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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Pics of UK troops abusing prisoners may be fake!
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 05/03/2004 09:23:53 AM · #1
No, I don't believe it... A "journalist" lying to further his or her adgenda... I don't believe it... HA.HA.HA.

Doubts over UK 'abuse' pictures
 05/03/2004 09:32:57 AM · #2
While the abuse by US troops and maybe others is completely wrong, is in reality, not that bad, and preferable treatment compared to the torture that our guys have to put up with. Also, an EXTREMLY EXTREMLY SMALL number of people were introduced to this treatment by the soldiers, while EVERY SINGLE ONE of the coalition troops are almost guaranteed torturous treatment by Iraqis.

I don't see the world media complaining about the torture that American troops and civilians have to go through!

What really angers me is that the media NEVER EVER gave two shits about the Iraqiâs being made to do embarrassing things, but instead were only interested in undermining US Interests, the war and especially G. Bush and/or our other allies (i.e. Britain).

Message edited by author 2004-05-03 09:35:14.
 05/03/2004 10:41:48 AM · #3
Originally posted by Russell2566:
While the abuse by US troops and maybe others is completely wrong, is in reality, not that bad, and preferable treatment compared to the torture that our guys have to put up with. Also, an EXTREMLY EXTREMLY SMALL number of people were introduced to this treatment by the soldiers, while EVERY SINGLE ONE of the coalition troops are almost guaranteed torturous treatment by Iraqis.


So because they do it then it's ok for the US to do it?
 05/03/2004 10:47:38 AM · #4
Originally posted by Russell2566:
No, I don't believe it... A "journalist" lying to further his or her adgenda... I don't believe it... HA.HA.HA.

Doubts over UK 'abuse' pictures


I don't think so .. Scotsman

You should be ashamed for cheering on that kind of behavior!
 05/03/2004 10:58:52 AM · #5
Originally posted by moodville:
So because they do it then it's ok for the US to do it?


If you actualy read my post, you'll find I condemn what was done... I was just putting it into some real light.

A 20 year old sleeping with a 17 year old is illegal, but what the media is efdectivly trying to do is say that the just mentioned act is just as bad as a 30 year old raping a 12 year old... I understand this concept might be hard to understand, but there are different levels of crime.

Essentialy, the media has given the 30 year old a pass, because for whatever reason they can justify his actions and it's OK... But we should hang the 20 year old kid...

Not a great analigy, but hopfully you can get it...

Originally posted by pitsaman:

You should be ashamed for cheering on that kind of behavior!

I guess I'm confused by your post... Who's cheering who on?

EDIT:
In case it wasn't conveyed here or in the other post on the topic, all the soldiers involved should be court-martialed for conduct un becoming and serve at least some jail time.

Message edited by author 2004-05-03 11:00:49.
 05/03/2004 11:05:33 AM · #6
In the counseling field, that type of response is referred-to as a "yes, but ..." answer, and is generally recognized as a way to deny responsibility for one's actions.

That "we" "only" torture and humiliate people occasionally instead of routinely is the lamest of excuses, and reminds me of a four year-old crying "yeah, but Tommy was badder'n I was!"

"We" profess to be the democratic and moral authority for the world ... I think leading by example is more appropriate than spinning rhetoric.
 05/03/2004 11:50:53 AM · #7
Wow, either
A) You guys are so biased your spinning shit in your own mind.
B) You can't read.
C) I can't convey a thought.
D) All of the above.

I never excused actions of our troops. I was simply trying scold or task "reporters" (it's hard not to laugh when they call them selves that". They call them selves truth seekers, I call them DNC sympathizers.

This story would never be as big of a news story as it is, much less the attempt to make it seem like all our soldiers treat prisoners like this if a democrat was in office. I know this might be hard for those who think CNN is a conservative ânewsâ channel to swallow, but Iâm more right than wrongâ¦

Message edited by author 2004-05-03 11:51:38.
 05/03/2004 12:09:26 PM · #8
Originally posted by Russell2566:
While the abuse by US troops and maybe others is completely wrong, is in reality, not that bad ...

Emphasis added. "Yes, but ..."
 05/03/2004 01:33:52 PM · #9
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Russell2566:
While the abuse by US troops and maybe others is completely wrong, is in reality, not that bad ...

Emphasis added. "Yes, but ..."


Are you dense? Do you try to miss the point as hard as possible or are you really that "slow".

Message edited by author 2004-05-03 13:35:19.
 05/03/2004 01:45:21 PM · #10
I'll be happy to sit down with you anywhere, anytime, and re-take the SATs and compare results (as if they really measure intelligence or, as you put it, "brain density"). You are free to disagree with my opinions, but please don't insult my inteligence, impugn my integrity, or call me (or anyone) names ... or continue to change the subject.
 05/03/2004 01:49:08 PM · #11
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I'll be happy to sit down with you anywhere, anytime, and re-take the SATs and compare results (as if they really measure intelligence or, as you put it, "brain density"). You are free to disagree with my opinions, but please don't insult my inteligence, impugn my integrity, or call me (or anyone) names ... or continue to change the subject.


Let me try this again: Are you dense? Do you try to miss the point as hard as possible or are you really that "slow".

BTW: How old are you if you think the SATs are a good way to compare oupr knowledge, how bout you come over to my house some time. My fiance and I will make dinner and we can sit down and talk about the finer points in life... Maybe then we can measure how smart or dumb we are...

But untill then... Please do me a favor and read my posts before making replies implying something I'm not...
 05/04/2004 11:30:17 AM · #12
Stopping the Abuse of Detainees

By Leonard S. Rubenstein
Tuesday, May 4, 2004; Page A25

Photographs of American soldiers laughing over naked Iraqi prisoners of war piled atop one another are a revolting disgrace, all the more so because evidence of torture and ill treatment of individuals detained by U.S. forces in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, is not new. The humiliating acts seen in photos may not have been predictable, but the abuse of detainees was, a product of the circumstances of detention and the administration's resistance to independent monitoring and accountability. Stopping it requires a great deal more than the prosecution of a handful of offenders.

The problem is that the main purpose of these military detentions is interrogation, a practice that always has potential for abuse. Preventing abuse requires compliance with rules for treatment of prisoners, as well as access for independent monitors and accountability for violators. But many detainees in Afghanistan and Iraq have been held virtually incommunicado, sometimes in undisclosed locations, under rules that have never been made public. As early as 2002, news reports of abuse of prisoners began to surface, and new allegations have continued to emerge.

The administration's response has been to stonewall. A year ago, in response to the first set of allegations of abuse of detainees, President Bush affirmed that the United States does not practice or condone torture or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, and that it investigates allegations of violations. But the actions needed to convert this from a statement to a commitment have been absent. For the past two years, human rights organizations have requested the guidelines used to govern interrogation, the results of investigations of alleged instances of torture or mistreatment, information on individuals transferred to third countries for interrogation, and -- most important -- access to the detainees and their medical records to ascertain whether they have been abused. The administration either denied or failed even to acknowledge many of these requests, including those concerning findings of the investigation of the case of two detainees who died in custody more than a year ago. As for combatants sent to third countries, among them countries with a record of torture, the administration claimed to have obtained assurances that the countries do not torture detained combatants.

An even deeper problem with the administration's approach has been its efforts to evade compliance with the Geneva Conventions, which protect detainees from torture, ill treatment and humiliation, as well as inhuman conditions of confinement. It has said that captured al Qaeda suspects in captivity at Guantanamo and Afghanistan are not subject to the conventions at all. And U.S. officials took a shockingly casual approach to the treatment of POWs by U.S. surrogates in Afghanistan, assuming no responsibility for the horrific conditions of imprisonment for thousands of Taliban fighters and washing U.S. hands of reports that allies killed possibly hundreds or thousands of detainees. Some of the holding centers are even off-limits to the International Committee of the Red Cross, which is internationally authorized to visit all security detainees.

The president, the director of the CIA and the secretary of defense must now do what should have been done 18 months ago. The message has to be clear that interrogators must be subject to rules, and if the rules are to be obeyed, the door to the interrogation room must never be shut. They should publicly pledge that the United States is bound by the Geneva Conventions and will be bound by them with respect to every single military detainee, whether or not it considers them official prisoners of war. They should immediately account for the whereabouts and condition of all in detention and offer the International Committee of the Red Cross, as well as independent human rights monitors and medical experts, full access to all prisoners and all medical records that can reveal abuse. The president should provide to the American public a full accounting of interrogation practices, including all records and documents relating to the most recent violations and past allegations of abuse in Afghanistan, Iraq, Guantanamo, the United States and other countries where individuals have been sent.

When some Americans insulted and humiliated their Iraqi captives, they shamed every American as well. Moreover, they jeopardized the lives and well-being of U.S. soldiers and people in custody throughout the world. President Bush recoiled at the horror of it, but unless revulsion leads to more concerted action, the abuses will continue.

The writer is executive director of Physicians for Human Rights.

© 2004 The Washington Post Company

Message edited by author 2004-05-04 11:33:35.
 05/04/2004 12:34:48 PM · #13
I would have to aggree with the writeup you posted, but I'd like to point out one thing.

Originally posted by pitsaman:
Moreover, they jeopardized the lives and well-being of U.S. soldiers and people in custody throughout the world.


The lives of soldiers in custody are already in serious danger. Most of our enemies don't even come close to having European or North American type morals, much less a desire to comply with geneva conventions. I still hold that I wish there was this much outrage over our troops treatments... But then again I'm sure our female soldiers look foward to being raped and our men enjoy the torture! Besides, they are only Americans....

Reading help for GeneralE: You'll notice I didn't excuse what happened in Iraq with the statment I just made, but instead pointed out a FACT...

Message edited by author 2004-05-04 12:38:14.
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