Socket
Yes
Triggering Voltage
5V (safe for all digital/film cameras)
Accessory Line
Fotodiox L-series dedicated accessories, compatible to Bowens
Dimension
5.5" x 5.5" x15", 5.5" x 5.5" x13"
Weight
7.6 lbs, 6.9 lbs
Includes
L-600/L4000 Monolight unit, 7" dedicated reflector, flash tube, 150w halogen modeling bulb, 15' PC sync cord, 8' power cord.
Manufacturer
Fotodiox Inc.
Warranty
12 Months
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04/25/2009 09:59:21 AM · #4 |
wow, I didn't realize that'd be such a long winded message.
Hey Profate, you've been an awesome help throughout this whole thing. Much respect. I can definately tell you know yer stuff, and its good to have such people around, especially when spending a bolt load of money. LOL. TY. |
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04/25/2009 01:09:07 PM · #5 |
| Lots of speculation that something might be happening on the Einsteins over at alienbee... so maybe see what next week brings. The cyber commander is supposed to be out as well.... |
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04/25/2009 05:57:52 PM · #6 |
I shot a baseball team today - well, league. I had 2 shooters doing individual and I did team, and then anotehr shot posed action stuff for posters.
I didn't realize how much gear it takes - or that I had enough of it.
The only thing I borrowed was a tripod cause I have only 1.
I used 3 monolights (and stands), 6 pocket wizards, 3 40Ds and a 5D (groups), vagabond to power the one light for groups as we were too far from power, and of course lenses and ND filters..17-55/24-70 for the individuals, 16-35 for groups, 70-200 F4 for the action stuff along with a 550 and battery pack.
Everything worked perfectly - outside in 85 degree + heat for 6 hours in the wind - meaning DUST!
I got a LOT of cleaning to do - everything is covered in dust, inside all the bags, etc. Yuk.
I'll let you know how the lights (and their fans) work after this day! I totally understand why folks buy 1D sealed bodies and L lenses. My 17-55 isn't sealed and shooting a baseball team last year I got sand/grit in the lens barrel (focus/zoom) and it felt terrible but eventually worked itself out.
Point being, gear has to work 100% of the time, and you still need backups. But you'll work it hard so you need gear that can take it- down time costs money.
Are there 'better' lights out there? Probably. But define better. If all three of my lights are trashed (which I doubt) I'm out $750 or so. ONE bowen/photogenic/norman light is more than that. If I chose to buy 'the best' I'd not have had the money to buy the gear for today. Hell, I've got some $1100 in just pocket wizards! (bought over time - a little here a little there).
Find something good and stick with one brand, or at least one 'system' - bowens and interfit take the same accessory mounts for example. Saves on hassle and costs. |
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04/25/2009 06:34:33 PM · #7 |
| I don't have experience with a variety of lighting equip, but the AlienBees Cybersync triggers work very well, at about half the price of the pocket wizard. I use them regularly at a studio nearby, and never a problem (good range, too). The studio has just about all of the AlienBees lighting & accessories, and it all works very well. The AB strobes accept normal bulbs for the modeling lamps. |
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04/25/2009 08:26:30 PM · #8 |
I'm having trouble understanding if anybody is saying anything good, and/or bad about these Photodiox guys! (above)
It says everything is compatible with Bowens, but the set-up is pretty expensive, and I'm a tee bit scared to click the confirm button.
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04/25/2009 11:20:57 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by sacredspirit:
I'm having trouble understanding if anybody is saying anything good, and/or bad about these Photodiox guys! (above)
It says everything is compatible with Bowens, but the set-up is pretty expensive, and I'm a tee bit scared to click the confirm button. |
Buddy, you are not saying why you need them for? Business? can you justify the money? whatâs your budget? what are you looking for?
I'd recommend the Aleinbees for beginners and intermediate users, if you are top of the line user, for sure you'll know what to get.
All the best,
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04/26/2009 07:56:59 AM · #10 |
| g-question. Beginner, and I will be using the equipment to learn studio. About 1500 is what I have saved so far. |
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04/26/2009 12:09:55 PM · #11 |
you'll want / need 3 lights, remote triggers, meter, umbrella maybe (location work) and softbozes and maybe grids or snoots. If not immediately then soon after.
PW's are THE standard remote trigger and run $189 each, you need at least 2 - one for a light and one for the camera. If you use big softboxes then the on-light optical trigger may not see a flash signal so you'll want more PWs.
Sekonic makes flash meters with PW trigger modules - so you can read the lights without plugging in to them or in some other way tripping them. VERY VERY VERY convenient. I would never work any other way.
modifiers (umbrellas, sofboxes, grids, beauty rings, etc) are important and you'll want them. AB makes folding sofboxes and they're sweet if you have to store or move your gear. You'll eventually want 4x6 foot or at leat 3x4 foot softboxes and probably a 2x2 or similar. Pretty much all softboxes are the same when it comes to mounting - you need a 'speedring' that attaches to your lights to hook any softbox up.
Cost and availability of these accessories can add up over time.
So add up what you're looking at and the interfit and AB alternatives and see what gets you the most for your buck.
You could get a 2 300ws kit from interfit for $550 ish with one 2x2 softbox and 1 umbrella. Geta speed ring and 3x4 softbox ($250ish) and then get a 60" photogenic umbrella ($30ish), 2 PWs ($375), and a sekonic L358 or whatever the current model is with the PW module ($300?). There's your $1500. If you have money left get some beefier stands and a background light stand (very short).
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04/27/2009 10:13:08 PM · #12 |
Hey Pro thats alot to take in, and I'm on it, but I have a couple questions.
1. Is the PW the only way. I'm reading this technology is changing everyday, and that infared has better range, and response. I've seen them for way cheaper than 175. I thought and I could be wrong that I seen one trigger, and four slave sensors for like 75.
2. The kit I have picked is the smaller, and is 2 600w/s, and 1 300w/s. Photodiox has one bigger @ 2 1200w/s, and 1 600w/s. The info is above for recycle, and onboard cooling fans and stuff. Do you think its adequate for a small say 10x20 backdrop set-up?
3. Can I use a boom instead of that small tripod for a backdrop light?
4. Do you know where to purchase plain canvas ready for paint?
5. Owe and one other thing, and this may cause a chuckle, I'm still using my Canon 300 with a kit lens, I have a 50mm too, but the 300mm I'm sure will be worthless. Adequate, or not even close?
Message edited by author 2009-04-27 22:18:24. |
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04/27/2009 10:24:58 PM · #13 |
PW is radio. Radio has more range than IR. IR is infrared light, like a TV remote. It needs line of site so it won't work in other rooms, around corners, etc and bright lights can disable it, windows and mirrors can confuse it, etc.
There are other options besides PW. Quantum makes a system that works very well.
300ws light is enough for most anything you want to do. the more watts the longer the recycle time, the more it costs, the more it weighs, etc. I have 6 300ws lights (and 1 600) and unless you're trying to create the main light at high noon on a sunny day (blow out the sun in other words) then 300 is enough IME/IMO. You can always turn it down and once you reach max power you can't turn it up - is true of course, but I rarely run the 300s at full power and more often need less than their minumum power. And I can get F10 in the studio all day long on full body shots.
depends...if you shoot a typical sitting subject or group the idea is to put the light 'on the ground' behind them (so it is hidden from the cameras' view) and it illuminates the BG, often in a circular pattern. Putting a light on a boom sucks IME, but it's done often - usually as a hair light on the subject or other rim type light where you need to have the light above the subject. I guess you could do that for a BG light. A backlight stand is like $25, a boom and stand and sandbags will run $200 or more. Your choice.
walmart and other fabric stores sell muslin in wide widths in the quilting department, bleached and unbleached and in a couple of widths.
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04/27/2009 10:34:11 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
PW is radio. Radio has more range than IR. IR is infrared light, like a TV remote. It needs line of site so it won't work in other rooms, around corners, etc and bright lights can disable it, windows and mirrors can confuse it, etc. |
To be fair... eTTL (canon) pre-flash is white light communication not IR apart from that STE2 thing. It can work outside of line of sight as long as the slave can see the light from the master - It's better the folk law would have you believe BUT it's not radio and outside if more of an issue. |
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04/27/2009 11:31:36 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by robs:
It can work outside of line of sight as long as the slave can see the light from the master |
Umm, being able to see the light means line-of-site.
It can't shoot thru walls, from outside of buildings to the inside, etc, like radio, and canon's wireless is notoroiously unreliable in bright light. I can do eTTL - but once you understand flash and work with it a bit you don't need eTTL for off-camera flash. Beside, eTTL can be fooled way too easy, just like the meter in your camera.
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04/28/2009 12:02:39 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Umm, being able to see the light means line-of-site. |
Ok... Then we have different meanings :).... I can have one on the other side of a wall if there is a hallway between the rooms that reflects enough light so the slave "sees" the pre flash encoding. Line of sight to me is direct only and they don't need that as long as bouncing light can be seen.
Either way... Radio is better :-) |
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04/28/2009 09:28:05 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by robs:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Umm, being able to see the light means line-of-site. |
Ok... Then we have different meanings :).... I can have one on the other side of a wall if there is a hallway between the rooms that reflects enough light so the slave "sees" the pre flash encoding. Line of sight to me is direct only and they don't need that as long as bouncing light can be seen.
Either way... Radio is better :-) |
I'm awake now and re-read you post. We are sorta talking about two things..
eTTL CONTROL is via infra-red, so if you have the ST-E2 or a second canon flash (ala strobist) and want to use the eTTL functions then you need line of sight like a TV remote.
If you are using eTTL in ANY form, there is a preflash that goes off to allow the camera/flash to measure the subject brightness. This is only in eTTL and has nothing to do with the flash's communicating or being triggered.
Now you can set some canon flashes to fire when the see any flash fire (and monolights can do this too, or you can add this feature with something like a wein peanut). There are many problems with this method though.
If you are in a small white room you should be fine.
If you are in a large room, have a light behind the subject or use large softboxes then the slaved light may not reliable see the primary trigger flash - so it won't go off.
You need a flash to trigger the setup - and assuming you dont want on-camera flash for everything you still need away for the camera to sell a flash to fire.
If you are on location (wedding say) and you lights are set to fire when they see a flash you're screwed - uncle bob, grandma, etc are all using camera with flash and will be firing your strobes -so chances are they've not recycled by the time you need them to fire and you get crap pictures. Plus they're wearing out your gear -a cost and hassle you don't want or need.
If you are outside optical triggers are about useless. When I was at the baseball field in bright full sun with the monolight BEHIND me and 8 feet in the air - the only way to trip it is with radio or a wire plugged in.
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04/28/2009 10:00:35 AM · #18 |
PW are expensive,
Alienbees offer a wireless transmitter called Sybersync, its does the same job as PW '' shorter range '' but it its 1/3 the price, I have those for over a year and never had a single misfire.
Also there is a starter kit at AB, you can get AB800 '' lots of light, and use couple of flashes with it.
I think what you need to know before buying .. is to learn how to light,
I am saying this because I was in your place a year ago.
Check this site
This is the best lighting site ever, in this section lighting 101 you will learn all about gear and lighting, You might need to read it first then decide on what you want to buy.
You are worrying about not having enough light, you will change this after reading it, you might start worrying about having too much light.
Recommendation as a starter, AB800, 2 Flashes .. I use Vivitar 285, 1 Cybersync transmitter and 2 receiver, and you are still left with half your money.
All the best.
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04/28/2009 01:56:20 PM · #19 |
I agree completely.
I've only really used AlienBees and their cybersync tranmitters, receivers, but I really like them. The transmitters/receivers are reliable and work well from far away, and I have yet to have a misfire. At half the price of PWs, I plan to buy the cybersyncs for myself.
Light meters are useful for complex lighting set ups, but most of the pro's I know (I am not a pro) don't use them as much now with digital. With film, they were essential. I wouldn't consider it as an initial must-have, but as something you might need or want later on.
I also agree on the learning part. You might save a bundle of your money if you first spent some of it taking a lighting workshop. I did, and it spared me a great deal of wasted purchasing. The tendency we all have is to start with the cheap stuff to learn with, or to cut some corners on things, or to buy something that looks like it will be great. Getting to a workshop where you get to use gear and shoot with it, and see results is invaluable. I learned NOT to buy an AB1600 because it is more than most situations require. I learned which modifiers do what, and got to see results. As a result, there are several that I now know I don't really need, at least to start.
And, perhaps most important, I learned how to use my nikon SB800 flash on a light stand with a shootthru/reflector umbrella and two or three reflectors for some amazing results "on the road". So that will do me while I save up for the ABs, softbox, etc.
So the ~400 bucks I spent on a lighting workshop saved me probably twice that in unnecessary or bad-choice purchases.
And I took just ONE of the things I learned there (single strobe, umbrella, reflector) and took the best pictures ever of my Mom and Dad when I went to visit them. I taught my brother that same technique, bought him a light stand and umbrella, and he is shooting his family portraits now.
I recommend this one: Learn To Light
And, one thing I learned not to skimp on: the light stands--I recommend getting the air-cushioned variety. If you accidently release the shaft lock without a good grip, it will not SLAM down and put a real sharp shock into your strobe. I know a couple of guys who said "nah, don't need that, just be careful is all". One has done The Drop since. In my opinion, it is like pilots and gear-up landings: there are those who have, and those who will :-)
Sandbags for light stands are also a very good idea :-)
Originally posted by AmeedEl-Ghoul:
PW are expensive,
Alienbees offer a wireless transmitter called Sybersync, its does the same job as PW '' shorter range '' but it its 1/3 the price, I have those for over a year and never had a single misfire.
Also there is a starter kit at AB, you can get AB800 '' lots of light, and use couple of flashes with it.
I think what you need to know before buying .. is to learn how to light,
I am saying this because I was in your place a year ago.
Check this site
This is the best lighting site ever, in this section lighting 101 you will learn all about gear and lighting, You might need to read it first then decide on what you want to buy.
You are worrying about not having enough light, you will change this after reading it, you might start worrying about having too much light.
Recommendation as a starter, AB800, 2 Flashes .. I use Vivitar 285, 1 Cybersync transmitter and 2 receiver, and you are still left with half your money.
All the best. |
Message edited by author 2009-04-28 13:58:39. |
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04/28/2009 08:10:00 PM · #20 |
Wow, ya'll kick butt! Chris you know I'm indebted to you, I've let ya know already. To you other fellas, TY.
Alright. Options. AB triggering>PW triggering (both radio), IR triggering (needs line of sight, but grandmas can't trigger it, and its cheaper), or Visible flash, and fire (not at all practical)
So...Radio transmitter (best)
.....IR (better)
Flash to fire (crap) |
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04/28/2009 10:33:30 PM · #21 |
I prefer Norman or Speedotron strobes, but I also don't like monolights, soooo anyway...
I'll agree that the radio syncs are the best option, but the optical syncs are generally very good too. I've used a Wein peanut slave to trigger a strobe located over 200 feet from the main light inside the barrel room at a winery.
The least expensive and the most reliable option is to use sync cables from the camera to the strobes. |
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04/28/2009 10:37:21 PM · #22 |
I'll add that a good meter is an important item too.
Message edited by author 2009-04-28 22:38:08. |
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04/28/2009 11:57:39 PM · #23 |
Alright how do sync cables work?
Is it possible to use all cables, and completely forget about remote triggering?
...I'll be set-up in an 10x20 room anyway. |
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04/29/2009 12:03:12 AM · #24 |
Chromy, or BD, no offense, but I'm not going to pay to attend a seminar for lighting. I have books, and I have DP.
The rest is hardknocks learning, probably not the best way I'll admit that. The most gratifiying to my skewed sense of life though. |
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04/29/2009 12:10:43 AM · #25 |
Another question, for Chris this time, or well anyone who knows.
Above Profate says he has 4 PW's, why would you need 4? I was under the impression 1 would fire all the strobes at once. If it doesn't plz fill me in. |
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