Hmmmmmmm...... demotivated. - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/03/2009 08:56:45 AM · #1

OK so I let my membership run out for a while, I wasn't sure about entering any more images. I've learned a lot from here, and I think everyone on here is extremely helpful.

I think the two main things that frustrate me about DPC are the upload process (i.e. could be a lot smoother like flickr) and the voting (ha ha). Why people with amazing shots still gets 1's is beyond me, people should be called out on this. Also I thought that in some of the more recent challenges some poor shots (even DNMC's) were getting voted high because of the subject rather than the photography. Anyway, I'm big enough to get over this.

In the end I decided to renew as it's all a learning process, I know some of my shots don't cater to the DPC crowd but I thought I'll try to shoot that way anyway to see if I can and to win a ribbon. OK so I can't do two wine glasses balanced on a veiled woman covered in splashing water drops on the back of an over sharpened golden eagle flying through an Icelandic sky but hey. :-P

So I enter the light on white challenge (shoot and edit in about 20 mins), and start off with a score of 4! Up to about 4.5 now with 0 comments, I know it was rushed, but I wonder whether I've done the right thing... What a demotivator...

: (

I might just pull it.

Plus I spent all night shooting for the skin challenge, and that didn't come out right either, might try again tonight.

: (

Five_Seat

Canon EOS-6D

03/03/2009 09:07:32 AM · #2

Originally posted by rob_smith:

...two wine glasses balanced on a veiled woman covered in splashing water drops on the back of an over sharpened golden eagle flying through an Icelandic sky...

How'd you already guess my March FS?!?!?! entry...

Don't worry, you'll get you motivation back. I am just returning from a two-week no picture hiatus. It's dark, cold, and gray in the middle of winter here, and I didn't feel like going out and shooting. But now I feel better about my photography, and I am shooting again.

edit for grammar.

Message edited by author 2009-03-03 09:08:15.

sempermarine

Apple iPhone 5s

03/03/2009 09:11:30 AM · #3

Feeling de-motivated happens to all of us. A few months back I was going through the same type of questions. I was able to get through it by joining a side challenge. It allowed me to take shots of what I enjoyed and really helped me develop some of the basic skills required of a photographer. I was able to explore my creativity and really start to enjoy photography. Side challenges are pressure free and you will find some amazing shots and wonderful people who will be encouraging and helpful. Sometimes you even get a fancy ribbon. Check out this side challenge and jump in.

ErikV

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

03/03/2009 11:29:44 AM · #4

Have your wife/mother/father/sister/brother/kids lock up your camera for two or three months -- spend your free time doing something totally different during those two to three months -- when you get the camera back you should be ready to go again.

toddhead

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II

03/03/2009 12:40:51 PM · #5

I was pretty much demotivated for the year of 2006. You just need to shoot subjects that move you. Don't worry about the voters.

TallPaul

Nikon D7000

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

03/03/2009 02:53:45 PM · #6

Like you, I would guess I really need to learn not to take all this too seriously. Although a great community and a great place to learn and improve DPC is just one small part of what should make you a photographer. What floats here might not elsewhere. Neither way does it make you a bad photographer. Use the experience for just that, try to learn and not worry too much about the votes.

As an aside I had 4 books of photos recently delivered from Amazon seeking inspiration. With the exception of the (amazing) National Geogrpahic book I would say a huge proportion of the other photos in other books would struggle to get above 5 on a DPC challenge and I reckon there would be a few potential 'browns' in there too. There are no bad photos in these books (and some amazing and truely inspirational ones), just not pictures that would do well on this site.

Stick at it and enjoy the progress you make.

All the best , Paul

PS - I took a look through at your profile. You have some amazing shots there (certainly shows how much I have to learn) and I would suspect a ribbon is not far off. I often get up to your part of the world and I love your Chester24 photos. Keep it up.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

03/03/2009 03:39:45 PM · #7

Well,

rob_smith, I just briefly looked at your portfolio, and wonder if you haven't raised the bar too high! As for challenges, I suspect the muse is often very bad tempered and uncooperative.

Jason_Cross

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

03/03/2009 03:48:06 PM · #8

Challenges are a weird thing. I score bad most of the time, but I don't think that my photos are bad. So you really just have to take it with a grain of salt. I know that my photos would not even be close to where they are today without the feedback that I have received here. It is frustrating to get favorites on a sub-six image in the votes, but that is just how it is.

My suggestion is for you to always make images that make you happy and let the site come to you. Don't get frustrated just keep remembering why you take photos.

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

03/03/2009 03:50:51 PM · #9

Thanks all for the truly motivating and kind comments!

I have an idea for the skin challenge that I am going to shoot tonight, hopefully it will fair slightly better than my light on white debacle!

As well as providing invaluable advice, you guys 'n' gals really are inspirational!

: )

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/03/2009 03:59:44 PM · #10

It's a tough thing to learn how to interpret the votes and comments you receive. You have to figure out with the feedback (or lack of it) if it was really a poor photo, or if you just failed to nail the broad appeal factor. Looking back over some of my earlier entries, I can see why they scored as they did. But then, I have some others that I think are junk and can't figure out how they did as well as they did. I can definitely see my photography has improved. Not sure if my average score shows it, though. Perhaps if I stayed away from the gag shots.

Prash

Nikon D90

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

03/03/2009 04:00:02 PM · #11

From what I can sense, DPC is like a family.. albeit a really close-knit one sometimes. People deny the presence of any 'circles' so to say, but as you stay longer, you make acquaintances.. esp. if you are active in helping others and participating in discussions.

From a distance, DPC looks like a group where only a few people rotate as winners on the front page (if that is your concern at all), but if you stay longer, you will realise it is because they have refined their talent and skills over years.

Sites like Flickr will definitely attract more users because that is like a groups of people who all make efforts to gather and praise everyone else (well.. at least most of the time).. while DPC can be more ruthless.. but honest.

In my experience, a presence at DPC along with another portal (like Flickr) keeps the balance going... one supporting the other. DPC isnt -everything-you-wanted-in-a-photography-website-, but for what it is, it does a damn good job I think IMHO.

Sure there are frustrations. But can one expect to enter new facets and arenas with the unknowns of how you would fare without any stress at all? That would be impractical. Imagine if everybody got 6's and 7's in challenges here.. it wont be long before DPC would die because then it would be another Flickr.

On the other hand, the point you bring about voting process is interesting. Having open (non-anonymous) voting may not work on DPC I think. People will refrain from voting honestly with a concern of being called back afterwards... at best, the number of votes will decrease drastically. Another option would be to disallow any personal/public communication between the users to avoid name-calling after an open voting. But can you imagine the amount of frustration that would generate? Needless to say that would be curbing the freedom of speech.

I am actually trying a simple way to have open (non-anonymous) voting here. But as you will see, the voting community shrinks considerably if they know their name is out there with the votes.

In the end, you have to find what suits your likes best. Personally, I need a balance between the cut-throat ruthlessness at DPC and an open praising stage of Flickr. That works for me:-)

Good luck buddy!

ETA: Just to give an example, check this thread. I was so pleased with my zoo visit lately, and thought I brought home the perfect pictures. But as I sought comments/criticism here on DPC, I learnt that I could improve the shot framing (e.g. click when the subject makes an eye contact) for one, and frame the shot better, to name a few. On Flickr, however, all I got was applauds. Cant imagine growing as a photog just with applauds.. fellows here on DPC are upfront at times, but it helps.

Message edited by author 2009-03-03 16:13:10.

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

03/03/2009 04:52:55 PM · #12

I have had some ambivalent feelings with photography lately.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/03/2009 05:08:42 PM · #13

Originally posted by Prash:

Sites like Flickr will definitely attract more users because that is like a groups of people who all make efforts to gather and praise everyone else (well.. at least most of the time).. while DPC can be more ruthless.. but honest.

Exactly why DPC makes such a good companion to Flickr. I like to have my stuff appreciated, but I don't care for cheap praise. I like the forums and community on Flickr, and it's a kick to have a photo get Explored. However, I've also done a few eye rolls over so-so stuff on Flickr with dozens of invites and comments that say "brilliant", "fantastic" and "this is your best evah!"

Jason_Cross

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

03/03/2009 05:15:36 PM · #14

I only load a couple images up on this site. This site is not about quantity, but quality. So in my opinion the ability to upload a single image is perfect for this type of site.

03/03/2009 11:15:44 PM · #15

On the voting call out, what I mean is that if the admins can see that someone who enters a challenge is obviously voting some great shots as 1-2's and some very poor shots as 10's just to manipulate their average, then they should be called out on it. This could take the form of a private warning once, then a public one second time around. When I see 1's on an outstanding shot, especially one that has ribboned, then I assume (and I may be wrong) that someone is deliberately trying to bring the score down so that theirs can do better. Obviously admins can see if someone is doing this many times so they can make final judgment.

Back to reality.

OK, so I've entered a shot in the Skin challenge, binned my last idea and shot a completely new idea. Hopefully this should do slightly better.

Fingers crossed...

I think the reason I renewed my membership is because of a comment made on here a while ago about what "caters to the DPC crowd". People were arguing about the sort of shots that win all the time and one of the regulars said something like, I apologise if well composed, creative, well shot, well lit, tack sharp photographs keep winning. And that got me thinking.

I know a lot of the high scoring shots are very "stock", so my challenge is to try and win a ribbon to try to prove to myself that I can shoot like this. Because even though it may not be what drives me, I want to show myself that I am a flexible photographer and that I can shoot professional looking shots if required by a client. I have the equipment and the lighting, therefore I have no excuse not to try.

Here's to being motivated again!

: )

P.S. I might even start on water drops! ha ha

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

03/04/2009 12:31:02 AM · #16

Originally posted by rob_smith:

When I see 1's on an outstanding shot, especially one that has ribboned, then I assume (and I may be wrong) that someone is deliberately trying to bring the score down so that theirs can do better.

This is too funny, my first score is, lets say less than 3. Ha ha, so it's either a really good hot or really poor! Oh dear...

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/04/2009 12:43:57 AM · #17

Originally posted by rob_smith:

This is too funny, my first score is, lets say less than 3. Ha ha, so it's either a really good hot or really poor! Oh dear...

That 3 could be from one of the folks that gives a default low vote if an image does not move them or speak to them in some way. If that is the case, they are not saying it's bad, they are saying it did not get their attention for any reason.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/04/2009 12:46:01 AM · #18

Originally posted by rob_smith:

The first part is pretty much what happens. We don't "call people out" in public -- that's not the way this site works. If people are voting "out of line" the vote-scrubber will catch it, and we can take action if it doesn't or there appears some other type of problem. If people violate the site's rules and "attempt to manipulate the vote" they may be warned, suspended, or banned, depending on the egregiousness of the offense.

However, that is nothing which need concern you, the typical voter. As with photo validation, you should assume all votes are legitmate expressions of the voter's opinion until and unless the SC declares otherwise. I suggest you (and everyone) just concentrate on applying your own votes consistently and fairly, and quit worrying about how other people vote -- if everyone does that, there will be no problem.

FWIW: The first vote I got on tonite's entry was a 1 -- is that how I'd vote it? Of course not. But if that's the reaction someone had to it, I think it's a good thing to know about. And it certainly wasn't someone voting my image down to improve the placement of their own entry, unless they are only competing to break into the top 100 ...