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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Message to the judgmental masses here on DPC:
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01/08/2009 05:55:42 PM · #1
Did my first ever self-DQ for the challenge "unlucky"

Now you can look at my photos and my history. I've had some loooow scoring images that I didn't self-DQ. That I expected to score low... But this was just too much.

I know it wasn't a prize winner BUT 3.8 and why... well the comments I got said it all...

Apparently you all seem to have mistaken my 22 year old female model for a young boy with comments like "I don't think he's old enough to be holding that beer." "lets see some ID" etc.

#1 Yes I know what she looks like in the shot. But EVEN IF you honestly mistakenly believed it was a young guy... drinking age in Germany is 16 for beer... not sure about other countries but I'm sure there are a lot of other countries that have a lower drinking age than the ridiculous age of 21 here in the states. Is this not an international site?

#2 Thinking my model shouldn't be holding a beer has nothing to do with the shot. Give a shot what it deserves. Don't get me wrong... I was expecting no more than a low 5 on this shot but not in the 3s. 3s usually go to camera phone shots or images that don't meet the challenge in the slightest.

So basically my message is: It's none of your damn business who is holding the beer. In this case the majority of you were dead wrong anyway and let your judgements on drinking interfere with actually voting a photo what it deserves.
01/08/2009 06:19:33 PM · #2
Maybe your commenters had had one too many beers themselves ... ;-)
01/08/2009 06:33:07 PM · #3
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Maybe your commenters had had one too many beers themselves ... ;-)


Who the heck knows! It never ceases to amaze me the things that get put in that comment box...
01/08/2009 06:42:34 PM · #4
In all fairness to the voters/commenters, in this picture, your friend looks like a 12 year old boy, regardless of what she is in real life.

I did not vote on this one, but if I had, it *might* have garnered a 5, but most likely a 4. I rarely give anything below a three, so while I may not have given it a 3, I'm not really surprised that people did.

I don't know that it (the vote) is really related to the beer/underage drinking issue -- unless the comments say "I gave this a three because. . . ." it is really just, how can I say it gently, judgmental speculation on your part. :P

There may have been *some,* but I seriously doubt that contributed to all of them. I think there are some photographic things going on that hurt the score more. If it was scoring 3.8, that is really not that big a surprise to me. I wouldn't have expected it to pull more than a 4.2 or 4.3.
01/08/2009 06:55:58 PM · #5
Honestly, the photo wasn't thrilling. I made an ID comment in gest, it didn't affect my vote. The photo was a fun snapshot, but I didn't think it was of any particular merrit or really relative to the challenge (but hey, what was in this one?!). Now, that said, you are a brilliant photographer and you do great work. Please don't let this get you down! Sorry you felt bad, I will try to be more careful in my commenting in the future.

If it makes you feel better, my wife is 29 and still gets carded at R rated movies.
01/08/2009 07:04:09 PM · #6
Originally posted by Jdroullard:

Honestly, the photo wasn't thrilling. I made an ID comment in gest, it didn't affect my vote. The photo was a fun snapshot, but I didn't think it was of any particular merrit or really relative to the challenge (but hey, what was in this one?!). Now, that said, you are a brilliant photographer and you do great work. Please don't let this get you down! Sorry you felt bad, I will try to be more careful in my commenting in the future.

If it makes you feel better, my wife is 29 and still gets carded at R rated movies.


Your comment I could tell it was in jest. It was more the others that specifically said "that boy shouldn't be holding a beer" that were really upsetting. She was sitting right next to me when I was looking at the comments and saw... luckily it didn't bother her. She's pretty used to it.

As far as my photo not being thrilling. As I said, I knew that, but seriously, the other shots in the challenge are no prizes either. That's just the kind of challenge this one is... not very inspiring. I didn't have my hopes up high on this but I didn't expect lower than a 5 on a challenge this size.

We were camping and her friends left us with all this crappy beer that we didn't want to carry the 3 mile hike back so we dumped it creatively! Which also explains her clothing and the choice of using beer.
01/08/2009 07:11:19 PM · #7
for sure, I think this one challenge brought my average vote given way down. I'm going to abstain from voting the rest of the day because I just got back from a root canal, and that just wouldn't be fair to the participants (ya know vicodin induced votes/comments) :-)
01/08/2009 07:17:07 PM · #8
Originally posted by karmat:

In all fairness to the voters/commenters, in this picture, your friend looks like a 12 year old boy, regardless of what she is in real life.

I did not vote on this one, but if I had, it *might* have garnered a 5, but most likely a 4. I rarely give anything below a three, so while I may not have given it a 3, I'm not really surprised that people did.

I don't know that it (the vote) is really related to the beer/underage drinking issue -- unless the comments say "I gave this a three because. . . ." it is really just, how can I say it gently, judgmental speculation on your part. :P

There may have been *some,* but I seriously doubt that contributed to all of them. I think there are some photographic things going on that hurt the score more. If it was scoring 3.8, that is really not that big a surprise to me. I wouldn't have expected it to pull more than a 4.2 or 4.3.


In a challenge this size? With the other entries being what they are? I have to politely disagree. These are my 2 lowest scoring shots:

4.2 in a challenge of 311 entries

and

4.2 in a challenge of 288 entries

Those I got... I understand. They are very non-DPC shots.

though... this entry's score:


my 3rd lowest ever just last week still baffles me completely. Not because I think it's particularly stunning but because the shots that scored above it well... I'm not going to go there and point at specific ones but... I'll just say I must have some sort of ANTI-DPC musk or something because the shots that scored above that one make me want to say "F*** It" and buy a 10 year old point and shoot and take photos of my damn doggy scratching his nose on my couch.

SO... when I saw the score and comment for this one... in comparison to the others. Yea. I'm mad. not discouraged in myself because I know what I am and am not capable of and what my shots merit. What gets me mad is that who the hell are any of these people to know what the heck is going on? I don't know hoooow many times my lowest scores or meanest comments and I went to look and the person who voted had the WORST photos I've ever seen.

Ok I'm done. That's why I put this in the rant section... cus it would have just gotten moved here anyway. And yes, I'm aware the idiocy of the voters here as be beaten to death. But I, like a child that keeps burning her hand on the oven, keep coming back for more abuse and confusion.

01/08/2009 07:52:45 PM · #9
I'm a little mystified with this post. I just looked and it appears that 5 days remain in voting for "unlucky". But you pulled you entry because of a few comments and a low appearing score? I learned long ago not to pay attention to scores in the first day or two of voting. After my first encounter with the midnight troller I turned off the update button on my account. The only score I'm interested in is the final one. As far as comments, ignoring anonymous internet comments is probably the easiest thing you'll have to do this year. It's a shame I can't vote and comment on the image. I was just getting ready to vote on lucky/unlucky and was thinking of trying to comment on all the images of both. Now that's a task that I have trouble completing. How to maintain a variety of comments on 150 images without using a "good job" macro.
01/08/2009 08:01:03 PM · #10
In the almost 7 years I've been here, I don't think the size of the challenge effects the scores all that much. There are just fewer pictures to be spread out over the scores.

3.8 may have been low, but, IMHO, 4.2 or 4.3 would have been about as high as it "should" have gotten.

I don't know about everybody, but I know many people (like myself) don't vote "comparatively." That is, I don't choose one best and give it a 10 and so forth. Likewise, I don't say, "well, this picture is better than all the rest, so it gets a higher score*." If the best picture in a challenge (to me) is a 6, it is a 6. It doesn't matter, to me, how much better than the others it is. There was one challenge recently, I don't recall which one, that my average vote given was like 5.2 (almost .5 lower than my average). I don't think there were any 10s, and maybe one 9 -- and that is very odd for me. (Also, I would like to point out to generalQ reader that I am not saying any one method is "right" or "preferred" over the other).

(*The only exception is if there are four or five of the same thing in a tree. I might "rank" them within themselves," but that is more of an internal control to make sure I dont' vote something down just because there are 32 of them in a challenge.)

I just get rankled when people talk about "idiot voters" or the "idiocy of voters" or "stupid voters" etc, because, frankly, I try to vote in every challenge, and it gets a bit personal. I just don't take well to being called an idiot.
01/08/2009 08:02:41 PM · #11
Originally posted by fir3bird:

I'm a little mystified with this post. I just looked and it appears that 5 days remain in voting for "unlucky". But you pulled you entry because of a few comments and a low appearing score? I learned long ago not to pay attention to scores in the first day or two of voting. After my first encounter with the midnight troller I turned off the update button on my account. The only score I'm interested in is the final one. As far as comments, ignoring anonymous internet comments is probably the easiest thing you'll have to do this year. It's a shame I can't vote and comment on the image. I was just getting ready to vote on lucky/unlucky and was thinking of trying to comment on all the images of both. Now that's a task that I have trouble completing. How to maintain a variety of comments on 150 images without using a "good job" macro.


well as i said normally i wouldn't have done it. But it wouldn't have made it any more than a 4.2 even with vote scrubbing (which I've gotten before no big deal) but mostly I couldn't stand to get any more comments on it that were ignorant. The ones I got so far weren't horrible or offensive (just short-sighted)... I just wasn't prepared for one to come along that was offensive...

For example... I had a shot of a male model a while back that someone commented that he looked gay or asked if he was (and it was in a negative way), can't remember what exactly was said but the commenter and I had it out and he would not apologize or admit that it wasn't a valid comment. Either way, that just set me off because A. completely irrelevant and B. none of his business. C. offensive.

When its me (as in a self portrait) I can handle people saying stuff. But a model, that let me shoot them for free and use their image on the internet. I feel the need to protect them. They didn't sign on to be ridiculed.

ETA: I just found and reread that gay comment from a while back. It's even more offensive than I remembered... good grief.

Message edited by author 2009-01-08 20:08:41.
01/08/2009 08:07:58 PM · #12
Originally posted by karmat:

In the almost 7 years I've been here, I don't think the size of the challenge effects the scores all that much. There are just fewer pictures to be spread out over the scores.

3.8 may have been low, but, IMHO, 4.2 or 4.3 would have been about as high as it "should" have gotten.

I don't know about everybody, but I know many people (like myself) don't vote "comparatively." That is, I don't choose one best and give it a 10 and so forth. Likewise, I don't say, "well, this picture is better than all the rest, so it gets a higher score*." If the best picture in a challenge (to me) is a 6, it is a 6. It doesn't matter, to me, how much better than the others it is. There was one challenge recently, I don't recall which one, that my average vote given was like 5.2 (almost .5 lower than my average). I don't think there were any 10s, and maybe one 9 -- and that is very odd for me. (Also, I would like to point out to generalQ reader that I am not saying any one method is "right" or "preferred" over the other).

(*The only exception is if there are four or five of the same thing in a tree. I might "rank" them within themselves," but that is more of an internal control to make sure I dont' vote something down just because there are 32 of them in a challenge.)

I just get rankled when people talk about "idiot voters" or the "idiocy of voters" or "stupid voters" etc, because, frankly, I try to vote in every challenge, and it gets a bit personal. I just don't take well to being called an idiot.


Understandable. But I don't think the "idiocy" refers to voters like yourself. I don't mind being voted down for good, photographic reason. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's more the people that just sign up on the site, have a couple REALLY BAD photos and then make comments like "nope" and "???" then proceed to give out a slew of 1,2, and 3s.
01/08/2009 08:13:03 PM · #13
Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Maybe your commenters had had one too many beers themselves ... ;-)


Who the heck knows! It never ceases to amaze me the things that get put in that comment box...


maybe we should comment less now.
but anyway, since we cant view your "Unlucky" submission yet (voting not over) maybe you should reflect a little on whether you have picked the right person as your model for beer? we know how many self-proclaimed-moral-police there are around here on the site, so it might have been a good idea if you had ensured that the model of your choice at least LOOKED like he/she is not under aged.

sorry about the DQ and the ugly score.
01/08/2009 08:25:06 PM · #14
Originally posted by crayon:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Maybe your commenters had had one too many beers themselves ... ;-)


Who the heck knows! It never ceases to amaze me the things that get put in that comment box...


maybe we should comment less now.
but anyway, since we cant view your "Unlucky" submission yet (voting not over) maybe you should reflect a little on whether you have picked the right person as your model for beer? we know how many self-proclaimed-moral-police there are around here on the site, so it might have been a good idea if you had ensured that the model of your choice at least LOOKED like he/she is not under aged.

sorry about the DQ and the ugly score.


well as i said... we were camping and had beer we wanted to dump anyway. So it's not like I had this plan and got a model and said "yes! I will have her holding beer!"

It's just what I shot on the spur of the moment idea to not feel bad wasting the beer... it became the subject of the photo. And normally she doesn't look so much like a young boy, it was just her expression and attire in that shot.

Also I made it a rule to myself long ago not to change what I do based on the people here on this site. Until it comes to my model getting insulted, then the photo is yanked. End of story.
01/08/2009 09:08:02 PM · #15
In ref to this challenge The first time I viewed my score it had 5 votes and a score of 4.3 at 8 votes it was 4.1 , current tally 101 votes 6.1 I think the first wave of voters were NFL officials.
01/09/2009 08:31:40 AM · #16
Yep... nothing like expressing one's disdain for the judgemental masses by passing judgement on the masses. While I can certainly appreciate the ire you are experiencing, attacking the voters is not likely to garner a great deal of support for your cause.

I will make a point of looking for your image once the challenge is over and at least provide you with some insight as to what I think of it.

Ray
01/09/2009 08:37:20 AM · #17
Unfortunately you will not find it Ray. Its my understanding the self DQs disappear and do not show up with the other DQs.
01/09/2009 08:39:56 AM · #18
Originally posted by escapetooz:

... and buy a 10 year old point and shoot and take photos of my damn doggy scratching his nose on my couch.

9 from me, for sure.
01/09/2009 09:17:45 AM · #19
It's worth noting that you requested a Self-DQ the day after voting started. In my experience, that's usually the lowest point in the scoring, and the entry may very well have finished above 4 (probably). I've received comments with incorrect assumptions about gender and other issues, too, but in this case it probably only affected your overall score a little– perhaps a quarter point. The element of luck was a stretch IMO (especially with a concept so easily staged), and without a readily apparent challenge connection it's just not a very exciting photo... below average by your own high standards.

Think of it as a learning experience. From this thread alone, I've learned the terms "Anti-DPC muskâ„¢" and "generalIQ reader." Good stuff!

â„¢Anti-DPC Musk is a registered trademark of Whiterook & Charliebaker, Inc.
01/09/2009 09:36:34 AM · #20
Escapetooz

I voted on your submission but I didn't get a chance to comment. Notwithstanding the low score, is the image still available for commenting? I've seen your previous submissions and it's clear you have a lot of talent but, from memory, I don't think the shot was up to your previous high standards.

Is there any way you could have reported the comments to have them removed from the picture?

Keep your chin up and remember, at the end of the day you have more talent than most users of this site. However, if your submission bombs it's becuase the viewers didn't get it or didn't like it. Sometimes you strike gold, other times you don't, but keep smiling and remember you're doing it for yourself.
01/09/2009 09:36:48 AM · #21
Originally posted by scalvert:

It's worth noting that you requested a Self-DQ the day after voting started. In my experience, that's usually the lowest point in the scoring, and the entry may very well have finished above 4 (probably). I've received comments with incorrect assumptions about gender and other issues, too, but in this case it probably only affected your overall score a little– perhaps a quarter point. The element of luck was a stretch IMO (especially with a concept so easily staged), and without a readily apparent challenge connection it's just not a very exciting photo... below average by your own high standards.

Think of it as a learning experience. From this thread alone, I've learned the terms "Anti-DPC muskâ„¢" and "generalIQ reader." Good stuff!

â„¢Anti-DPC Musk is a registered trademark of Whiterook & Charliebaker, Inc.


Sir, that is general-Q, not generalIQ. :) As opposed to John Q., ya know?
01/09/2009 09:44:30 AM · #22
Originally posted by karmat:

Sir, that is general-Q, not generalIQ. :) As opposed to John Q., ya know?

Bah- I like GeneralIQ better. ;-P
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