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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Would this be a DQ today?
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Showing posts 26 - 35 of 35, (reverse)
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 04/24/2009 01:26:47 PM · #26
You might get farther if you thing of DPC rules as not being black and white but rather shades of gray. So you don't ask, "is this legal?" you rather ask "what's my risk of getting DQ'd?" For your cat shot, the risk is high. For the hermit crab shot, this risk is low to medium. The cat shot was trying to both fool people and the picture was the main subject. That combination puts the risk at "high". The hermit crab shot or Shannon's would also be trying to fool people, but the picture is not the main subject. That puts the risk lower.

That's the way I look at the rules now. You roll the dice, you take your chances.
 04/24/2009 01:27:42 PM · #27
Originally posted by kenskid:
On the other hand...the hermit crab in front of a picture of the Coral Reef seems more likely to DQ b/c of the trying to fool the voter.


You can make a reasonable argument for that, yeah. This was where I had problems, emotionally, with the DQ'd thanksgiving dinner blue ribbon in the "feast" challenge: it seemed to me then, and sort of seems to me now, that what we're telling people is "If you do the job amateurishly, it's legal 'cuz nobody's fooled, but if you do it well enough to fool us we will DQ you..."

I am apparently one of the very few who finds that to be an uncomfortable stance to be taking, LOL.

R.
 04/24/2009 01:44:55 PM · #28
I know what you mean. I remember that Feast shot...I think I commented that the photographer was ripped off by the DQ! LOL...

So what you're saying is that if the Feast shot was done badly...(glare on the family photo etc) this may have not gotten a DQ? But...since it was perfect...and fooled everyone...it was a DQ?

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by kenskid:
On the other hand...the hermit crab in front of a picture of the Coral Reef seems more likely to DQ b/c of the trying to fool the voter.


You can make a reasonable argument for that, yeah. This was where I had problems, emotionally, with the DQ'd thanksgiving dinner blue ribbon in the "feast" challenge: it seemed to me then, and sort of seems to me now, that what we're telling people is "If you do the job amateurishly, it's legal 'cuz nobody's fooled, but if you do it well enough to fool us we will DQ you..."

I am apparently one of the very few who finds that to be an uncomfortable stance to be taking, LOL.

R.
04/24/2009 01:46:00 PM · #29
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
sort of seems to me now, that what we're telling people is "If you do the job amateurishly, it's legal 'cuz nobody's fooled, but if you do it well enough to fool us we will DQ you..."

That's been brought up in the SC discussions, but it's not really true. You can do a fabulously professional job as long as the artwork plays a supporting role. If your "subject" is a realistic photo of a photo, then that's where problems arise.

This shouldn't be hard to comprehend. If the primary impact of your entry is largely a photo of a photo, then the voters are unfairly judging existing artwork on the assumption that it's a live scene. If it's an OBVIOUS photo or illustration, then they know what they're judging and it's not a problem. If the artwork is realistic, but plays a minor or supporting role, then the voters are mostly judging the real parts and overall composition (also not a problem). If you can't tell whether the artwork is a main subject or supporting element, then you're probably skating close enough to the edge to be on thin ice.
 04/24/2009 01:51:29 PM · #30
I know this sound funny but taking your post into consideration would you say that the "hermit crab in space" would be judged legit? I say this on the grounds that the crabs are obviously not in space.

Thanks

EDIT: I know I risk being called out again for nitpicking the rules but: Let's say I enter a picture of by "blowfish" in his aquarium. The back of the aquarium is covered with a "photo" of a coral reef. All you can see is the blowfish, water and the "real looking" reef. The title of the challenge is "blow". What would happen? ....Isn't this interesting?

Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
sort of seems to me now, that what we're telling people is "If you do the job amateurishly, it's legal 'cuz nobody's fooled, but if you do it well enough to fool us we will DQ you..."

That's been brought up in the SC discussions, but it's not really true. You can do a fabulously professional job as long as the artwork plays a supporting role. If your "subject" is a realistic photo of a photo, then that's where problems arise.

This shouldn't be hard to comprehend. If the primary impact of your entry is largely a photo of a photo, then the voters are unfairly judging existing artwork on the assumption that it's a live scene. If it's an OBVIOUS photo or illustration, then they know what they're judging and it's not a problem. If the artwork is realistic, but plays a minor or supporting role, then the voters are mostly judging the real parts and overall composition (also not a problem). If you can't tell whether the artwork is a main subject or supporting element, then you're probably skating close enough to the edge to be on thin ice.


Message edited by author 2009-04-24 13:56:01.
 04/24/2009 01:55:40 PM · #31
The problem I have with the fooling aspect (which I first brought up in that feast thread) is this:

It seems to me that the more likely it is that a shot violated this rule (the "subject" is a realistic photo of a photo and fooled the voter), the less likely it is that a validation request will occur (because the voter is fooled and thinks it's real). Practically, this ends up making it unlikely that you'll be caught and DQed unless you make the top 5. I don't think that's a good thing.
 04/24/2009 01:58:34 PM · #32
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
sort of seems to me now, that what we're telling people is "If you do the job amateurishly, it's legal 'cuz nobody's fooled, but if you do it well enough to fool us we will DQ you..."

That's been brought up in the SC discussions, but it's not really true. You can do a fabulously professional job as long as the artwork plays a supporting role. If your "subject" is a realistic photo of a photo, then that's where problems arise.

This shouldn't be hard to comprehend. If the primary impact of your entry is largely a photo of a photo, then the voters are unfairly judging existing artwork on the assumption that it's a live scene. If it's an OBVIOUS photo or illustration, then they know what they're judging and it's not a problem. If the artwork is realistic, but plays a minor or supporting role, then the voters are mostly judging the real parts and overall composition (also not a problem). If you can't tell whether the artwork is a main subject or supporting element, then you're probably skating close enough to the edge to be on thin ice.


I understand this line of reasoning, and I understand why SC is holding the line there, but at the same time I think it's a bit ingenuous. I'm NOT complaining about it, nor am I lobbying to change it, but nevertheless I think it's an incredibly fluid line to attempt to be drawing when what's at issue is the legality of a submission...

R.
 04/24/2009 02:02:13 PM · #33
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I understand this line of reasoning, and I understand why SC is holding the line there, but at the same time I think it's a bit ingenuous. I'm NOT complaining about it, nor am I lobbying to change it, but nevertheless I think it's an incredibly fluid line to attempt to be drawing when what's at issue is the legality of a submission...

R.


Hence my view of the rules as a method of "risk assessment"... ;)
 04/24/2009 03:03:10 PM · #34
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You might get farther if you thing of DPC rules as not being black and white but rather shades of gray. So you don't ask, "is this legal?" you rather ask "what's my risk of getting DQ'd?" ... That's the way I look at the rules now. You roll the dice, you take your chances.

And as I recently found out, sometimes it just doesn't work out even when you think the risk is nil ...
 04/25/2009 12:48:31 AM · #35
Thanks all...learned enough to say away from pictures of pictures unless I'm willing to "live on the edge"...LOL...

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