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DPChallenge Forums >> Side Challenges and Tournaments >> 2009 FSM Point System and Rules
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 12/19/2008 03:25:56 PM · #1
POINTS OVERVIEW
The FSM awards two types of points each month to members that participate in that months DPChallenge.com Monthly Free Study. The two types of points are “Participation Points” and “ Improvement Points”; both are explained below. I will also explain how these two points combined gives each participant there overall FSM Score.

PARTICIPATION POINTS
Each month the FSM awards participating members with Participation Points. The points are earned based on your score compared to other FSM participants. The monthly participation points will be based on a percentile scale meaning that the most points that can be earned in any given month will be 100 and the least will be zero. The highest scoring FSM participant will receive 100 points while the lowest will receive zero. The monthly participating points will be carried out two decimal places to minimize the chance of a tie and each month’s participation points will be added together to give the overall participation points.

Improvement Points (I-Points)
Improvement points are based on the participants DPChallenge.com overall average on January 1st. Each participants DPC average will be recorded on that date and all FSM months’ scores will be compared to their DPC average. If you fail to improve your average you will not be penalized but if you improve upon your average you will be awarded I-points.

Improvement Points will be calculated as follows.
Less than or equal to your Beginning DPC Average: 0 points
Improvement of .0001 - .2499: 1 point
Improvement of .2500 - .4999: 2 points
Improvement of .5000 - .7499: 3 points
Improvement of .7500 - .9999: 4 points
Improvement of 1.000 or greater: 5 points

Each month’s improvements points will be added together to give your overall improvement points.

FSM Points
The FSM Points is the Overall Monthly Participation Points and Overall Improvement Points added together. The FSM Points will determine the ranking of all participants during the course of the FSM and at the conclusion of the season the FSM participant with the most FSM Points will be the FSM Champion

If you have any questions feel free to ask in this thread.
Thanks,
Scott


NOTE: I will be posting the rules later today. Don't worry, not to many rules :)
 12/19/2008 03:50:32 PM · #2
Sounds complicated. Are you sure Improvement Points are needed? Maybe you should base them on prior entry and not average. Just a suggestion.
 12/19/2008 04:05:29 PM · #3
Are Improvement Points based only on the initial January snapshot of the stats, or is each new score compared with the new average after incorporating previous scores?
 12/19/2008 04:16:36 PM · #4
Originally posted by SDW:
PARTICIPATION POINTS[/b]
Improvement Points (I-Points)[/b]
Improvement points are based on the participants DPChallenge.com overall average on January 1st.
12/19/2008 04:18:08 PM · #5
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Are Improvement Points based only on the initial January snapshot of the stats, or is each new score compared with the new average after incorporating previous scores?

Only on January 1st snapshot. I know it would be better to compare it on the new average but that would mean each month I would have to go back and enter everyones new score manually.

I am open to suggestions on what would be better than just using Jan 1st snapshot of everyone's dpc average score.

Here are some other ways I was thinking about calculating the I-points.

1. Take everyones January 1st DPC average score and dividing it by the amount of FSM participants and that would be the base starting point. But I don't see how that would help anyone.

2. I have thought about not having I points at all.

suggestion?
 12/19/2008 04:20:12 PM · #6
My question is this, does the first month begin with rollover on this December or is it January free study that is the first one. I think I'd like to give this a shot, but I havent shot anything for the FS thats going into rollover this month.

Matt
 12/19/2008 04:21:50 PM · #7
Runs January through December, so the first one will be the January FS.
 12/19/2008 04:23:02 PM · #8
Originally posted by MattO:
My question is this, does the first month begin with rollover on this December or is it January free study that is the first one. I think I'd like to give this a shot, but I havent shot anything for the FS thats going into rollover this month.

Matt

January 2009 is the first month of the 2009 season. So the first months results will be posted on Feb 8th, 2009 after voting has ended on January's Free Study.
 12/19/2008 04:23:42 PM · #9
In my opinion it would be better if you're going to base anything on an average such as your I-Points you should NOT use the overall average found on the profile pages, instead use an average of the last 20 or so entries. That way you would get a more accurate picture of how each photographer is currently doing. My overall average is 6.29 but my average over the last 1-2 years has been around 6.5-6.6. Others have far more of a gap in their overall average and what they are scoring of late. If the I-Point system is suppose to gauge improvement then an accurate assessment of each players current abilities need to be used. Anyway, just a suggestion.
12/19/2008 04:29:22 PM · #10
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by MattO:
My question is this, does the first month begin with rollover on this December or is it January free study that is the first one. I think I'd like to give this a shot, but I havent shot anything for the FS thats going into rollover this month.

Matt

January 2009 is the first month of the 2009 season. So the first months results will be posted on Feb 8th, 2009 after voting has ended on January's Free Study.


Thanks Scott, can you add me to the list, or do I need to post in the other thread?

Matt
 12/19/2008 04:30:24 PM · #11
Originally posted by yanko:
In my opinion it would be better if you're going to base anything on an average such as your I-Points you should NOT use the overall average found on the profile pages, instead use an average of the last 20 or so entries. That way you would get a more accurate picture of how each photographer is currently doing. My overall average is 6.29 but my average over the last 1-2 years has been around 6.5-6.6. Others have far more of a gap in their overall average and what they are scoring of late. If the I-Point system is suppose to gauge improvement then an accurate assessment of each players current abilities need to be used. Anyway, just a suggestion.

I agree but it would take me a long time to go through everyones profile and add up their last 20 challenges and get the average. UNLESS each member could do it and submit it to me or if langdon could populate such a calculation if I gave him a list of all participants on January 1st.

I like the idea
 12/19/2008 04:32:35 PM · #12
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by MattO:
My question is this, does the first month begin with rollover on this December or is it January free study that is the first one. I think I'd like to give this a shot, but I havent shot anything for the FS thats going into rollover this month.

Matt

January 2009 is the first month of the 2009 season. So the first months results will be posted on Feb 8th, 2009 after voting has ended on January's Free Study.


Thanks Scott, can you add me to the list, or do I need to post in the other thread?

Matt

MattO could you send me a PM. That way I have a central place with all the names. It makes it easier to make sure I have not left anyone out. I will go ahead a add you to the FSM but please send me a pm so I can keep up with all participants.
Thanks,
Scott
 12/19/2008 04:40:11 PM · #13
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by yanko:
In my opinion it would be better if you're going to base anything on an average such as your I-Points you should NOT use the overall average found on the profile pages, instead use an average of the last 20 or so entries. That way you would get a more accurate picture of how each photographer is currently doing. My overall average is 6.29 but my average over the last 1-2 years has been around 6.5-6.6. Others have far more of a gap in their overall average and what they are scoring of late. If the I-Point system is suppose to gauge improvement then an accurate assessment of each players current abilities need to be used. Anyway, just a suggestion.

I agree but it would take me a long time to go through everyones profile and add up their last 20 challenges and get the average. UNLESS each member could do it and submit it to me or if langdon could populate such a calculation if I gave him a list of all participants on January 1st.

I like the idea


Are most of the people signing up new participants or returning participants? If the latter than maybe it would be easiest to just pull the FSM 2008 averages and use that as a starting point and then manually figure out the averages of the remaining new ones.

Message edited by author 2008-12-19 16:41:08.
 12/19/2008 04:46:28 PM · #14
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by yanko:
In my opinion it would be better if you're going to base anything on an average such as your I-Points you should NOT use the overall average found on the profile pages, instead use an average of the last 20 or so entries. That way you would get a more accurate picture of how each photographer is currently doing. My overall average is 6.29 but my average over the last 1-2 years has been around 6.5-6.6. Others have far more of a gap in their overall average and what they are scoring of late. If the I-Point system is suppose to gauge improvement then an accurate assessment of each players current abilities need to be used. Anyway, just a suggestion.

I agree but it would take me a long time to go through everyones profile and add up their last 20 challenges and get the average. UNLESS each member could do it and submit it to me or if langdon could populate such a calculation if I gave him a list of all participants on January 1st.

I like the idea


Are most of the people signing up new participants or returning participants? If the latter than maybe it would be easiest to just pull the FSM 2008 averages and use that as a starting point and then manually figure out the averages of the remaining new ones.

Some new and a lot of returning members
 12/19/2008 04:58:47 PM · #15
Can you only put one entry in a calander month or able too submit more then one?
 12/19/2008 05:05:46 PM · #16
Originally posted by toddster45:
Can you only put one entry in a calendar month or able too submit more then one?

It is only for Free study entries, therefore just one.
 12/19/2008 05:22:11 PM · #17
Originally posted by yanko:
In my opinion it would be better if you're going to base anything on an average such as your I-Points you should NOT use the overall average found on the profile pages, instead use an average of the last 20 or so entries. That way you would get a more accurate picture of how each photographer is currently doing. My overall average is 6.29 but my average over the last 1-2 years has been around 6.5-6.6. Others have far more of a gap in their overall average and what they are scoring of late. If the I-Point system is suppose to gauge improvement then an accurate assessment of each players current abilities need to be used. Anyway, just a suggestion.


No no no yanko....I need those overall Improvement points lol. I can't go anywhere but up! Actually now that i think about it, it's the free study's thats bringing my average donw the most.
 12/22/2008 03:48:46 PM · #18
Lets discuss Improvement Points.

1). Keep it the way I have presented it in the OP.

2). How would everyone feel if I calculated everyone last five free study scores then dividing that by 5 to get the beginning average for all participants. If a participant has not entered a free study in the past year then I will take there last 5 member challenge entered.

3). Do away with I-Points and base the FSM points on participants scores alone

What do you think?

Message edited by author 2008-12-22 15:51:36.
 12/22/2008 04:38:18 PM · #19
How much have the I-points helped or hindered the top ten so far this year?
 12/22/2008 04:43:31 PM · #20
I vote 3), unless you want me to automate 2) so you don't have to pour over the numbers. Just send me a list of nickanmes or user_id's.
 12/22/2008 09:01:05 PM · #21
Originally posted by smurfguy:
I vote 3), unless you want me to automate 2) so you don't have to pour over the numbers. Just send me a list of nickanmes or user_id's.

I'm thinking #3 would be the best. It would make it easier to track and after all the side challenge is about being a marathon not improvment points. I run the FSM so that people will hopefully enter as many challenges as possible and improve but the more I think about it, the improvement is going to come with entering more FS's. So I think the emphasis should be on the marathon.

Give me a couple of days to think it over. I may do away with the I-points and let everyone start level. I think that would be a good idea. What ya think?

Originally posted by Melethia:
How much have the I-points helped or hindered the top ten so far this year?

It has hurt some high average participants and helped some average or low average participants but I don't think it has made that much of a difference.
 12/22/2008 10:26:09 PM · #22
FCrom my perspective, the "problem" with I-points is that if you have entered a LOT of challenges, individual scores don't move the average much at all, whereas if you have enetered very few challenges then go on a tear, your I-points can be huge.

Another "problem" with I-points is that they represent a way of "handicapping" the players, to give what amount to "unearned points" to participants with very low averages entering the year.

It would be my inclination to do away with I-points altogether, I guess that's option 3?

R.
 12/22/2008 10:38:57 PM · #23
My vote goes to either 2 or 3.

I would probably (hopefully) benefit from I points, but #3 definitely makes the most sense all around.
 12/22/2008 11:53:42 PM · #24
I vote for option 3. As you stated it's a marathon!
 12/23/2008 12:24:36 AM · #25
option 1. I think it worked well this year in keeping it close longer. I think it was a great idea and it is still a great idea.
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