school photography - DPChallenge Forums

03/09/2009 06:26:34 AM · #1

Hi - has anyone here done the photography for a primary school, and if so, would you like to share any tips? I'm particularly interested in file and package handling, but any tips based on your experiences would be great!

Message edited by author 2009-03-09 06:27:07.

03/09/2009 08:57:09 AM · #2

Unless it is a very small school you'll need to buy school photo software. There are several brands out there but figure $2500 to start, plus often you shoot tethered...so start adding up at least 2 shoot stations (tripod, cameera, lights, BG, laptop- one to use and one for backup!). $5000 easy.

If you've got the gear then you don't need to buy much. You will need help on picture day - now the PTA or other parent volunteers may help, but bring along someone that knows you and how you work. Relying on strangers to do what you tell them isn't a good plan.

The School's priority is the least disruption to the school day as possible so you need to be organized, get in and out quickly. figure on a makeup day for kids that missed or parents that didn't like the image. You must be able to 100% recreate on makeup day what you did on shoot day - not close, exact. And you must get it 100% right in camera - you will never make money on high volume low margin shoots like this if you need to PS for anything.

some labs specialize in school stuff - they read the files from the school photo software and it's all barcoded and easy to deal with. you shoot, upload or send a CD, then send back the photos already in envelopes by classroom ready for you to deliver. Again, the more automated you can make it the better - fewer errors (and therefore phone calls, explanations, cost to fix, etc) and happier customers.

Prices vary by area, as do some other things - some schools want IDs, others want the photos/names in a database that the school or principal then uses to know who's who (and you must fit THEIR format - hence using the big name software out there - it's done for you and you know it will work.)

Things to consider - have insurance! Don't even think about shooting kids without it! If one knocks over your BG or lights into another kid their parent will be able to sue you for everything you've even thought of owning!
Clearances - around here to work with kids you need clearances to prove you're not a child molester or something similar. Not everyone needs it, but most do and it's cheap ($40 or so) and something that will help you sell yourself to the school. Not that you'd say your competition hires child molesters, but it's just proof that you don't. LOL

some more to read //www.micropubnews.com/publication/article.jsp?id=1322&pubId=5

There are other companies out there
//www.schoolpictures.net/index.php?page=software
//www.photolynx.com/

I'm still working on sports leagues - i'd like to get into schools but I'm not ready for that pressure yet!

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

03/09/2009 04:57:02 PM · #3

Hi Prof Fate, I thought you'd have a few answers!
I do have $10 million insurance, so thats ok, and have the lights that I need, have 2 assistants, have the working with children check done already, plus a good lab thats ready to put together the packages.....but that software - if thats $2500 US, that would be a phenomenal cost for me in Australia, and wouldn't be worth doing the job. The lab I'm using hasn't specified the software, they just said I'd need to take care with my renaming system, which is what I'm wondering about. I'm currently using lightroom, which is pretty good when it comes to renaming, so am wondering if that will work for me. There are 600 kids, so possibly not as many as some USA schools, we're not talking 1000's here (thank goodness).

I'll check out those links, thanks for putting them there, I have looked around before but these didn't crop up. You're absolutely right, the pressure is on, not sure I want it, but really could do with the extra income.

peterish

Nikon D90

03/09/2009 05:03:55 PM · #4

The most problematic issue will be linking each image with the name of the child. What system will you be implementing towards that goal?

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

03/09/2009 05:26:26 PM · #5

Originally posted by peterish:

The most problematic issue will be linking each image with the name of the child. What system will you be implementing towards that goal?

I have just been working that out. I will have 2 assistants - one to herd the kids, the other to write down the name of every child as I take it. I did this with Santa photography last year, and it worked well - not only the name was written on the form, but a brief description of hair colour, M/F, or any other distinguishing characteristic was noted just in case something went wrong.
I'm thinking that if I group the files into classes, then I would have say:
Class 1 - 30 students
names in order of shots taken
then rename the files class 1 - file 1 or something to that effect. That way there's only 30 kids in one folder at any time, and all files are backed up. Its a lot of work for me, but rather than spending a zillion dollars on software, I'm prepared to use the extra time to get it right.
My kids go to this school, which is an added bonus, as they can easily identify various kids from classes as an added backup!

I would shoot everything in jpeg, which I never normally do, but mucking around on lightroom isn't going to be an option with so many kids. Its a 'cool school' so they're looking for something a little different this time - they have a lovely bush backdrop so I'll be shooting with the bush in the background. But I'm also very aware of the possibility of rain or light changes so will also make sure its still under cover, with the backdrop behind them.

Am I crazy to try to do this?

peterish

Nikon D90

03/09/2009 06:01:05 PM · #6

That sounds do-able.

A few other things from my own experience:

-Scheduling is CRUCIAL (as prof_fate mentioned). The kids will probably be brought down class by class. Tell the PTA or whoever is in charge to space them out as a reasonable interval. To calculate the interval, I would say 1 minute per child if you are fast. So for a class of 20 kids, you can theoretically do 3 classes an hour. But since this is the first time for you, leave some space between each class. You have to work this out with the school authorities.

-Quality control. The background, posing and lighting must be identical for each and every kid. Will the distances between your lights and your subjects, and between your subjects and the background remain consistent the entire day? Head sizes should be consistent from person to person: eg, Jimmy's face is much taller and wider than Martin's face, but they must look the same size on the prints. Do you have a viewfinder system that shows you exactly how much to zoom in/out to deal with this?

-Workspace. Make sure the school find you a space that won't be disturbed that day. Auditorium stage or an unused classroom are examples. Block off your area so kids won't bump into your lights, etc.

-Organization. Your assistants must keep the kids lined up and under control. Which way are they coming in? which way are they leaving? etc. Make sure you don't mix up kids from one class with another.

-Objective. What is the purpose of the shots: yearbook, or just for sell to the parents? You will be asked how long it takes for delivery, "what if I don't like the pictures", "what if my hair is messed up today", "how do I pay you", "do you make mugs or calendars", "why should I trust you", etc. All of these must be planned out or you will stutter and lose credibility.

-Resources. Do you have the resources to handle 600 pictures: post-processing, taking orders, processing prints, making sure the name is correct, mailing out the packages.

Last but not least, no, you're not crazy, but it takes more work than you think. Be sure to have backup plans for EVERYTHING so you won't have to "figure it out as you go" on picture day.

Message edited by author 2009-03-09 18:04:26.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

03/09/2009 08:54:36 PM · #7

I've done sports leagues - my first was 440 kids on picture day - and I had no hard practice at this, and never with multiple photogs.

Each kid had an order form (I supplied 3 weeks earlier) and brought it and their payment on picture day.
My table worker collected the money, verified the form was filled out properly/completely. We had blank forms just in case. With sports pretty much you only shoot head shots of those buying a package so that simplified things a bit (no form no picture).
Photog took form from kid, shot pic (2 or 3 usually) and wrote the LAST number on the form. Faster than writing all or begin/end numbers and it works for me with 100% reliability. With sports all the kids are often dressed alike - an issue you may not have unless they have school uniforms so knowing where one kid's shots end and the next starts is easy.
I had a photog doing just team (in your case class) shots. He collected the forms and clipped each team together - this kept things organized. His first team shot had a sign (marker in a notebook) listing who the team was, then he wrote the file number on that page and clipped it to the team order forms.
We shot 440 kids in 6 hours w/ 2 doing individual shots. and yes, we had to pose every one of the buggers. LOL

For a college yearbook I have the kids sign in and I write the last number down. I then put that into a spreadsheet. I rename the files in LR with a prefix for each class year (freshman, sophomore, junior, senior, grad) and that goes on a disk to their yearbook person. I do go thru LR and crop everyone to 5x7 and try to make the head sizes the same, and evenly position in the frame.

Shooting tethered can eliminate most of this - the images come up on the computer screen, you pick one there, enter a name/class (class once then change it when the class changes). Usually you enter the package the kid bought as well. This of course takes more time per kid, but no time later. My 440 kid league took 15 to 20 minutes per team to enter into the computer...and there were 51 teams. Boring work.

This year i'm doing it the same. Next year i hope to grow my leagues from 1000 or so this year (so far this year) to 5,000 kids. (I just hired a marketing person - her goal is 2000 kids this year). And then I'll begin approaching schools..so software is on the horizon for me.

One lab here gives free software (HH Color lab) where you set up the packages and such before picture day. you print out pages with bar codes on them - one for every kid (on a sticker) as well as class/team, packages, etc. You then use this wireless scanner to scan a label for the kid (and attach it to the order form) then the package and team. shoot the kid. Back at the studio you DL the pics and the scanner it works on time sync and puts the kids and team pics and packages all together. Limit is 512 kids per scanner, but for larger jobs like that you'd have 2 photogs and need 2 scanners anyway. Scanners are $200. I've not seen anyone else doing this though.

AJSullivan

03/10/2009 09:20:18 AM · #8

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Each kid had an order form (I supplied 3 weeks earlier) and brought it and their payment on picture day.
My table worker collected the money, verified the form was filled out properly/completely. We had blank forms just in case. With sports pretty much you only shoot head shots of those buying a package so that simplified things a bit (no form no picture). Photog took form from kid, shot pic (2 or 3 usually) and wrote the LAST number on the form. Faster than writing all or begin/end numbers and it works for me with 100% reliability. With sports all the kids are often dressed alike - an issue you may not have unless they have school uniforms so knowing where one kid's shots end and the next starts is easy. I had a photog doing just team (in your case class) shots. He collected the forms and clipped each team together - this kept things organized. His first team shot had a sign (marker in a notebook) listing who the team was, then he wrote the file number on that page and clipped it to the team order forms. We shot 440 kids in 6 hours w/ 2 doing individual shots. and yes, we had to pose every one of the buggers."

This is my every weekend starting in 2 weeks and going right up til June. Anywhere from 200 - 600 kids a day per league, multiple leagues in a day. Simply glorious time for me haha.

Message edited by author 2009-03-10 09:21:01.

eschelar

Canon EOS-7D

03/10/2009 10:23:45 AM · #9

I am not a pro, but I hang out with a guy who used to do schools back in the days of film and he often tells me stories about those days.

You probably already have your own techniques, but I'll toss this out there just in case.

He often spoke of the value of a simple string. He used string in a few different colors to work out the geometry for his posing center versus the lights. Pre-measured and pre-marked strings from the light stand to the posing center and from light to the other light which also had a mark for light stand to tripod center shaft.

This allowed quick setup and correction if the lights were moved - and they do get moved.

he also used the string for tripod center to posing center for focal length of the lens.

I've never done anything like what you are looking at, but I've done a couple of kids shows with 6-700 shots from RAW that needed PS and renaming. Yech. I think you are right to avoid PP if at all possible. If you can, I'd also look at getting a system like Prof's where you grab the last shot of a kid and have the number written on the paper that your assistant is writing. By the time you have done the last shot, that assistant may not be anywhere near you, so you might end up doing that yourself. Additionally, you could shoot a blank frame in between kids if storage isn't an issue.

I have nothing else to add except that I hope it goes well.

AJSullivan

03/10/2009 10:48:54 AM · #10

Yeah, avoiding post processing outside of renaming is key. School photos and sports photos are just herding em in, sitting them down, shootin em, gettin em out, rinse, repeat. I always remember getting my photo taken just once, and then if it was crap, there was a retake day. Its really just a matter of efficiency. In and out is how it has to be.

Kid comes in, hands your asst the envelope, asst marks the envelope with a frame number, kid sits down, caddie corner, look, smile, click, out.

03/10/2009 09:59:03 PM · #11

Thanks for all your replies guys, its been very helpful. Its funny, when they asked me to do it they said they wanted 'something new, something fresh that takes in the 'cool school' environment. I do a lot of kids portraits, so thought 'yeah, why not, I can do this'. Now I'm realising that unless they are prepared to give me 2 or 3 days instead of 1 (which is all I can have), its physically impossible to do more than the usual school portrait. They all complain that the portraits are things they stick in boxes rather than in frames, but there is absolutely no concept of how much work it takes to shoot that many kids artistically AND in exactly the same way. Impossible! I'm actually beginning to think that even though there's money to be made, this is like doing the dishes in the kitchen instead of being a chef.
Still, if the work is there, in this global recession time, I gotta do it!

Thanks again :-)

AJSullivan

03/11/2009 09:23:43 AM · #12

Well the key is to include a little flyer in the portrait packages, letting the people know that you are available for weddings, portraits, sports, bar/bat mitzvahs etc. And a way for them to view the creative work you do.

Everything is a tool to generate more busines.s

My cookie cutter sports photos have opened the door for weddings and family portraits, where I get to flex my creativity, while still getting my bills paid by the sports work. If that makes sense.

03/11/2009 01:22:35 PM · #13

Originally posted by jettyimages:

Not true!

Here is my first visit to a college for yearbook pics and my first indoor sports pics

Here is my more recent work. Same gear, same light count and modifiers, etc. Just used the one tool that makes me unique -my brain!

First ones were flat lighting and muslin BG. Second time around I used the environment I was in and used one light as rim/hair light and one as main. It took no more space, set up time, PP time, pose time for the better images over the boring ones.

Message edited by author 2009-03-11 13:23:19.

03/11/2009 10:01:46 PM · #14

Thanks Chris, you've pulled me out of the doldrums there. So many people I've spoken to locally seem to think that its impossible to do something different, but you've proven it. What sort of lights did you use for the more recent shots?

And great idea ajdelaware, the cross marketing is definitely on the cards. I've been feeling so negative about it that I was more concerned about doing my portrait and wedding business harm by not giving them something really special, rather than the other way round. I'm usually a glass half full person, don't know what's got into me! Thanks :-)

03/14/2009 05:16:59 AM · #15

Hi again - I'm hoping

Prof_Fate is still there, as I want to thank you for the inspiration and show you one of the portraits I've come up with - very interested in your opinion. I managed to keep the 'bush school' element in the photo by going out into the bush and breaking off a branch of a gum tree, placing it in a bucket and using it as a background. So now I have the best of both worlds, the bush background and studio lighting. Do you think it works?
Here it is:

Message edited by author 2009-03-14 05:18:23.

03/14/2009 08:04:10 AM · #16

very nice, I like it! the file name is even longer than mine LOL

I use two 300ws monolights - one behind me and off to the side a bit (so I don't bump my head on the umbrell). I use a 60" shoot through for that. a second (same setup but bounced umbrella) is set behind and off to one side set at the same power. If the main light is camera right then the fill is camera left when possible to that the rim/back/hair light is on the dark side of the subject.

You've cropped nice and tight - I tend to shoot loose in general and my head shots are the same - I didn't realize this till I saw your shot. I do that for sports for good reason, but tigher makes sense for a yearbook where the pics will be very small so one needs to fill the frame to get as big a face as possible.

I tend to shoot this type of stuff around F4 on a crop body. I don't like to see the other side of the continent in focus like most school/sport photogs that shoot at F11.